Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I've been wanting them to increase the amount of batting attributes for awhile, I don't think they are going to add more attributes. The game is far off from where you (and I) would like it to be. There is no way for the current batting attributes to faithfully recreate a hitter than has a low average but always makes contact. There are definitely issues.

I think they will only be tweaking their current system that is in place. Even though adding a bunch more attributes might yield more realistic results, finding ways to tweak the current system to play pretty close to realistic would be the way to go. Lowering opposite field power based on a % is a good start and would accurately represent most hitters. Even the hitters that aren't represented perfectly would still be pretty close to their real life counterparts.

As I've said before, I think one of the best ways to make pull hitters pull hitters is to increase swing speed, which would actually make it difficult to time your swing and be able to hit the ball the other way. And, make inside out swingers' swings slower. On a swing that you would hit the ball to right field with Freddie Sanchez, that same swing would result in Carlos Pena pulling the pitch since their swing speeds are different.

One thing that is certain is that opposite field power on inside pitches is completely unrealistic and that's the first thing that needs to be fixed.

[Bobhead]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I've been wanting them to increase the amount of batting attributes for awhile, I don't think they are going to add more attributes. The game is far off from where you (and I) would like it to be. There is no way for the current batting attributes to faithfully recreate a hitter than has a low average but always makes contact. There are definitely issues.

There is. High Plate Vision, low Contact.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

[ChernoTheInferno]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Brett Gardner hit an opposite field home run in Kansas City in my first RttS with standard sliders. I was the left fielder and it wasn't even one of those leaping catch chances, it was a straight up home run trot animation home run. That's how I know the batting is a little off. I love Gardner, but he is never hitting an opposite field home run in his life. Ever. Opposite field power is too easy in this game.

[Bobhead]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Brett Gardner hit an opposite field home run in Kansas City in my first RttS with standard sliders. I was the left fielder and it wasn't even one of those leaping catch chances, it was a straight up home run trot animation home run. That's how I know the batting is a little off. I love Gardner, but he is never hitting an opposite field home run in his life. Ever. Opposite field power is too easy in this game.

THIS is wrong. Desmond Jennings hit an opposite field shot a few weeks ago in real life, and he's even scrawnier than Gardner. I guess those real life physics are a little off too, better call God up and tell him to fix it in 2012. Opposite field home runs are not that difficult. They aren't even the most difficult type of home run, that title goes to center shots. All it takes is good swing mechanics, and anyone can hit a home run, given enough chances.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

There is. High Plate Vision, low Contact.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

Contact sets the size of the PCI. The lower the contact, the harder it is to make contact. Hitters with low averages have low contact ratings.

[ChernoTheInferno]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

THIS is wrong. Desmond Jennings hit an opposite field shot a few weeks ago in real life, and he's even scrawnier than Gardner. I guess those real life physics are a little off too, better call God up and tell him to fix it in 2012. Opposite field home runs are not that difficult. They aren't even the most difficult type of home run, that title goes to center shots. All it takes is good swing mechanics, and anyone can hit a home run, given enough chances.

Jennings has a bit more power at this point in his career. Being skinny or buff doesn't suggest lacking strength. Curtis Granderson is a stick figure who hits the ball a mile. Brett Gardner...not so much. The day he hits a home run to center or the opposite field I will eat my hat. Gardner just doesn't have power, and he doesn't hit the ball the other way much anyways. That event was wrong on so many levels when it happened in the game.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Contact sets the size of the PCI. The lower the contact, the harder it is to make contact. Hitters with low averages have low contact ratings.

Both vision and contact attributes appear to affect the PCI size, roughly similarly (see attached pics; from top to bottom, max vision, min vision, max contact, min contact, while all other attributes are fixed except player size which I forgot to normalize...). But it's been said there is a larger "invisible" oval around the visible PCI that indicates "foul" zone.

Given the vision attribute doesn't have a strong effect on batting average, a higher batting average is likely a result of better quality hits like line drives (something the contact attribute mostly dictates), not just the PCI size.

So to create a very good contact hitter with a low batting average, you would still want to have a high vision, low contact rating player.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Both vision and contact attributes appear to affect the PCI size, roughly similarly (see attached pics; from top to bottom, max vision, min vision, max contact, min contact, while all other attributes are fixed except player size which I forgot to normalize...). But it's been said there is a larger "invisible" oval around the visible PCI that indicates "foul" zone.

Given the vision attribute doesn't have a strong effect on batting average, a higher batting average is likely a result of better quality hits like line drives (something the contact attribute mostly dictates), not just the PCI size.

So to create a very good contact hitter with a low batting average, you would still want to have a high vision, low contact rating player.

You're right. I did a test myself (no contact - max vision, no vision - max contact, and no contact - no vision). Both attributes have an effect on PCI size. And, vision actually has more of an effect on PCI than contact as the "no contact - max vision" PCI was bigger than the "no vision - max contact" PCI. It seems odd that both attributes are affecting the PCI size. I would think one attribute would set the PCI size, and the other attribute would dictate the probability of solidly hitting the ball. So, a "max contact - no vision" hitter would have a huge PCI but rarely make solid contact. At least that what would make sense to me.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

THIS is wrong. Desmond Jennings hit an opposite field shot a few weeks ago in real life, and he's even scrawnier than Gardner. I guess those real life physics are a little off too, better call God up and tell him to fix it in 2012. Opposite field home runs are not that difficult. They aren't even the most difficult type of home run, that title goes to center shots. All it takes is good swing mechanics, and anyone can hit a home run, given enough chances.

Gardner doesn't try and hit opposite field homers, he doesn't try to put ball in the air. Likes to keep it low, only homers I've hit was two to the short porch in Yankee Stadium.

[moemoe24]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Something needs to be done to make a distinction between pull hitters and spray hitters, as well as guys with or without power to the opposite field.

The latter issue is the more significant one. It's too easy to go deep the other way while hitting, and while pitching it takes away from the strategy. You should be able to pitch away to most guys without having to worry about giving up an opposite field HR.

Off the top of my head I think a good addition might be to add two hitter attributes: 1. contact to the opposite field, and 2. power to the opposite field. Just like how they have splits for versus left and right, just add one underneath for opposite field that would cover the opposite field gap to the opposite field foul line.

So for power hitters who mainly pull all their HRs, their "power to the opposite field" would be low, and when you're up at the plate with that hitter you'd want to try to pull everything when trying to go deep. And then some guys might be good spray hitters with some pull power, so they'd have a high "contact to the opposite field" but slightly lower "power to the opposite field" so as to better represent their true ability.

Making a distinction between these types of hitters would both look and feel a lot more realistic.

I was getting ready to post this exact thing about a week ago but never got around to it. Home runs oppo are way too prevalent in this game. It's always been an issue but this year more so than in the past.

Even guys with the power to do it rarely do it in real life. If a guy hits 30 hr's my guess is maybe 6 or 7 go the opposite way to right center and maybe 1 or 2 go to dead right. I have nelly Cruz with 28 hr's and I bet over half are to dead right field. Endy Chavez hit one the other night for me and irl he would not have the power to do that.

Definitely need to look at this for next yr.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Nelson Cruz has sprayed the ball to all fields except for HRs this year. Only three the opposite way. (All spray charts from MLB or Fox are home stadium - can't do all stadiums).



Jose Bautista hit 54 bombs last year and almost all of them were pull shots.

[moemoe24]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

What i meant was, im playing my season with texas and i have 28 hr with cruz. He has 28 irl too so that is one example of the realism. However, as you showed in your graph he doesnt hit many hr to rf. In my game half of them are to rf. Thats way too many.

[moemoe24]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Ian kinsler is a perfect example. Ive watched lots of ranger games this year and i dont think hes hit any hr to right field....he's a dead pull homerun hitter. He has no power rf so in the show kinsler shouldnt he able to hit oppo hr consistently, which he does for me.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

What i meant was, im playing my season with texas and i have 28 hr with cruz. He has 28 irl too so that is one example of the realism. However, as you showed in your graph he doesnt hit many hr to rf. In my game half of them are to rf. Thats way too many.

Wouldn't this be a timing issue more so on your part?

And if you want the game makers to artificially add something for this, wouldn't people complain about them not having total control of hitting (like they do all the time), and that the game is rolling the dice on where the hit goes?

I am just asking because I can already see the arguments when there is a "feeling" of not being in total control anymore... and you swinging late is producing a pull hit or the like. Or that your great bat placement on the ball that is producing these HRs to opposite field (due to your later swing and ball placement) will be complained about if the game "softens" it on purpose with seemingly perfect contact in the swing analysis.

A never ending cycle IMO.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

What i meant was, im playing my season with texas and i have 28 hr with cruz. He has 28 irl too so that is one example of the realism. However, as you showed in your graph he doesnt hit many hr to rf. In my game half of them are to rf. Thats way too many.

I agree. That's why I posted the chart to show what you are experiencing isn't realistic.

Wouldn't this be a timing issue more so on your part?

And if you want the game makers to artificially add something for this, wouldn't people complain about them not having total control of hitting (like they do all the time), and that the game is rolling the dice on where the hit goes?

It's both a timing and realism issue. The pitch speed in the Show is too fast imo. Most baseball gamers are too late on the fastball and it results in far too many baseballs being hit to the opposite field. But if moemoe's timing is off, that's fine. Let Cruz hit the ball the opposite way but tone down the power so we don't see as many HRs.

It is a tricky issue but there are a few ways to fix it.
One: tone down the power to the opposite field and add it as a rating.

Two: slow down the pitch speed - I can't slow it down enough with the Show at 0. Having only a 10 point slider system is ridiculous imo. We should be able to tweak it to our liking. To compensate for slower pitch speed lower the contact. Baseball games always seem to program success as to whether you can simply make contact - that's not realistic. It's quality of contact and pull power > push power.

To keep guys from just pitching to the outside corner you should allow your player to set up normal or cheat to get better coverage on the inside or outside part of the plate. This would add more strategy and still allow outside pitches to be pulled for HRs (which is absolutely correct and the Show does a pretty good job with imo).

Three: add a batter's eye mechanic. I think this really rewards the batter's that have a good eye and take walks in the game rather than just raw power. It was good in MVP and 2K. The Show needs to add it. Guess pitch is too much of a gimmick in that it works 100% of the time if you guess it correctly and it does not take into account batter or pitcher ratings. Recognizing the pitch type will improve the timing and make pull shots easier.

It's very possible to fix this although this is not how most baseball games have ever been done. Most baseball games are programmed to have the fastball being blown past the hitter (rather than just a swing and miss) and simply making contact to the opposite field is a win.