SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

[Joey]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I'm guessing he's probably talking about how on an inside pitch you sometimes may try to swing but an animation kicks in (where your player is dodging the ball) that prevents you from doing so.

In the hundreds of games I've played, I've never once experienced a batter not swinging at a bad pitch when I hit the swing button.

[brewers828]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

This is a great idea. I would also like to see better defensive variation between players - someway of incorporating UZR in the game.

[bukktown]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I would love an "Auto Don't Swing" option based on the players plate discipline rating. So if you swing at a pitch out of the zone, a player with a higher discipline rating might not actually swing all the time (but still swing some of the time), a player with a lower rating would still swing more often (but still take some of the time).

And it would be an option, probably turned off by default. But I know I'm not the only person who finds themselves swinging at bad pitches the player they are controlling would never swing at who would like something like this.

I totally agree. Add the wrinkle that a pitcher with high strikeout rate would override the auto not swing.

[VideoTyrant]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

Yea this is something I have thought about and how it could be implemented beyond simply having the pitcher throw a higher strike ratio to guys that do not walk and a lower strike ratio to guys that do walk a lot as this feels like a cheap way of implementing it. Another cheap way they could implement it is make the balls to high walk rate guys be even more clearly outside the zone than the balls a bad BB player would get this would make it so you can still get the same ball and strike ratio thrown each at bat but give the better hitter an easier chance to walk.

The auto-take override option is an interesting one that I like and maybe it could be tied into the guess pitch feature like say you have your guy sit on curveball, he gets the curveball but its in the dirt and you swing he will take it if he has good discipline.

The hitters eye and reading spin easier with good hitters is also a great way to implement it but obviously would be much harder and take some great designing from the devs that I'm not sure is possible in this generation of games yet.

Maybe another way to mimic this would be to make breaking balls when down in the count versus high strike out rate players appear to be breaking super late and appear to be overly nasty, and guys with great patience make those same breaking balls appear to break very early and be easier to define as breaking balls in the dirt.

Until there is a way to implement a system where better players can read the spin of each pitch or recognize it earlier, then I think any way for the CPU to implement this would have to be in some sort of "cheating" manner, but I'm all for it the more sim the better.

[CMH]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I can side with an auto-take feature being implemented.

That's how I saw it working without affecting everything else in the game. If the game knows for sure it's a ball and the player is very patient, he will not swing if you attempt to swing.

I think that's the most fair way to go about it without angering the crowds.

Whether or not they want to mess with how they go about this if the umpire has a wide zone, I don't know.

[Speedy]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I can side with an auto-take feature being implemented.

That's how I saw it working without affecting everything else in the game. If the game knows for sure it's a ball and the player is very patient, he will not swing if you attempt to swing.

I think that's the most fair way to go about it without angering the crowds.

Whether or not they want to mess with how they go about this if the umpire has a wide zone, I don't know.

I don't agree with this as it gives AI control over the user. I just think for batters which have a better eye that it be noticebly easier to see if the pitch is a ball/strike compared to a hitter which K's at everything.

[CMH]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I don't agree with this as it gives AI control over the user. I just think for batters which have a better eye that it be noticebly easier to see if the pitch is a ball/strike compared to a hitter which K's at everything.

But how do you do that without adding colors to the screen or slowing down pitch speed? I would think that's more of a distraction.

[Skyboxer]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I don't agree with this as it gives AI control over the user. I just think for batters which have a better eye that it be noticebly easier to see if the pitch is a ball/strike compared to a hitter which K's at everything.

Totally agree. No way I want AI to control me. The way I look at it is if I want thier rating/tendencies to come into play I'll play MOM or skip the hitting part and just pitch.

[Speedy]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

But how do you do that without adding colors to the screen or slowing down pitch speed? I would think that's more of a distraction.

Yeh, I thought of this circa MVP 2005...awesome game but too arcady for The Show. I think the devs could really play with this -- where for a curve you could really see the "dot" and the spin for a guy like Chipper and for someone like Francoeur all you would see is a baseball spinning.

But I'm not creative or anything...if The Show could implement some way to really make pitch recognition realistic it could be revolutionary and other worldly. While the BB/K ratio has a factor in sim results it doesn't have much impact on a user controlled game.

[CMH]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

Totally agree. No way I want AI to control me. The way I look at it is if I want thier rating/tendencies to come into play I'll play MOM or skip the hitting part and just pitch.

Well, it would be an option as everything else already is in the game.

Yeh, I thought of this circa MVP 2005...awesome game but too arcady for The Show. I think the devs could really play with this -- where for a curve you could really see the "dot" and the spin for a guy like Chipper and for someone like Francoeur all you would see is a baseball spinning.

But I'm not creative or anything...if The Show could implement some way to really make pitch recognition realistic it could be revolutionary and other worldly. While the BB/K ratio has a factor in sim results it doesn't have much impact on a user controlled game.

Here's my thing. We want full control but how much of the game is already us placing the results in the game's hand? A lot of it, I think.

We throw pitch but in the end the game decides if it'll hit the strike zone or not. Sure, we have some influence over it, but it's still ratings based.

You swing at pitch but the game decides if you hit a homerun, single or soft chopper to short. Again, we have some influence, but it's still ratings based.

Why not do the same for having a hitter not swing at a pitch? If Eye/Patience is ratings based then it would be the same. We swing but the ratings decide you shouldn't because the pitch is a ball and that particular batter has a great eye.

I personally don't see the difference between all three. But, I do understand why it would be hard to accept the third scenario. I think that if it were introduced years ago, it would be accepted as the norm in a video game. It just takes one development team doing it.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

Well, it would be an option as everything else already is in the game.



Here's my thing. We want full control but how much of the game is already us placing the results in the game's hand? A lot of it, I think.

We throw pitch but in the end the game decides if it'll hit the strike zone or not. Sure, we have some influence over it, but it's still ratings based.

You swing at pitch but the game decides if you hit a homerun, single or soft chopper to short. Again, we have some influence, but it's still ratings based.

Why not do the same for having a hitter not swing at a pitch? If Eye/Patience is ratings based then it would be the same. We swing but the ratings decide you shouldn't because the pitch is a ball and that particular batter has a great eye.

I personally don't see the difference between all three. But, I do understand why it would be hard to accept the third scenario. I think that if it were introduced years ago, it would be accepted as the norm in a video game. It just takes one development team doing it.

I get what you're saying, but I disagree about them all being the same. The first two are a combination of factors.

Where we aim and how we control it (if using the meter) is user dictated. The ratings determine the effectiveness. Classic is more how you describe, but even then the user at least has input.

With hitting, we swing the bat and where we make contact is used in conjunction with ratings to determine the outcome.

The third option is talking about literally taking control from the user. There are so many details that would have to go with it. Even good hitters get fooled, how do you account for this if the swing is locked? What if you're trying to protect the runner? At what point outside the strike zone does it lock? What if the hitter is slumping or hot? These are just a fewscenarios where preventing a swing could be problematic.

If people are fine with that then, hey, to each there own. I have no issues with options if they're made available. I just think there are too many "what ifs" and random occurrences for this to be a viable option. I personally think something similar to older Pitch Recognition features would be a better approach to account for plate presence.

It doesn't have to be bright flashing colors like MVP, but to me, solving for how to approach the visual display is an easier task than solving for the potential of the bat locking up when you don't want it to.

[CMH]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I get what you're saying, but I disagree about them all being the same. The first two are a combination of factors.

Where we aim and how we control it (if using the meter) is user dictated. The ratings determine the effectiveness. Classic is more how you describe, but even then the user at least has input.

With hitting, we swing the bat and where we make contact is used in conjunction with ratings to determine the outcome.

The third option is talking about literally taking control from the user. There are so many details that would have to go with it. Even good hitters get fooled, how do you account for this if the swing is locked? What if you're trying to protect the runner? At what point outside the strike zone does it lock? What if the hitter is slumping or hot? These are just a fewscenarios where preventing a swing could be problematic.

If people are fine with that then, hey, to each there own. I have no issues with options if they're made available. I just think there are too many "what ifs" and random occurrences for this to be a viable option. I personally think something similar to older Pitch Recognition features would be a better approach to account for plate presence.

It doesn't have to be bright flashing colors like MVP, but to me, solving for how to approach the visual display is an easier task than solving for the potential of the bat locking up when you don't want it to.

It wouldn't happen all the time just because a guy has a good eye. I thought the overall idea was for it to happen on a very obvious ball that the user just haphazardly swung at.

My issue with having something like "better recognition of the spin of the ball" is that you're basically also taking something away from the user by only making it possible to read the spin with some hitters and not others.

Why bump up the quality of the seams of the ball and then say: Only good hitters can see this.

I would think that upping the quality of the ball should be something all developers would work on no matter pitch recognition or eye or anything. It should just happen because graphics say it should.

One thing that has not been mentioned is how MLB 2K10 went about this.

Guys with good eyes will a lot of the time (not all the time) have the strike zone flash to show where a pitch was headed.

So if a pitch was going to be outside, the outside part of the strike zone would flash quickly, and instantly your eyes went to that part of the plate. That focus on the outer part made it easier for the user to read ball or strike.

If we're going with visual indicators, that was my favorite in a video game. Never liked the MVP approach, especially considering that I'm color blind.

[Blzer]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

Another option would be to give players their own "strike zone," or what they think is a strike or good looking to them rather. But instead of making a defined border like this game has, it would be one that has a gray area like All Star Baseball had in its later years. That way those free swingers would have a larger looking zone and a larger gray area, and more patient hitters would have a more defined looking strike zone.

That would be a nice happy medium, I'd say.

[AtlBraves09]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

What if they were to have a hitter's eye feature kind of like the one that was in the All-Star baseball series. It showed a small icon inside or out of the strike zone showing where the ball was starting, it was your job as a user to recognize the pitch and tell whether it was going to break out of the zone or not. Or, use guess pitch the way it is but do not tip off the pitch until the pitcher resleases it if you guessed correctly. Just a few ideas, don't know if or how they would work...

[Skyboxer]

Re: SCEA needs to find a way to mimic hitters with patience/good eyes

I sort of liked the feature in MVP that had the ball a certain color in the pitchers hand that gave away the type of pitch coming.