This game CHEATS...

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  • chrishthomas
    Rookie
    • Mar 2011
    • 205

    #121
    Re: This game CHEATS...

    Those are good points, stealyerface. I remember that setting to which you refer, and I always played with it on.

    I have wondered about The Show in that regard. I have often started games with a pitcher who usually lights up the strike zone and I can paint on the black consistently, but on seemingly random occasions I can't find the zone. I'll have trouble just putting fastballs in for Ks (now, if I'm willing to throw it right down the middle I can get it in, but if I'm trying to hit corners, forget it).

    Ran into that in Game 3 of my NLDS (no I haven't made it that far in '12 yet, I'm finishing off an '11 season before I get into '12). Walked Jimmy Rollins on 4 straight to open the game, got Polanco to pop up a pitch that he should have creamed, but then I go down 2-0 on Utley, manage to get fastball--that should be pronounced meatball--by him that he was clearly intending to take. Miss the next fastball down. And, on 3-1, I'm not giving in, I try a change up low and away, but despite what appeared to be a good release according to the meter, the ball went straight down the pipe, and subsequently went straight out of the park. The rest of the game was a struggle for this guy, but I muddled through. When I changed pitchers in the 5th, I had none of these problems.

    Anyway, I've had situations like this and have wondered about what you are describing. Most times, I chalk it up to my thumb movements not being as precise one night versus another (I'm tired, I'm not concentrating, I'm distracted, etc.), but it could be something like the "variable stuff."

    Also, I've heard it discussed, but never had a definitive understanding of this. Is there carry-over pitcher confidence from game-to-game? That is, if my closer blows a save, is his confidence entering the next game lower than if he had pitched effectively in the previous game?

    I ask because recently my closer struggled through an extended period. He had a few a bad outings where he barely scrapped by gave up a run or two but still got the save, blew a save but was bailed out by a ninth inning bomb, on his next attempt blew a 4-run lead and took the loss (wasn't even a save situation, but I had him warmed up prior to scoring an additional run in the 9th), and blew his next save as well. After this, I was able to work him back into normal form by putting him in some situations where he would most likely succeed. Now he seems to be back to his old self.
    Last edited by chrishthomas; 05-31-2012, 10:44 AM.

    Comment

    • payton425
      Banned
      • May 2012
      • 198

      #122
      Re: This game CHEATS...

      Playing legend mode last against cpu...i give up 5 in an inning. I come to bat and my first batters pci (i think thats what it is called) is noticeably larger than his previous at bat. He did not get a hit or anything his previous at bat so not sure why it was larger. I never toggled to contact hitting either...seems strange to me and adds on to a previous posters comments about a big inning by a team is followed up with the other team doing some interestings Ai stuff.

      Comment

      • stealyerface
        MVP
        • Feb 2004
        • 1803

        #123
        Re: This game CHEATS...

        Remember that the PCI shrinks and gets larger based not only on attributes and ratings, but also by the pitch count.

        Swing and miss a Power Swing on an 0-2 count, and the PCI might be the size of a pea.

        Swing at the same pitch on a 3-1 count, and it might be three times as large.

        Same hitter, same pitch, but a better count.

        I have really started to be more patient at the plate, and work hard to get my guys in a hitter's count, and then sit on a pitch and bang it.

        Guys like Ortiz and A-Gon really have an advantage with the 2-0 and 3-1 pitches.

        Especially if you can guess fastball correctly.

        ~syf
        "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

        Comment

        • redsfan4life
          MVP
          • Mar 2005
          • 2763

          #124
          Re: This game CHEATS...

          I just cheated the CPU out of a win. 2 outs in the 9th down by two, I hit a weak grounder to 3B, Freese boots it and Rolen reaches base. After two 98 MPH fastballs I swung and missed on Motte makes a mistakes, leaving a 92 MPH cutter right over the plate and I blast it over the center field wall for a two run HR to tie it up. In the top half of the 10th, the Cards get two singles from Beltran and Holliday making it 1st and 3rd with no one out. Berkman strikes out, Freese pops up to first, and Molina hits a rocket right to Rolen, 3 out. Stubbs is HBP on the first pitch of the bottom half of the inning, and on a 2-1 pitch Votto rips a double down the line and Stubbs sneaks in just ahead of the relay throw from Schumaker. Damn, what a game.
          PSN: Maserati_Bryan17

          Comment

          • Cavicchi
            MVP
            • Mar 2004
            • 2841

            #125
            Re: This game CHEATS...

            Originally posted by PsychoBulk
            Wooooah, slow down horsey!

            Cavicchi i like reading your posts but you need to realise that the below...

            ...is quite clearly you saying you believe the game effectively reset the OF to get a hit i.e. cheat, i.e. its a bit sinister!

            I think thats pretty obvious to anyone who read it.

            Anyway, we're all entitled to our own opinions, if you want to believe it, thats fine, your choice, ill choose to believe the developers when they tell me theres no such pre-determined code ever used, thats my choice.

            Andddddddddddddddd breathe :wink:
            Are you certain I said it as if it were a certainty? Let's see what I said--

            "The playing level has nothing to do with ball going through the bat for a strike three. I had that happen at least once on Rookie level.

            I've caught the CPU setting my OF deep for guys who lack power, and I caught the CPU setting my OF shallow for guys with power. I've seen my shortstop move to his right as the pitch is thrown and the ball was hit straight near second base bag out of shortstop's reach. Why these things happen are beyond me. The CPU doesn't have to cheat like that to get a hit. I mean, the CPU could just have the batter get a hit regardless of defensive positioning. On the other hand, maybe the CPU by virtue of programming cannot get a hit that way.

            The question remains, why play Joey Votto shallow? Would any team set their OF shallow for Joey Votto, with no one on base? That is one example, and there have been quite a few more like it.


            Bad programming? Maybe. Cheating? Maybe. A Bug? I don't think so. The most likely reason that I see is the CPU wanted Votto to get a hit so it set my OF shallow.

            Still, whatever the reason these things happen, I am having lots of fun. Sometimes I play for hours, three or four games in a row. Thus, even if the game does cheat, I still love it!"

            Now, what you guys refer to as sinister, I call basing an opinion on logic. I stand by what I said, "The most likely reason..."

            You call it sinister and I call it powers of reasoning or...logic.

            I don't think any developer would say their game cheats, not that I say it cheats, though it is possible. The explanation you gave for OFs being shallow is not what I experience, and I told you that previously, although you haven't addressed it.

            Anyway, calling a logical conclusion sinister is quite amusing to me. Call me sinister, call what I write sinister, and call me a sinister minister of evil--if it makes you happy.

            Comment

            • Russell_SCEA
              SCEA Community Manager
              • May 2005
              • 4161

              #126
              Re: This game CHEATS...

              Originally posted by stealyerface
              Remember that the PCI shrinks and gets larger based not only on attributes and ratings, but also by the pitch count.

              Swing and miss a Power Swing on an 0-2 count, and the PCI might be the size of a pea.

              Swing at the same pitch on a 3-1 count, and it might be three times as large.

              Same hitter, same pitch, but a better count.

              I have really started to be more patient at the plate, and work hard to get my guys in a hitter's count, and then sit on a pitch and bang it.

              Guys like Ortiz and A-Gon really have an advantage with the 2-0 and 3-1 pitches.

              Especially if you can guess fastball correctly.

              ~syf
              The PCI doesn't shrink and grow based on the pitch count. The only factors that fluctuate the size are the batters attributes, the type of swing you use and if you guess right or wrong.

              Comment

              • seanjeezy
                The Future
                • Aug 2009
                • 3347

                #127
                Re: This game CHEATS...

                Originally posted by Russell_SCEA
                The PCI doesn't shrink and grow based on the pitch count. The only factors that fluctuate the size are the batters attributes, the type of swing you use and if you guess right or wrong.
                I'm assuming guessing refers to the guess pitch option, but what about if you play with it off? Does timing end up playing a factor?
                Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda

                Comment

                • Russell_SCEA
                  SCEA Community Manager
                  • May 2005
                  • 4161

                  #128
                  Re: This game CHEATS...

                  Originally posted by seanjeezy
                  I'm assuming guessing refers to the guess pitch option, but what about if you play with it off? Does timing end up playing a factor?
                  Timing doesn't effect the size either. If you choose not to use the feature it doesn't effect the PCI either way. If you choose to play with guess pitch on no feedback there are bigger bonuses for guessing right.

                  Comment

                  • Bobhead
                    Pro
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 4926

                    #129
                    Re: This game CHEATS...

                    I really hate to question a developer... but... I'm questioning a developer.

                    I mean, I've seen some really radical fluctuations in the size of the PCI. I'll be fooled by a breaking ball, swinging with normal swing, and my PCI will be the size of a thumbtack. Yet in the same game, with the same pitcher and batter (I'm not confident enough in my memory to say "during the same at-bat, so I'll leave that out), I'll check again, and the PCI is normal. Sometimes I'll even check and the PCI is huge, like the whole strike zone, big. This is all with normal swing, as I rarely ever use anything else. The pitcher's ratings didn't change between innings or even between pitches. So if Timing isn't a factor, what gives?

                    It's even more noticeable with power swing, since you pretty much have to guess a pitch to keep up with it (since power swings are slower and take longer to execute). One swing it will be tiny, the next it will be large.

                    I'm not putting any theories or anything on the table, or calling anyone a liar or anything. I'm just curious what I'm missing, because if there's one thing I'm sure about, is that I'm missing something.
                    Last edited by Bobhead; 05-31-2012, 02:28 PM.

                    Comment

                    • seanjeezy
                      The Future
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 3347

                      #130
                      Re: This game CHEATS...

                      I'll 1up you Bobhead and say I have seen the size of the PCI fluctuate in consecutive pitches. Its just a theory but I believe pitch type and confidence matter as well. Case in point, I decide to do a power swing on 2-0 with M's minor leaguer Stefen Romero.
                      The pitcher throws a curve so I am out in front, when I check the PCI it is literally a dot. Next pitch I decide to power swing again, this time its a fastball and I crush it into the left field seats. I check the PCI, this time its big enough to cover the entire low and inside zone. By the way, this was the first time I had ever made solid contact with the power swing in my 4 years of playing the Show.
                      Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda

                      Comment

                      • bcruise
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 23274

                        #131
                        Re: This game CHEATS...

                        Originally posted by Bobhead
                        I really hate to question a developer... but... I'm questioning a developer.

                        I mean, I've seen some really radical fluctuations in the size of the PCI. I'll be fooled by a breaking ball, swinging with normal swing, and my PCI will be the size of a thumbtack. Yet in the same game, with the same pitcher and batter (I'm not confident enough in my memory to say "during the same at-bat, so I'll leave that out), I'll check again, and the PCI is normal. Sometimes I'll even check and the PCI is huge, like the whole strike zone, big. This is all with normal swing, as I rarely ever use anything else. The pitcher's ratings didn't change between innings or even between pitches. So if Timing isn't a factor, what gives?

                        It's even more noticeable with power swing, since you pretty much have to guess a pitch to keep up with it (since power swings are slower and take longer to execute). One swing it will be tiny, the next it will be large.

                        Again I'm not putting any theories or anything on the table, I'm just saying what I have seen, as I would really like to hear more about this new-fangled PCI thing you speak of.
                        I would agree that the PCI as it's shown in the post-pitch analysis window does change size depending on the timing. I think it also depends on whether or not the pitch you were swinging at is inside or outside of the strike zone. Some of the Cubs have some rather small PCI's against right-handed pitchers, and some of them shrink to the size of the baseball's dot if I whiff a power swing out of the zone, even on All-Star. But, I can whiff on the same pitch in the strike zone (still with a power swing), and the PCI might be closer to its normal size. It's especially noticeable on hanging breaking balls in the zone - the PCI sometimes shows up as being bigger than normal on those. I think that's supposed to reflect a much better chance of hitting those mistake pitches hard.

                        If you doubt, just play a few innings doing nothing but power swinging - you should see some pretty wild fluctuations in the PCI size (even in the same at-bat), depending on the type of pitch and the timing.

                        That said, we've been told before that the analysis window isn't a perfect representation of the PCI's size and how it's affecting the chance of good contact. It's just there to give us an idea.

                        Comment

                        • PsychoBulk
                          Hoping for change...
                          • May 2006
                          • 4191

                          #132
                          Re: This game CHEATS...

                          Originally posted by Cavicchi
                          Snip.
                          Me thinks one doth protest too much.

                          Your conclusion, from your post, is that it is most likely the game is cheating.

                          Thats your prerogative.

                          Its also my prerogative to think thats total horsesh*t.

                          I dont know why you continue to try and make out you didnt insinuate their was something sinister about what the game was doing, i know you did, you know you did and anyone reading this thread certainly knows you did.

                          Anyway, the phrase beating a dead horse comes to mind, ill let the readers decide whos talking sense and whos....not.

                          Im done

                          Comment

                          • chrishthomas
                            Rookie
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 205

                            #133
                            Re: This game CHEATS...

                            Russell, if you are still following this thread could you clarify one thing for me. I may be mis-remembering, or just flat out wrong, but I thought I read from a developer last year that if a player is using analog hitting then the PCI will be affected by the timing of their stride. At an extreme level, this would function such that a player couldn't hold down on the stick as soon as the pitcher starts his motion and then just push up if they decided to swing, or more realistically just being late or very early would also impact the PCI.

                            Am I wrong about reading that somewhere? And, if I'm not, could that explain the different PCI sizes (if folks are using analog hitting).

                            Comment

                            • payton425
                              Banned
                              • May 2012
                              • 198

                              #134
                              Re: This game CHEATS...

                              A huge issue is pitchers pitch confidence in game...playing legend I had felix who was getting rocked with his 4fb. He was throwing it for strikes but batters were hitting 6-13 against him. However his pitch confidence for the 4fb was nearly 100% full. That is a huge issue that carries over to alot of headshaking experiences I had with the show.

                              Comment

                              • MLB Bob
                                MVP
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 1008

                                #135
                                Re: This game CHEATS...

                                I do not use guess pitch and use zone hitting and have clearly seen what the others are talking about. My PCI def does change based on something other than swing type and pitcher. Maybe we are all missing something but in my experiences my pci in the pitch history window that shows on screen between pitches changes sizes, even using the the same swing against the same pitcher. There has to be more to this.

                                Personally I do feel sometimes things are predetermined. but I also value the info others have brought up disputing it. I prefer to think that the game isnt out to get me...lol
                                Last edited by MLB Bob; 05-31-2012, 03:30 PM.

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