Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

[bfindeisen]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

How lineups should be programmed:

1st) You determine the 3rd place hitter, best overall hitter, great contact and at least a power of 50 or higher. Look for the best contact guy and place the best contact guy with at least 50 power there.

2nd) You place in the #4 hitter, the most power with contact being at least 50.

3rd) The #5 hitter is whoever has the most power after picking the #3 and #4 hitters.

4th) Find the leadoff guy. You want a guy with a high OBP and ideally speed. Look at contact, plate discipline and vision, and speed. Look at the players left over with the highest contact. Look at plate discipline next. Then of the 2 best qualified players, take the fastest player for leadoff. Anyone over 50-60 power would be disqualified.

5th) Put the guy that didn't make the leadoff man cut as the number 2 hitter.

6th) Whoever left that has the most power bats 6th.

7th) If a National league team, put the highest contact and discipline guy 8th to hit in front of the pitcher. If American league team, use the same logic to determine the leadoff guy again, and place that hitter 9th.

8th) For NL, place the last player in the 7th spot and the pitcher bats 9th. Place the best contact guy out of the last 2 players 7th and have the last player left bat 8th.

That was just off the top of my head. I'm sure that logic would stop Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth from hitting 1st, along with stopping Todd Helton hitting 8th. With more time, I could come up with a very solid lineup logic. It really isn't that hard.

I'm with you. Now, I don't think its easy to get every lineup perfect, but it really shouldn't be hard to eliminate the more egregious anomalies that we've been seeing over the years. The main thing is, there hasn't been any measurable progress. I really don't think the lineup logic is any better now than it was 5 years ago.

[bkrich83]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

This is partly why I want to see variable manager tendency than a fix-them-all approach.

This right here, because every manager has a different approach to building their lineup.

Hell Mike Scioscia had Maicer Izturis hitting 3rd 3 years ago.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

This right here, because every manager has a different approach to building their lineup.

Hell Mike Scioscia had Maicer Izturis hitting 3rd 3 years ago.

Eric Wedge had Miguel Olivo as the cleanup hitter for a stretch last year...nuff said.

[thundergatti]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I've played only 10 games now and I've already seen Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth batting leadoff. And, the Rockies had Todd Helton batting 8th. It's seriously not that hard to write lineup logic. This is the 9th game in the series, lineup logic should be good by now. I realize some teams have odd lineups like Alfonso Soriano used to be a leadoff hitter so you can't ask the lineup logic to reflect real baseball perfectly, but the attributes of both Jayson Werth and Carlos Beltran do not indicate they are leadoff hitters, both have too much power. And, how and why is Todd Helton hitting 8th? It makes no sense to have someone with those kind of attributes hitting 8th.

I don't have the game. However, I don't believe that the two examples you cited are out of the realm of reason. Beltran has one of the greatest SB success rates in history, and hasn't Werth batted leadoff in the past, as well?

More important for me is the CPU pitcher AI management. Can anyone share what they've seen in this regard? Thanks.

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I don't have the game. However, I don't believe that the two examples you cited are out of the realm of reason. Beltran has one of the greatest SB success rates in history, and hasn't Werth batted leadoff in the past, as well?

More important for me is the CPU pitcher AI management. Can anyone share what they've seen in this regard? Thanks.

41 career games at lead off. 24 I think last year.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

This right here, because every manager has a different approach to building their lineup.

Hell Mike Scioscia had Maicer Izturis hitting 3rd 3 years ago.

I have zip, ziltch, nothing even remotely related to programming knowledge so if this is totally stupid... then :P

Along with the different approaches for different managers...
Could there be an option/settings in the game at some point where we could set up and name different strategies. Then assign to teams?
Like an order of importance:
Power, Contact, Overall, speed,etc..
Then the game looks at and balances it out with our criteria (lets name this one "Agressive")
then we could go to whatever team and assign the one we named "Aggresive"
to that team and they use it.

Even then I know not everyone would be happy with the outcome (we'll never have it to where everyone is happy).

I'm just sitting at work in a dead time..thinking out loud.

[geardust]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Anyone over 50-60 power doesn't bat leadoff? See Ian Kinsler.

I have seen some weird situations also (Adam Dunn batting leadoff), but it is in no way a game killer. Just roll with it.

[il blood il]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I've played only 10 games now and I've already seen Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth batting leadoff. And, the Rockies had Todd Helton batting 8th. It's seriously not that hard to write lineup logic. This is the 9th game in the series, lineup logic should be good by now. I realize some teams have odd lineups like Alfonso Soriano used to be a leadoff hitter so you can't ask the lineup logic to reflect real baseball perfectly, but the attributes of both Jayson Werth and Carlos Beltran do not indicate they are leadoff hitters, both have too much power. And, how and why is Todd Helton hitting 8th? It makes no sense to have someone with those kind of attributes hitting 8th.

um i know u touched on this within this paragraph but ian kinsler bats leadoff and smacked 31 bombs...some coaches want power at the top for early leads

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Some people have the idea of only the 1st 3 innings (or so) ingrained in their head. Once the game has started, the lineup is merely an order. I'd want my power hitters hitting as high as reasonably possible so they get more at bats. Batting 1st or 2nd vs. 3rd or 4th is quite a few plate appearances by the end of the year.

[nomo17k]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Some people have the idea of only the 1st 3 innings (or so) ingrained in their head. Once the game has started, the lineup is merely an order. I'd want my power hitters hitting as high as reasonably possible so they get more at bats. Batting 1st or 2nd vs. 3rd or 4th is quite a few plate appearances by the end of the year.

I've read here and there this is quite reasonable, in terms of creating runs. In fact, batting order doesn't seem to affect ability to score runs as much as we think it does (according to sabermetrics, which some don't like I suppose).

So if you run simulations, a batting order tends to perform slightly better when the best hitter is put in like the #2 slot (which traditionally is for a relatively weak hitter... how ironic). But we are talking about a difference of one run over many many games here. (So someone like Tom Tango has written that it may be better to make a lineup to satisfy players' egos rather than on a strategic basis... you could easily imagine Pujols going nuts hitting 2nd... hey, I'm not getting paid this much to hit...2nd... I'm not going to sac bunt, dude!!??).

Having said it, it would still be nice to see "realistic" lineups, in a sense that emulates the real life manager decisions well.

[bkrich83]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I have zip, ziltch, nothing even remotely related to programming knowledge so if this is totally stupid... then :P

Along with the different approaches for different managers...
Could there be an option/settings in the game at some point where we could set up and name different strategies. Then assign to teams?
Like an order of importance:
Power, Contact, Overall, speed,etc..
Then the game looks at and balances it out with our criteria (lets name this one "Agressive")
then we could go to whatever team and assign the one we named "Aggresive"
to that team and they use it.

Even then I know not everyone would be happy with the outcome (we'll never have it to where everyone is happy).

I'm just sitting at work in a dead time..thinking out loud.

I'd love something like that. That's almost a text sim approach to lineup management.

Worst case, I'd like to just see them allow the users to adjust CPU lineups, without having to use 30 team control.

[BlingBling19]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

If you don't want the CPU messing with the line-ups DO 30 TEAM CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liftheavy]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Some people don't want to mess with the 30 team Bs...

[CKW11]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Anyone over 50-60 power doesn't bat leadoff? See Ian Kinsler.

I have seen some weird situations also (Adam Dunn batting leadoff), but it is in no way a game killer. Just roll with it.

This. A couple of years ago the DBacks had Chris Young batting lead off regularly. HORRIBLE batting average and high power.

[DodgerFanatic2K3]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Worst case, I'd like to just see them allow the users to adjust CPU lineups, without having to use 30 team control.

Best suggestion possible and sure to please everyone