Previews of Top 10 at each position?

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

We all know Hanley is a horrible defender. But his speed contact and power are all way better then alexeis. So their for Hanley takes 3 out of 4 in the all around catagory. Alexi is a horrible base stealer 13 steals with 8 caught stolen is trash. Then his average and power doesn't come close to hanleys. Theirfore Hanley is a better all around player.

Ok, first of all, you can't just say "He takes 3 of 4 in categories". Comparing baseball players doesn't work like that. Every stat is not equal to every other stat, and comparing "categories won" does not take in account of how much a margin of difference there is.

If you think Reyes is 3rd, and Alexei is 4th, ok, fine. Not a big deal. I didn't say Alexei was way better than Reyes, I think they are very close (considering Reyes is regressing, and Alexei is improving), and I give Alexei the nod due to what I just said, Reyes regressing and Alexei improving. Reyes put up about HALF the WAR he did 2006-2008. Alexei, on the other hand, is trending up every year, going from 0.9, 2.2, 3.8. Alexei was the better player in 2010, and I think it's fair to say that since they are both trending in opposite directions, that Alexei is just about to, or just has overtaken Reyes.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Yeah i get your point, im just saying you cant knock off a whole point of the ERA that's alot...

Probably not now-a-days, it has to be adjusted, in the past you could I would say. But easily these aces drop a half a point like nothing. I was just using the 1-ERA thing because it is still used as reference. Obviously with this discussion we can tell it needs to be adjusted.

CC and Halladay proved it... CC can not keep it below 3.18 in the AL East (which is great for that division)... yet his stint with the Brewers saw a torrid 1.65 and lowered his overall ERA that year to 2.70, in which it was 3.83 in the AL.

And I believe Lester is still a better pitcher than a few of those guys in the original top ten list done in this thread. And Buchholz having a 2.33 ERA and only giving up 9 HRs in the AL East IMO is just masterful.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

If your trying to say Alexei is better then Reyes that is really biased of you.....Everyone knows he isn't. Look at Reyes's stats when he was healthy...Alexei doesn't touch him.

Lol, how can you say a statsheet I just posted proving that Alexei was better in 2010 is biased of me? I can assure you I am NOT the webmaster at Fangraphs. Those are numbers, and numbers that show that Alexei was better in 2010.

[Curyy94]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Ok, first of all, you can't just say "He takes 3 of 4 in categories". Comparing baseball players doesn't work like that. Every stat is not equal to every other stat, and comparing "categories won" does not take in account of how much a margin of difference there is.

If you think Reyes is 3rd, and Alexei is 4th, ok, fine. Not a big deal. I didn't say Alexei was way better than Reyes, I think they are very close (considering Reyes is regressing, and Alexei is improving), and I give Alexei the nod due to what I just said, Reyes regressing and Alexei improving. Reyes put up about HALF the WAR he did 2006-2008. Alexei, on the other hand, is trending up every year, going from 0.9, 2.2, 3.8. Alexei was the better player in 2010, and I think it's fair to say that since they are both trending in opposite directions, that Alexei is just about to, or just has overtaken Reyes.

Alexei will never impact the game like reyes....Reyes is a dynamic lead of hitter and a game changer. Alexei is not a game changer and never will be. If Reyes stays healthy I gurantee he puts up better stats than Alexei. Their not close....after Hanley, Tulo, and Reyes who are great, their is a huge GAP in shortstops.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Probably not now-a-days, it has to be adjusted, in the past you could I would say. But easily these aces drop a half a point like nothing.

CC and Halladay proved it... CC can not keep it below 3.18 in the AL East (which is great for that division)... yet his stint with the Brewers saw a torrid 1.65 and lowered his overall ERA that year to 2.70, in which it was 3.83 in the AL.

And I believe Lester is still a better pitcher than a few of those guys in the original top ten list done in this thread. And Buchholz having a 2.33 ERA in the AL East IMO is just dominating.

Generally, I go with a .30-.50 ERA change from AL to NL. Now if you are talking AL East to NL West, I would say a .50-.75 change can happen, but there is no way anything more than .75 can be EXPECTED. It can happen, but I would attribute that to the pitcher improving more than I would the league difference.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Generally, I go with a .30-.50 ERA change from AL to NL. Now if you are talking AL East to NL West, I would say a .50-.75 change can happen, but there is no way anything more than .75 can be EXPECTED. It can happen, but I would attribute that to the pitcher improving more than I would the league difference.

That is fair.

[Curyy94]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Lol, how can you say a statsheet I just posted proving that Alexei was better in 2010 is biased of me? I can assure you I am NOT the webmaster at Fangraphs. Those are numbers, and numbers that show that Alexei was better in 2010.

I gurantee if every team in the league has a choice beetween alexei and Reyes. It would be Reyes

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

Alexei will never impact the game like reyes....Reyes is a dynamic lead of hitter and a game changer. Alexei is not a game changer and never will be. If Reyes stays healthy I gurantee he puts up better stats than Alexei. Their not close....after Hanley, Tulo, and Reyes who are great, their is a huge GAP in shortstops.

I don't know of any other way to prove you wrong that showing the stats that suggest Alexei had a better season, and likely will again in 2011 due to their trends. I think you are just too enamored by the fact that Reyes is a leadoff hitter and speedster, and it's hard to respect a defensive master. If you want, I can post some highlights of Alexei and his INSANE range he has to go along with his great arm.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

I gurantee if every team in the league has a choice beetween alexei and Reyes. It would be Reyes

Unless they value defense and contracts. Reyes will be making $11M next year, while Alexei will make $2.75M. I don't see Reyes being 4x better than Alexei in 2011, especially when he was inferior in 2010.

[Curyy94]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

I don't know of any other way to prove you wrong that showing the stats that suggest Alexei had a better season, and likely will again in 2011 due to their trends. I think you are just too enamored by the fact that Reyes is a leadoff hitter and speedster, and it's hard to respect a defensive master. If you want, I can post some highlights of Alexei and his INSANE range he has to go along with his great arm.

I mean Joey votto had a better 2010 than pujols so obviously he must be better. Because pujols technically regressed and voto progressed. So by what your saying, you must beleive that votta is better than pujols and vlad guerrero is better then ryan braun.( since guerrero progressed and Braun regressed)

alright so in your world, vlad is better then braun, alexei is better then reyes, and votta is better then pujols.

alright then..

[AtlBraves09]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

I don't know of any other way to prove you wrong that showing the stats that suggest Alexei had a better season, and likely will again in 2011 due to their trends. I think you are just too enamored by the fact that Reyes is a leadoff hitter and speedster, and it's hard to respect a defensive master. If you want, I can post some highlights of Alexei and his INSANE range he has to go along with his great arm.

- Reyes was injured for most of 09 and was battling nagging issues in 10. I think at 27 years old, its unfair to say hes on the decline, and definitely unfair to compare the two players years in 10. While I do agree with you that he is a gifted defender, I don't think that he has the tools that Reyes and Tulo have. Nor does the have the offensive weapons that Hanley has.

[Curyy94]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

- Reyes was injured for most of 09 and was battling nagging issues in 10. I think at 27 years old, its unfair to say hes on the decline, and definitely unfair to compare the two players years in 10. While I do agree with you that he is a gifted defender, I don't think that he has the tools that Reyes and Tulo have. Nor does the have the offensive weapons that Hanley has.

and most importantly he's not a game changer. Players like Hanley, Tulo, and Reyes are...

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

I mean Joey votto had a better 2010 than pujols so obviously he must be better. Because pujols technically regressed and voto progressed. So by what your saying, you must beleive that votta is better than pujols and vlad guerrero is better then ryan braun.( since guerrero progressed and Braun regressed)

alright so in your world, vlad is better then braun, alexei is better then reyes, and votta is better then pujols.

alright then..

I wouldn't say that Pujols and Votto are too far off at all. I would probably give a slight nod to Pujols since he didn't regress because of injury, so it is much easier for him to bounce back and have another MVP year. Reyes got injured and then had an average year, showing that the injury may have actually effected him. But I really don't think Pujols and Votto are too far off at all. Pujols just had his 2nd straight year of regression, while Votto has improved each of the past 3 years.

I don't get where the Vlad vs. Bruan thing is coming from. Braun only had 1 year of regression (which doesn't constitute a trend), and it was still considerably better than Vlad who only had 1 year of improvement (again, not a trend) after 5 years of regression, yes 5 years. So that one makes no sense at all actually.

[Curyy94]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

I wouldn't say that Pujols and Votto are too far off at all. I would probably give a slight nod to Pujols since he didn't regress because of injury, so it is much easier for him to bounce back and have another MVP year. Reyes got injured and then had an average year, showing that the injury may have actually effected him. But I really don't think Pujols and Votto are too far off at all. Pujols just had his 2nd straight year of regression, while Votto has improved each of the past 3 years.

I don't get where the Vlad vs. Bruan thing is coming from. Braun only had 1 year of regression (which doesn't constitute a trend), and it was still considerably better than Vlad who only had 1 year of improvement (again, not a trend) after 5 years of regression, yes 5 years. So that one makes no sense at all actually.

Exactly i was proving a point!! Your logic makes no sense! You understand now yes!!

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

- Reyes was injured for most of 09 and was battling nagging issues in 10. I think at 27 years old, its unfair to say hes on the decline, and definitely unfair to compare the two players years in 10. While I do agree with you that he is a gifted defender, I don't think that he has the tools that Reyes and Tulo have. Nor does the have the offensive weapons that Hanley has.

Tulo and Hanley are not in the discussion because they are both vastly superior to Alexei, even Hanley, despite his defensive shortcomings.

And yes, Reyes was injured in 2009, but his 2010 could very well indicate that this could be a nagging injury that will never go away. It's unlikely to expect him to return to 2008 all the sudden.