Previews of Top 10 at each position?

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  • JoeCoolMan24
    MVP
    • Jul 2005
    • 1255

    #91
    Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

    Originally posted by Curyy94
    Exactly i was proving a point!! Your logic makes no sense! You understand now yes!!
    What? You proved nothing. Bruan vs. Vlad is NOTHING like Reyes vs. Alexei.

    Vlad is going to be 36 years old. Alexei is 29.

    Bruan put up a BETTER WAR in 2010 than Vlad did.
    Reyes DID NOT put up a better WAR in 2010 than Alexei (or 2009 for that matter)

    Comment

    • Curyy94
      Banned
      • Dec 2010
      • 86

      #92
      Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

      Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24
      Tulo and Hanley are not in the discussion because they are both vastly superior to Alexei, even Hanley, despite his defensive shortcomings.

      And yes, Reyes was injured in 2009, but his 2010 could very well indicate that this could be a nagging injury that will never go away. It's unlikely to expect him to return to 2008 all the sudden.
      Too be fair I think Reyes at 80% would be better then Alexei at 100%

      Comment

      • Curyy94
        Banned
        • Dec 2010
        • 86

        #93
        Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

        Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24
        What? You proved nothing. Bruan vs. Vlad is NOTHING like Reyes vs. Alexei.

        Vlad is going to be 36 years old. Alexei is 29.

        Bruan put up a BETTER WAR in 2010 than Vlad did.
        Reyes DID NOT put up a better WAR in 2010 than Alexei (or 2009 for that matter)
        Then stop contradicting your self....choose a arguement and stick with it mr. votto is better then pujols and alexei is the next jeter.

        Comment

        • JermaineDye05
          Rookie
          • Dec 2008
          • 408

          #94
          Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

          Originally posted by Curyy94
          and most importantly he's not a game changer. Players like Hanley, Tulo, and Reyes are...
          I don't know what you would define as a game changer, but Alexei is pretty clutch. I think you're shortselling him.

          His average only gets better with men on base. He's a .361 hitter with the bases loaded.

          Comment

          • JoeCoolMan24
            MVP
            • Jul 2005
            • 1255

            #95
            Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

            Originally posted by Curyy94
            Then stop contradicting your self....choose a arguement and stick with it mr. votto is better then pujols and alexei is the next jeter.
            Contradicting what?

            Look here....

            Alexei's WAR....
            0.9, 2.2, 3.8

            Reyes WAR...
            6.0, 0.9, 2.8

            Notice how Alexei's numbers are GOING UP, while Reyes numbers are GOING DOWN (I understand 2.8 is higher than 0.9, but 2009 was injury filled year. That 0.9 is actually about a 3.8 in a full season)

            Last year, Alexei's trend took him ABOVE Reyes.

            Vlad's WAR...
            2.6, 0.8, 2.6

            Bruan's WAR...
            4.6, 4.9, 4.2

            Yes, Bruan's went down for 1 year, and Vlad's went up for 1 year, but they are still NO WHERE CLOSE. Braun's 2010 WAR is still VASTLY better than Vlad's, regardless of Bruan's declining while Vlad's increased. That's why your comparison makes no sense because I am showing you two guys who actually crossed paths in, and now one is above the other. Your comparison is NOT the same thing, as Braun is STILL much better than Vlad. They never switched places. Vlad never had a better year than Bruan.

            Comment

            • Jgainsey
              I can't feel it
              • Mar 2007
              • 3362

              #96
              Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

              Originally posted by JermaineDye05
              His UZR last year was -10.2 while Alexei's was 10.8. Pretty close.
              Singling out a player's UZR rating for one year is a terrible way to go about winning an argument. I'm sure most of us who know anything about UZR, or most advanced fielding stats for that matter, would tell you that you need a much larger sample size before you can come close to being accurate.

              Just look at Alexi in '08. He posted a -7.0 in 117 games started at 2B. So could I argue that he's a below average second baseman, yet an exceptional SS...? Of course not. But using the logic you've shown here, apparently I could.

              I'm not saying that I disagree with all of your points up to this point, because obviously Alexi is a better fielder than the others players that the guys you're arguing with have brought up. Though I think you're probably overvaluing his defense(as well as his UZR) while ignoring the much higher ceilings of the players you're comparing him too.

              Just me 2 cents..
              Now, more than ever

              Comment

              • Curyy94
                Banned
                • Dec 2010
                • 86

                #97
                Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24
                Contradicting what?

                Look here....

                Alexei's WAR....
                0.9, 2.2, 3.8

                Reyes WAR...
                6.0, 0.9, 2.8

                Notice how Alexei's numbers are GOING UP, while Reyes numbers are GOING DOWN (I understand 2.8 is higher than 0.9, but 2009 was injury filled year. That 0.9 is actually about a 3.8 in a full season)

                Last year, Alexei's trend took him ABOVE Reyes.

                Vlad's WAR...
                2.6, 0.8, 2.6

                Bruan's WAR...
                4.6, 4.9, 4.2

                Yes, Bruan's went down for 1 year, and Vlad's went up for 1 year, but they are still NO WHERE CLOSE. Braun's 2010 WAR is still VASTLY better than Vlad's, regardless of Bruan's declining while Vlad's increased. That's why your comparison makes no sense because I am showing you two guys who actually crossed paths in, and now one is above the other. Your comparison is NOT the same thing, as Braun is STILL much better than Vlad. They never switched places. Vlad never had a better year than Bruan.
                I'm just going to argue like you do...

                Luis Castillo is better then Chase Utley because he struck out less

                thats essentially what your doing with this WAR crap.

                Comment

                • JoeCoolMan24
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 1255

                  #98
                  Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                  Originally posted by Curyy94
                  I'm just going to argue like you do...

                  Luis Castillo is better then Chase Utley because he struck out less

                  thats essentially what your doing with this WAR crap.


                  Well, obviously you don't know what WAR means. I feel like I just wasted an hour of my life arguing to someone who doesn't even the same language.

                  Comment

                  • Curyy94
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 86

                    #99
                    Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                    Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24


                    Well, obviously you don't know what WAR means. I feel like I just wasted an hour of my life arguing to someone who doesn't even the same language.
                    obviously you don't watch baseball....you actually think Alexei is on the same level as reyes, when he is not even close and probably never willl be to be honest. You wasted your time on this? I type fast so this is just a little thing on the side i did...

                    Comment

                    • JoeCoolMan24
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 1255

                      #100
                      Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                      Originally posted by Jgainsey
                      Singling out a player's UZR rating for one year is a terrible way to go about winning an argument. I'm sure most of us who know anything about UZR, or most advanced fielding stats for that matter, would tell you that you need a much larger sample size before you can come close to being accurate.

                      Just look at Alexi in '08. He posted a -7.0 in 117 games started at 2B. So could I argue that he's a below average second baseman, yet an exceptional SS...? Of course not. But using the logic you've shown here, apparently I could.

                      I'm not saying that I disagree with all of your points up to this point, because obviously Alexi is a better fielder than the others players that the guys you're arguing with have brought up. Though I think you're probably overvaluing his defense(as well as his UZR) while ignoring the much higher ceilings of the players you're comparing him too.

                      Just me 2 cents..
                      You are right. 1 year of UZR is not definitive, but comparing Alexei's 2B UZR to his SS UZR is not fair though. He was a SS his whole life in Cuba, and was asked to play 2B (as well as CF), two positions he never played before. Then in 2009 he moved back to his natural spot at SS. Then, prior to 2010, the Sox brought in Omar Vizquel to mention Alexei on his defense, and the results were glaring. And that's not an "after the fact" statement. It was said up front prior to 2010 that Omar was there to be a bench player, and to mentor Alexei.

                      And Hanley was never a good defender in his career. He had some average seasons sandwiched in between awful years. So in this case, I think Hanley is pretty much you see. Alexei could fall of the face of the Earth and regress to a bad defensive SS, but I just don't see that happening.

                      Comment

                      • JoeCoolMan24
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 1255

                        #101
                        Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                        Originally posted by Curyy94
                        obviously you don't watch baseball....you actually think Alexei is on the same level as reyes, when he is not even close and probably never willl be to be honest. You wasted your time on this? I type fast so this is just a little thing on the side i did...
                        Ok, see you are just trying to insult me now by saying I don't watch baseball. Saying you don't know what WAR means is not something to be embarassed about. Most casual fans have never even heard of it, let alone know what it entails. If you don't know what WAR or UZR or the like are, then that's perfectly ok. I highly suggest heading over to fangraphs.com and reading up on those types of stats, but it's not a mainstream set of stats yet.

                        And yes, I did spend time on this. I type fast, but I was also looking up a lot of stats and figures and comparing things to analyze the situation and not just saying "ALEXEI MAKES SO MUCH IMPACT, HE IS AWESOME". Data and facts support an argument, not opinions.

                        Comment

                        • Curyy94
                          Banned
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 86

                          #102
                          Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                          Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24
                          Ok, see you are just trying to insult me now by saying I don't watch baseball. Saying you don't know what WAR means is not something to be embarassed about. Most casual fans have never even heard of it, let alone know what it entails. If you don't know what WAR or UZR or the like are, then that's perfectly ok. I highly suggest heading over to fangraphs.com and reading up on those types of stats, but it's not a mainstream set of stats yet.

                          And yes, I did spend time on this. I type fast, but I was also looking up a lot of stats and figures and comparing things to analyze the situation and not just saying "ALEXEI MAKES SO MUCH IMPACT, HE IS AWESOME". Data and facts support an argument, not opinions.
                          im not trying to insult you, im sorry if i did. The point is that yes Alexei is a good player, i wouldn't mind having him on my team. But reyes is one of those special players you can't compare alexei too....i just dont think their close in general let alone alexei being better.

                          is like this i think reyes is better then tulo but if you say tulo is better then reyes im fine with it, because their comparable. i just dont feel reyes and alexei are.

                          Comment

                          • JoeCoolMan24
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2005
                            • 1255

                            #103
                            Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                            Originally posted by Curyy94
                            im not trying to insult you, im sorry if i did. The point is that yes Alexei is a good player, i wouldn't mind having him on my team. But reyes is one of those special players you can't compare alexei too....i just dont think their close in general let alone alexei being better.

                            is like this i think reyes is better then tulo but if you say tulo is better then reyes im fine with it, because their comparable. i just dont feel reyes and alexei are.
                            You think Reyes is better than Tulo?

                            Ok, I'll save this one for someone else. lol, I'm going to go play The Show, and hit Reyes right in the head.

                            Comment

                            • JermaineDye05
                              Rookie
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 408

                              #104
                              Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                              Originally posted by Curyy94
                              im not trying to insult you, im sorry if i did. The point is that yes Alexei is a good player, i wouldn't mind having him on my team. But reyes is one of those special players you can't compare alexei too....i just dont think their close in general let alone alexei being better.

                              is like this i think reyes is better then tulo but if you say tulo is better then reyes im fine with it, because their comparable. i just dont feel reyes and alexei are.
                              I think you're letting the name and the uniform get to you a bit. Watch Alexei play. Watch some of his highlights from this past season and tell me that he doesn't change a game.

                              Comment

                              • Curyy94
                                Banned
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 86

                                #105
                                Re: Previews of Top 10 at each position?

                                Originally posted by JoeCoolMan24
                                You think Reyes is better than Tulo?

                                Ok, I'll save this one for someone else. lol, I'm going to go play The Show, and hit Reyes right in the head.
                                thats fine with me haha.

                                Comment

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