MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

[Knight165]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

I guess it depends on what your definition of gameplay is, then. Personally, what I call gameplay is "how the user interacts with the information on the screen," nothing more and nothing less. This lends to elements such as the controls, feasibility, fun/replay value, competitive difficulty, and game logic. In my personal definition of the term, "realism" does not fall into gameplay whatsoever. This is why arcade games can still have great gameplay. It doesn't fall into it when it comes to seeing how the accurate the swing looks (that doesn't tie into "graphics" for me either IMO), nor does it say how the ball will react off the bat.

For me, that term is authenticity. Graphics are all on a technical level: if they achieve a good framerate and little aliasing, can run at a high resolution with decent lighting and texturing, then the game has good graphics. But that doesn't say whether a stadium's colors are correct, a player has the right batting stance, or the skies progress in the right way. IMO that is all tied into authenticity... or rather, "how the game accurately reflects what its intended target is." In this case, MLB 12: The Show is trying to reflect Major League Baseball. The more closely it reflects it (like realistic ball physics and proper camera angles), the happier I am. This is why authenticity is my number one priority when it comes to all video games. Gameplay is at a close second.

But again.....do you mean VISUAL authenticity?
If you do....that takes a WAY BACK...back seat to how the game plays out as far as results(both sim and actually playing it)

M.K.
Knight165

[jmik58]

The follow-through doesn't fall into the gameplay category anymore than someone's jersey flaps in the wind when they swing or how the dirt kicks up.

There seems to be a confusion between gamePLAY and gameACTION.

GamePLAY is the Xs and Os, the logic coding that determines outcomes in the representation of the impactful moments when trying to replicate results such as safe/out, strike/ball, etc.

GameACTION has to do with the visual side-effect or tag-along of gamePLAY.

I like to think that gameACTION helps tell the story of what gamePLAY is doing.

[stealyerface]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

See, this is the great thing about this game and about baseball in general.

We can all argue that Joey Votto will end up getting $250M in his next contract based on what Prince and Albert got, and there will be 500 guys who say they should pay him, and 500 guys who think it is too much.... Who's right? Well.... No one.

If you love to debate, and basically argue in circles, Baseball is the greatest game in the world.

When the closing pitcher allows the winning run, what differentiates between his choking, or failing at the job he is paid to do, versus the hitter who knocked in the winning run doing the job he was paid to do? Who is the hero and who is the goat? There can be no "right" answer... A lot of it has to do with fandom. If your favorite team got the hit, your guy was clutch. If the team you hate gave up the hit, the pitcher choked.

The same goes for the game, and trying to placate the masses, and make everyone happy. Personally, and I joke about this in my diatribes that I launch into on occasion, I could give a rat's bare end whether or not the sun's angle, when shining through the facade of a certain West Coast stadium, has the correct shadow color in relation to the first base foul line. I DO NOT CARE. Because I want the ball to spin correctly on a 12-6 curve ball, and I want the slider to break where it ought to when it is thrown on the outer half of the plate.

I do not care that the padding at the base of the left field wall in Tiger Stadium is the wrong shade of blue, and that the seams actually run at a 45 degree angle to the scoreboard, not 60 degrees. I mean, Seriously? But there are folks in this forum, who would feel that such a gross oversight would lend to the loss of credibility to the game. I think those folks are silly.

This is what makes the forum so fun. I want my steak, and some other guy wants the garnish next to his steak to be in the right spot when the chef plates the food.

Who is right? Both of us? Neither of us?

The debate rages on, and the developers try to walk the thin line between the Rib Eye and the Parsley.

It is the marriage of the two that makes a game "great", and honestly, something that must be a very demanding, and thankless process.

~syf

[Blzer]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

But again.....do you mean VISUAL authenticity?
If you do....that takes a WAY BACK...back seat to how the game plays out as far as results(both sim and actually playing it)

M.K.
Knight165

Nope, authenticity refers to how closely the video game appears to represent Major League Baseball. This includes hit types, player tendencies, proper colors of grass, proper pitch counts, etc. I didn't say "visual authenticity" for a reason.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

All it comes down to is priority and tradeoff though. We can make all suggestions we want and lament if they don't get through. The developers only have so much time and resources on their hands. They work on what they think should be their priority in order to make an appealing product that their target customer base (which includes but not necessarily exclusively us the OS members) wants.

[Knight165]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

Nope, authenticity refers to how closely the video game appears to represent Major League Baseball. This includes hit types, player tendencies, proper colors of grass, proper pitch counts, etc. I didn't say "visual authenticity" for a reason.

Way too general IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

[TheHammer19]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

Great trailer... Just wondering about the all new "free-agent signing process"

[Pared]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

I guess it depends on what your definition of gameplay is, then. Personally, what I call gameplay is "how the user interacts with the information on the screen," nothing more and nothing less. This lends to elements such as the controls, feasibility, fun/replay value, competitive difficulty, and game logic. In my personal definition of the term, "realism" does not fall into gameplay whatsoever. This is why arcade games can still have great gameplay. It doesn't fall into it when it comes to seeing how the accurate the swing looks (that doesn't tie into "graphics" for me either IMO), nor does it say how the ball will react off the bat. Gameplay is at a close second.

I guess I can call a car a short bus while we are at it Doesn't mean I would be referring to the vehicle correctly.

And how a game plays will always be first in my book, no matter the style it portrays. It's blasphemous to consider that second to anything.

[JaySmooov]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

I guess I can call a car a short bus while we are at it Doesn't mean I would be referring to the vehicle correctly.

And how a game plays will always be first in my book, no matter the style it portrays. It's blasphemous to consider that second to anything.

Would a short bus then be a...long short bus? Or a short long bus?

[Blzer]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

Way too general IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

Up to whoever you're speaking to, but that's how I define my terms. Otherwise, you're stuck with just "gameplay" and "graphics," and not broken down into three components. I'd prefer to do the latter, and that's how I prioritize what things I like the most in games.

[Dannyray64]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

Hey, for the guys at CD, can you confirm that collision detection is in and works well? As in the players do not clip through each other anymore? Thanks!

[Blzer]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

Hey, for the guys at CD, can you confirm that collision detection is in and works well? As in the players do not clip through each other anymore? Thanks!

In the Yankees double play clip, it seems as though if worse comes to worse, the players will do a little bit of panning off to the side automatically. So while they have some sort of avoidance detection in place, I bet they still use that last resort method to completely avoid clipping.

I guess I can call a car a short bus while we are at it Doesn't mean I would be referring to the vehicle correctly.

And how a game plays will always be first in my book, no matter the style it portrays. It's blasphemous to consider that second to anything.

We should bump that other thread to see more opinions, then. I never said that I would get a game which only has authenticity and no solid gameplay. I'm just saying that just because a game has slick controls and puts up a good fight, it does not mean I will be driven to buy it (I have to have an appreciation for what it's trying to resemble, and they have to do well with that as well).

I think my rant within that link will make more sense if you see it. But again, that's just how I am. Everybody is different. However, the rewritten ball physics, for me, fall into "authenticity," not gameplay... that said, I'd say authenticity is very important for me.

[beelo]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

True story, I read beginning to this point looking for the answer. Great trailer and a definate buy first day!

[stealyerface]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

The argument of authenticity comes into greater fuzziness when, upon the realease of the 2009 version of this game, someone's first entry in the "Glitches, Issues and Problems" thread was not the fact that the baserunners morphed magically through the firstbaseman on a close play at first, not the fact that outfielders could still run through each other, and not the fact that the baserunning had issues, but instead, the fact that a piece of wall in the outfield stuck out a foot too far, and should not be considered a homerun if the ball was hit off of it...

This is where we are coming to? We are more interested in the colors of wall padding, whether Kentucky Bluegrass is really the right shade of green in an early Springtime game, and why the chalk lines look nice and fresh again in the 4th inning...

That really is more important than core gameplay issues?

I think not.

~syf

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Reveal Trailer

The argument of authenticity comes into greater fuzziness when, upon the realease of the 2009 version of this game, someone's first entry in the "Glitches, Issues and Problems" thread was not the fact that the baserunners morphed magically through the firstbaseman on a close play at first, not the fact that outfielders could still run through each other, and not the fact that the baserunning had issues, but instead, the fact that a piece of wall in the outfield stuck out a foot too far, and should not be considered a homerun if the ball was hit off of it...

This is where we are coming to? We are more interested in the colors of wall padding, whether Kentucky Bluegrass is really the right shade of green in an early Springtime game, and why the chalk lines look nice and fresh again in the 4th inning...

That really is more important than core gameplay issues?

I think not.

~syf

I agree and I want to see the most effort put into something that affects the flow between input from/output to gamers which directly changes the outcome of the game. Visual aspect that has an effect on one's perception but not on game outcome in a profound way takes a back seat in my sense of priority. And fortunately the way I see it's how the devs prioritize as well, so I'm not complaining.

However, given different parts of the game get worked on by people with different expertise (AI is worked on by someone, animations by others, graphics by yet another, etc., etc.), I don't necessarily wish to dismiss something that I don't personally value as much as things that are unworthy or time.

If you take the number of posts in this forum as an indicator of interest, I see a great number of people do care about what can be termed as simply visual enhancement. (Not very scientific of course, and those who bring up repeatedly the same issues certainly bias this.)

When it comes to priority, I'd rather see the devs work on something like franchise mode over graphics. But these are worked on by different people at SCEA, so things like that may not be fighting for the same human resources. In that case, I may actually get to enjoy the improvements caused by those who are more attentive to things that I don't really care about. Do I really care that Shea Stadium in the Show replaces the one in real life in details? Not very much... good enough is good enough for me. But do I enjoy using the stadium in the Show and the fact that it replaces the real one rather well, due to community feedback or by the effort of designers at SCEA? Very much!

As long as those suggestions stay constructive, I think it is all good. It only becomes annoying when some users abuse/take for granted those opportunities...