Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

[BlingBling19]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

The CPU line-up logic has been flawed for years this has been stated many times. It should be better but it is what it is.

There is a fix but if people don't wanna do 30 team control then I dunno.

[Knight165]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I'M NOT LOOKING AT NAMES. I'm looking at the ATTRIBUTES of Todd Helton. I don't understand how many times I have to say this (it's in my initial post too). There is no reason a player with Todd Helton's ATTRIBUTES should be hitting 8th. Lineup logic is simple enough to not have such gross mistakes.

Well....actually, you're the one that made a gross mistake.
You claim you looked at attributes.

vs. RHP....Todd Helton is always batting 5th in my sims.
vs. LHP....Todd Helton does indeed bat 8th in my sims.

So..

vs. LHP Contact ratings.

Dexter Fowler 64 with an 86 speed...so yeah...
Scutarto ...71 with a 91/71 vis/disc......62 speed..so yeah I can go with it..
Tulo....90
Cargo...72 with a 71 power
Cuddyer ...78
Blake....82
Hernandez...80
Helton....74 with a 43 power ....73/92 vis/disc....48 speed

So....obviously, the CPU is looking at like contacts...then speed...then vision for the 2 spot.
So.....while I was inclined to agree with you when you were talking ratings, you moved on to a name and were indeed disregarding ratings.

If you just looked at those numbers without names, you could definitely NOT...scream bloody murder at that lineup.
Sorry.

M.K.
Knight165

[Vashyron.]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Well....actually, you're the one that made a gross mistake.
You claim you looked at attributes.

vs. RHP....Todd Helton is always batting 5th in my sims.
vs. LHP....Todd Helton does indeed bat 8th in my sims.

So..

vs. LHP Contact ratings.

Dexter Fowler 64 with an 86 speed...so yeah...
Scutarto ...71 with a 91/71 vis/disc......62 speed..so yeah I can go with it..
Tulo....90
Cargo...72 with a 71 power
Cuddyer ...78
Blake....82
Hernandez...80
Helton....74 with a 43 power ....73/92 vis/disc....48 speed

So....obviously, the CPU is looking at like contacts...then speed...then vision for the 2 spot.
So.....while I was inclined to agree with you when you were talking ratings, you moved on to a name and were indeed disregarding ratings.

If you just looked at those numbers without names, you could definitely NOT...scream bloody murder at that lineup.
Sorry.

M.K.
Knight165

You're right about Helton. I did look at Helton's attributes though, he has good contact against lefties, I didn't realize the rest of the team had such high contact ratings against lefties. My mistake.

However, I still see no reason for Beltran or Werth hitting leadoff. I can more so see Beltran being leadoff, but he just has too much power (not that high against righties but decent enough). Plus, he has decent speed but when you look at his baserunning attributes, you can see he's not a base stealer. Moving on to Werth, I see no reason for him batting leadoff at all. His contact ratings aren't anything special at all (both in the 50s) with his power ratings being higher (70s I think). He is a standard middle of the lineup guy based on his attributes. I guess the lineup logic liked his speed so it overemphasizes speed it seems.

[hitstreak13]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Whoever mentioend managers tendecny is definitely on to something. Each team feels similar as far as logic IMO. Of course, some teams (texas) have much more power over others (seattle). I am dying for manager tendencies that we can tinker with as this MAY help with lineup logic to some extent. Would love to see:

• Batting: Power vs. Contact

- Pro of Power: More dingers, runs, etc. (Yankees) Con of Power: More Ks, less patience, low power. (Padres)

-Pro of contact: More hits, more patience, less K's etc. (Royals) Con of Contact: Less power, fewers runs, etc. (Mariners)

• Pitching: Power vs. Finesse

-Pro of power: More K's (Braves). -Con of power: Shorter outings, need to rely on pen, etc.(Brewers)

-Pro of Finesse: Longer outings, more control. -Con of finesse: need better Defense, less K's, etc.

• Baserunning: Aggressive vs. Conservative

-Pros of aggressive: 1st to 3rd, try to stretch extra base, etc. -Cons of aggressive: Perhaps too many CS attempts, more injuries, etc.

-Pros of conservative: Opponent may have to throw more pitches, team doesn't "run" itself out of innings, etc. -Cons of conservative: Team may have trouble scoring runs.

As far as defense goes, people focus on speed and glove so I left that one out. If these sliders were given to all managers (and coaches) I would have a happy camper.

[CMH]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I played a game as the Cards and saw Beltran batting leadoff. I didn't check his ratings, but Vasgersian did allude to him having the ability to swipe a base.

I do agree that Furcal (who batted 8th) should have been batting leadoff, but I didn't bother with it.

Jayson Werth did bat leadoff last year and I recall that being something the Nats pushed to do because they wanted him at the top of the lineup. My guess is his speed is the reason why he's up there. And some combination of his speed and contact is better than someone else's.

I don't concern myself with the power attribute for a leadoff hitter because I doubt the game is putting big power hitters up there that can't run. I wouldn't have a problem with Werth or Beltran hitting leadoff for my team.

[Knight165]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

You're right about Helton. I did look at Helton's attributes though, he has good contact against lefties, I didn't realize the rest of the team had such high contact ratings against lefties. My mistake.

However, I still see no reason for Beltran or Werth hitting leadoff. I can more so see Beltran being leadoff, but he just has too much power (not that high against righties but decent enough). Plus, he has decent speed but when you look at his baserunning attributes, you can see he's not a base stealer. Moving on to Werth, I see no reason for him batting leadoff at all. His contact ratings aren't anything special at all (both in the 50s) with his power ratings being higher (70s I think). He is a standard middle of the lineup guy based on his attributes. I guess the lineup logic liked his speed so it overemphasizes speed it seems.

I agree with you on perhaps some sort of logic that says...
If a player has XX contact XX speed/br..bat him leadoff unless he has XX power.
While we've seen in this thread that it does happen.
I myself don't believe it to be the "norm" and would rather have a speedier lower contact guy...with good vis/disc and br abilities at the top of the order and someone with 60 plus power hitting 4-5 or 6 before he hits leadoff.
M.K.
Knight165

[Pared]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I'M NOT LOOKING AT NAMES. I'm looking at the ATTRIBUTES of Todd Helton. I don't understand how many times I have to say this (it's in my initial post too). There is no reason a player with Todd Helton's ATTRIBUTES should be hitting 8th. Lineup logic is simple enough to not have such gross mistakes.

Well....actually, you're the one that made a gross mistake.
You claim you looked at attributes.

vs. RHP....Todd Helton is always batting 5th in my sims.
vs. LHP....Todd Helton does indeed bat 8th in my sims.

So..

vs. LHP Contact ratings.

Dexter Fowler 64 with an 86 speed...so yeah...
Scutarto ...71 with a 91/71 vis/disc......62 speed..so yeah I can go with it..
Tulo....90
Cargo...72 with a 71 power
Cuddyer ...78
Blake....82
Hernandez...80
Helton....74 with a 43 power ....73/92 vis/disc....48 speed

So....obviously, the CPU is looking at like contacts...then speed...then vision for the 2 spot.
So.....while I was inclined to agree with you when you were talking ratings, you moved on to a name and were indeed disregarding ratings.

If you just looked at those numbers without names, you could definitely NOT...scream bloody murder at that lineup.
Sorry.

M.K.
Knight165

Ouch. Beat me to it - that's what happens when you sign off to watch the NCAA tourney. Why didn't I check this thread before running a sim?

So again... I guess we were looking at names. Simple lineup logic, huh?

[spit_bubble]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

...I still see no reason for Beltran or Werth hitting leadoff...

I don't have the game in front of me at the moment, but if their real life stats are anything close to their in game attributes then a case can be made for them hitting lead off.

Beltran was 7th in the NL in OBP last year, and Werth is top ten in bases on balls in the NL the past three years. Werth can also steal a bag for you on occasion, and won't get thrown out doing so (top 10 SB% in the NL the last four years).

I don't know, you're gonna have to cite more than these three questionable examples if you want to make a case. Not sayin' it ain't so, but I'm not convinced at this point.

[EnigmaNemesis]

And there has been times where lumbering Youkah has batted lead off from having such a high OBP, etc.

Oh the irony.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I thought SCEA said this was something that was fixed.

[EnigmaNemesis]

I thought SCEA said this was something that was fixed.

Pro-Tip: Read entire thread before commenting.

Define "fixed".

They said they improved how the logic handled it, and they have. Is it perfect, no, but nor is "real life" as proven within this thread.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

If Pujols is batting 8th, who's in the 3 spot?

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

If Pujols is batting 8th, who's in the 3 spot?

He said he wasn't he used him as an example. I have NEVER seen that!

[Gagnon39]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

He said he wasn't he used him as an example. I have NEVER seen that!

Well, good. And as far as Helton, yeah, that's kind of silly but he isn't quite what he used to be.

[Knight165]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I thought SCEA said this was something that was fixed.

Do you read anything before posting?
I'm being 100% serious with that question.

In another thread....I write "there is no reason not to use 30 team control...it's exactly the same as using single team control ....EXCEPT for the draft...that's going to be more work for you"
In the very next post...you quote me ..and say...
"What about the draft?"

I don't know if you think you're being funny, or if you really just don't get it.
We....are having a decent discussion in here.
If you're going to participate....get up to speed!

M.K.
Knight165