Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

[nemesis04]

Hi guys, I am trying to gather as much info as possible about the analog controls that debuted in the Show 11, with the goal to make them even better for 12! Please use the following format to talk about which analog mode(s) you would like to offer suggestions that would help enhance or improve your overall analog experience:


Analog Mode: Hitting, Pitching or Fielding

Biggest obstacle when using this particular mode:

Any improvements to the mechanic that could help overcome the above obstacle:

Anything you feel is missing or needs to be taken away from the mechanic to make it function better:

If applicable, is the visual feedback/graphics ample when using this mechanic. If not what is lacking or needs to be changed?

Are there any tutorials or practice modes you feel that are needed or changed to gain a better understanding of the mechanic?

Misc: Please add any additional information you feel is pertinent to this mode!

Thanks!

[DJ]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Hi guys, I am trying to gather as much info as possible about the analog controls that debuted in the Show 11, with the goal to make them even better for 12! Please use the following format to talk about which analog mode(s) you would like to offer suggestions that would help enhance or improve your overall analog experience:


Analog Mode: Hitting, Pitching or Fielding

Biggest obstacle when using this particular mode:

Any improvements to the mechanic that could help overcome the above obstacle:

Anything you feel is missing or needs to be taken away from the mechanic to make it function better:

If applicable, is the visual feedback/graphics ample when using this mechanic. If not what is lacking or needs to be changed?

Are there any tutorials or practice modes you feel that are needed or changed to gain a better understanding of the mechanic?

Misc: Please add any additional information you feel is pertinent to this mode!

Thanks!

Mode: Hitting

Biggest Obstacle: Having to push up and to the right or left, depending on pitch location.

Improvements: Eliminate the up-and-side push and just make it a down-and-up mechanic and have the PCI placement be determined by ratings and your stride timing.

I'm good with everything else. Hitting was fun, but I could only find success on the lower difficulties. I still use the pitching and fielding mechanics.

[Blzer]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Analog Mode: Pitching

I'm not sure if I can go exactly by the guidebook's way of asking me to do it, but I wanted to give insight on how I would improve the analog pitching.

Ratings aside, there isn't really anything on the visual front which differentiates pitchers' strong or weak points. In other words, there might be some pitchers who live on the outside and are efficiently good at it, whereas there are other pitchers who have trouble biting corners, but can work well off the plate when necessary; then there are some pitchers who are simply strike throwing machines, whether they hit their spots for not, etc.


What you'll see in this new meter are three variable additions: 1) preset tilt, 2) plate width, 3) corner paint.

Let's take Cliff Lee, for example. He is a dominant pitcher who has good command of all of his pitches, and knows how to work both corners. Let's do a few things with him:

1) For the sake of example, let's say he's pretty good at "living on the outside of the plate." We will redesign the analog pitching interface so that flicking the R-stick straight upward will not invariably hit the center of the plate, but rather it will lean a little more towards the outer part of the plate. This is where you will see "tilt" in the interface.

2) A pitcher who throws more strikes with accuracy should get a good bump in his "plate width." This is the area between those two hash lines on the interface. If it is smaller, it leaves a larger room for error when trying to throw it over the plate. If it is larger, he will have an easier time to throw a ball for a strike. The caveat here, of course, is that people might complain he will throw too many pitches over the heart of the plate. This is where the third tactic comes in...

3) There are some pitchers who are simply good at living on the black. Sometimes they are good at doing it just on the plate, sometimes they are good at doing it just off the plate, and sometimes they can do both. Much like the sliders in this game for Control and Consistency (control says how well pitchers can live on the black for strikes, and consistency says how well pitchers can live on the black for balls), this visual will fall in line with the same thing in mind.

After reading that, I want to present to you two images. The first image will be the pitching meter that we all know, and the second one will be a revision for Cliff Lee specifically:










I would honestly like to make more changes involving the actual width of the meter itself (or the plate width, as this is far more than generous for Mr. Lee, but this is an example without a comparison the other way), though this is just a rough prototypical example of what I'm suggesting here.

So, you see the following things: You see that Lee's plate has been "tilted" a little bit toward the right, making it slightly easier for him to work on the outside portion of the zone with more precision. The next thing that you see is that the plate width was slightly enlarged. I don't want to change it that much in this example with the tilt, because as you can see, he can pretty easily nail strikes all day.

The third portion is to help prevent throwing these strikes over the plate all day, and this is the corner paint aspect. You can see a fading blend on both sides of the plate, and his are quite large. Anything on the inside of the hash is an indicator of the ball somehow hitting the black in some fashion. In other words, if you aim for the outside corner, and hit your cursor into the faded region on the right side of the hash, then his pitch would invariably be over the outside portion of the plate, with the outermost part of the ball hitting the black (meaning it's still an obvious strike, but is nice work on the outside area). If you hit the hash while being right in the middle of the blend, then you'd be painting that black that is nice, precise pitching. Other pitchers will have smaller blend fades than this, and they might be shifted left or right of the hash a little bit. For example, maybe a pitcher has better consistency but worse control. So there will be less blend on the inside part of the zone, but there will be more on the outside part of the zone. And vice versa.

Here might, for example, be the look of another pitcher's meter (in this case, Ryan Madson):





He is ever so slightly offset to the inside, his overall strike zone "plate width" hashes are condensed, and he boasts a little bit of consistency, but not much control. In other words, he doesn't bite the corners for strikes much (he kind of goes after the hitters, and can sometimes get away with missing over the plate with the nasty stuff that he has), but when he goes off the plate, it's not like he's always missing by a foot or so. That's where the little fade comes in, and you can see there is more fade outside of the hash marks than there are inside of the hash marks.

The next thing I'd like to see changed is a variable yellow line, depending on where you set the height of your target. Since the yellow line is supposed to represent your release point on your pitch, it would be nice if it was more accurate to when you literally are releasing the pitch. In other words, the yellow line should be closer to the top of the meter for a higher pitch (since it's an earlier release), and it should be further from the top for a lower pitch.

Here are some visual example of that:








Piggybacking off that idea, it would also be nice to see a top and bottom of the strike zone lined off for us, much like the edges of the strike zone. This could at least make some sort of logical sense to help people understand exactly how their ball moves, etc. Of course, this would all only come together if there was that variable yellow line. Without it, those top and bottom hashes become obsolete.

So anyway, the biggest obstacle with pitching is being able to work with a given pitcher's uniqueness, and dominate the way that he might dominate on the mound. I think that these visual and under-the-hood programming cues would be an excellent improvement for the pitching meter system. Again, I will provide more examples on things that can be worked on here, but this is just a frontal look of it in a nutshell.


On another note entirely…

Still involving analog pitching, I wanted to go over what could be done to help hide the ball cursor with this feature. I kind of posed the question to Ramone and Chris earlier this year, but there wasn’t really an easy remedy to work with when the Ball Cursor option is set to Off or Fade. I think I’ve come up with something that would kind of work, though:

1) Don’t let us see the analog pitching meter until we actually start our pitching motion.
2) Let us see the analog pitching meter upon selection of our pitch, but hide the location of the ball (and, if there is a variable yellow line, hide that as well) until we actually start our pitching motion.

The issue with this was always, “How can we find a way to still make you aim the right stick somewhere while hiding the ball cursor at the same time?” This is probably the best way to do it.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Mode: Hitting

Biggest Obstacle: Having to push up and to the right or left on the same stick for both swinging and PCI location. Also, you don't have full PCI control when analog hitting, which is why I don't use it.

Improvements: Just make the right stick the swing stick and have the left stick for PCI location. Basically Zone hitting but using the right stick to swing instead of the buttons.

---

Mode: Pitching

Biggest Obstacle: It is far to easy to locate (even post-patch) with analog pitching with pitching sliders (pitcher control and consistency) completely zeroed out.

Improvements: Make it a lot harder to hit your spots. Every pitcher feels the same, there is no difference in throwing strikes from a Cliff Lee to a Carlos Marmol. Blzr has a lot of good ideas and how to accomplish this. I also would like see the right stick sensitivity be different based the pitcher's control attributes so a Cliff Lee would have less sensitivity that a Carlos Marmol thus giving the user a smaller margin of error when pitching with Lee compared to Marmol. This is already coded into game through the pitcher consistency slider as it increases/decreases right stick sensitivity when analog pitching so it shouldn't be difficult to add in and make every pitcher different.

---

Mode: Fielding

Biggest Obstacle: It just feels weird to have to press say UP to throw to 2nd base from the outfield. You're pressing in the opposite direction of where you are throwing sometimes.

Improvements: I would like to see it where you have to press towards the base you would like to throw to instead of always pressing straight right for 1st base. For example, a routine grounder to the 2nd baseman you would press to the right and down a bit to throw to 1st because the 2nd baseman is not throwing the ball straight to his right. In the outfield this can be a problem when the OF is lined up to throw to both 2B or 3B from right field, you can simply press the base button (square for 3rd) before throwing with the analog stick. Or like pressing L1 before the throw to lock-in that you are throwing to the cut-off man and not the base.

[nemesis04]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Nice input guys, keep it coming!

[Blzer]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Analog Mode: Fielding

It would be cool if there was a way to pre-load an entire double play sequence. Kind of like the game Skate, you don't perform the flip trick in mid-air, but you have to sequence it before you pop the tail of the board.

In this case, it would be cool to kind of do an R-stick roll from second to first. Or simply, push up on the right analog stick, and roll the stick around three hours clockwise to first base. This can all be done before the infielder even shags the ground ball.

This would be especially important because of the "cancel throw" business. I've surrendered double plays and even lost games because of it.

[LastActionHero]

Analog Mode: Fielding

It would be cool if there was a way to pre-load an entire double play sequence. Kind of like the game Skate, you don't perform the flip trick in mid-air, but you have to sequence it before you pop the tail of the board.

In this case, it would be cool to kind of do an R-stick roll from second to first. Or simply, push up on the right analog stick, and roll the stick around three hours clockwise to first base. This can all be done before the infielder even shags the ground ball.

This would be especially important because of the "cancel throw" business. I've surrendered double plays and even lost games because of it.

Interesting. I like it. Don't know what the best way would be to implement this but it could definitely smoothing out turning double plays!

[Mabster]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Mode: Hitting

Biggest Obstacle: Having to push up and to the right or left, depending on pitch location.

Improvements: Eliminate the up-and-side push and just make it a down-and-up mechanic and have the PCI placement be determined by ratings and your stride timing.

Mode: Hitting

Biggest Obstacle: Having to push up and to the right or left on the same stick for both swinging and PCI location. Also, you don't have full PCI control when analog hitting, which is why I don't use it.

Improvements: Just make the right stick the swing stick and have the left stick for PCI location. Basically Zone hitting but using the right stick to swing instead of the buttons.

I want to echo these two posts but instead of on/off or this/that, give the same options that are present with button hitting, i.e. Analog Zone, Analog Timing.

[Bobhead]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

I want to echo these two posts but instead of on/off or this/that, give the same options that are present with button hitting, i.e. Analog Zone, Analog Timing.

This, this, and also this. By the way I like this.

[nomo17k]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Analog Mode: Hitting

Biggest obstacle when using this particular mode:

(1) The analog response for swinging is definitely slower than button (timing/zone). It's expected given you have to move the stick more than you press the button, but this makes it much harder to turn to high/inside pitches. (On the other hand, check swinging is great... so I'd wish to see quicker response without compromising the check swing sensitivity.)

(2) It's so easy to inadvertently "complete" the check swing on slower pitches like curve ball. What I'm talking about is when I intend to swing on a curveball, the hitter doesn't swing (this has been discussed a couple times earlier in the year) but just twitches and does check swing. What causes it is... well let me explain: when the stride is made by pulling R3 down, on a faster pitch, the next motion would be pushing R3 up quickly so the hitter swings normally. On a curve ball (or some other slower pitch), however, in order to stay back R3 stick needs to stay down a bit longer. What often happens is that when holding R3 by thumb, I tend to make slight upward movement which ends up "completing" a check swing. So when I actually push up R3, the interface thinks the swing has already completed and doesn't actually commit to the curveball. I'm still trying to adjust to this but I still have this problem quite often.

Any improvements to the mechanic that could help overcome the above obstacle: Not knowing how things are exactly coded, I don't know how best things can be achieved... but hopefully I explained the issues well enough above to help improve things.

Anything you feel is missing or needs to be taken away from the mechanic to make it function better: Some people have mentioned about the zone-type hitting with analog. That option would be nice. But just like button, we should have options to choose. Timing (R3 just determines swing timing), Zone (L3 for moving PCI), and Default (as is, R3 adjust lateral PCI location). I'm not good at all and still haven't mastered it, but I actually like the idea of having a single stick controlling the whole swing sequence. A lot of hitting is reactionary, so I feel simpler the better (like the current system.... though having control on vertical PCI movement is definitely desired... maybe preloading?? dunno how best can be done).

If applicable, is the visual feedback/graphics ample when using this mechanic. If not what is lacking or needs to be changed? It's quite good, but seeing how many people make fuss over PCI movement not realistic, an option to turn off visual feedback might be nice (partly joking, partly serious...). Especially with online play, I can actually see the opponent strategy by looking at swing analysis (like when hitters are looking at low pitches consistently when I use many low pitches, etc.), which is kinda unrealistic; I should be probing this by how and where I pitch, not looking at artificial swing analysis.

Are there any tutorials or practice modes you feel that are needed or changed to gain a better understanding of the mechanic? Well any more elaborate documentations for the game in general would be welcome. The manual with the DVD is way too cursory.

Misc: Not at the moment...

[nomo17k]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Analog Mode: Pitching

Biggest obstacle when using this particular mode:

(1) It's not an obstacle but it's far too easy to locate pitches.

(2) It's rather hard to miss widely. Vertical location is fine, but I hardly ever miss widely outside or inside.

Any improvements to the mechanic that could help overcome the above obstacle: Pitcher control/consistency needs to be worse in general. At the same time, the degree to which these get worse should be affected more by BB/9 and individual pitch control ratings. I feel it is not pronounced enough for different pitchers as it is.... And overall, this should be tuned to produce roughly 3 - 4 walks per 9 inn... It'd be hard to balance everything with different user skills involved, but.... YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!

Maybe doing above will take care of (1) as well as (2)... not sure if any drastic interface change is needed, but making control worse is definitely desired. Walks are part of the game... Unfortunately I haven't spent much time how interfaces could be improved.

Anything you feel is missing or needs to be taken away from the mechanic to make it function better:

If applicable, is the visual feedback/graphics ample when using this mechanic. If not what is lacking or needs to be changed?

Are there any tutorials or practice modes you feel that are needed or changed to gain a better understanding of the mechanic? Ditto.

Misc:

[sink4ever]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Mode: Hitting

Biggest Obstacle: Having to push up and to the right or left, depending on pitch location.

Improvements: Eliminate the up-and-side push and just make it a down-and-up mechanic and have the PCI placement be determined by ratings and your stride timing.

I'm good with everything else. Hitting was fun, but I could only find success on the lower difficulties. I still use the pitching and fielding mechanics.

I'd like to second this, as someone who bats from the pitcher view and still enjoys using the analog controls. Because the game doesn't adjust to your view, swinging "inside" or "outside" is reversed. An option to only have to go "down-and-up" would be really nice. Thanks!

[NAFBUC]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Fielding: Manual option should be complete user control. As soon as the ball is hit, you can move your fielder and charge the ball.

Hitting: Have a slight delay when the batter makes contact and the view switches to fielding.

The sliders should be improved to allow a greater variance when adjusting.

Of course, I have to mention stats and boxscore improvements.

thanks nem!

[nemesis04]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Fielding: Manual option should be complete user control. As soon as the ball is hit, you can move your fielder and charge the ball.

Hitting: Have a slight delay when the batter makes contact and the view switches to fielding.

The sliders should be improved to allow a greater variance when adjusting.

Of course, I have to mention stats and boxscore improvements.

thanks nem!

Well documented with examples!

[nemesis04]

Re: Analog control suggestions, improvements or tweaks for MLB 12

Analog Mode: Pitching

Biggest obstacle when using this particular mode:

(1) It's not an obstacle but it's far too easy to locate pitches.

(2) It's rather hard to miss widely. Vertical location is fine, but I hardly ever miss widely outside or inside.

What if the two player option was added for single player use where you do not see the left/right movement of the ball icon at the top the analog meter? Would that help some?

Nice feedback by the way, thank you!