2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[LakerFan56]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I want to get rid of Andre Ethier. I'd be willing to give up anyone else minus Crawford, Kemp and Kershaw for a replacement RF. Any ideas?

[andrewochs615]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

If the Orioles wouldn't trade Markakis and Tillman for Halladay then their management is just as bad as I thought

Well this is just ignorant. It's not that it is not a fair trade, it just does not benefit the O's to trade a key part of their lineup for a pitcher who will be on the decline. The O's for once have a lot of pitching depth, what they lack is OBP and someone who can hit left handed pitching, which markakis does both.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Well this is just ignorant. It's not that it is not a fair trade, it just does not benefit the O's to trade a key part of their lineup for a pitcher who will be on the decline. The O's for once have a lot of pitching depth, what they lack is OBP and someone who can hit left handed pitching, which markakis does both.

Depth? Jake Arrieta and Brian Matsuz is depth?

You have plenty of decent OFs, and some good pitching is one of the many things the O's lack.

There's a difference between depth and quality depth. You guys have the former and it's not going to get you anywhere.

[CKW11]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Depth? Jake Arrieta and Brian Matsuz is depth?

You have plenty of decent OFs, and some good pitching is one of the many things the O's lack.

There's a difference between depth and quality depth. You guys have the former and it's not going to get you anywhere.

I'm not trying to be a jerkoff as this is a legitimate question, but didn't their pitching depth play a large part in their run last year?

[Troopershorty51]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Depth? Jake Arrieta and Brian Matsuz is depth?

You have plenty of decent OFs, and some good pitching is one of the many things the O's lack.

There's a difference between depth and quality depth. You guys have the former and it's not going to get you anywhere.

I guess the playoffs is no where...
There is absolutely no reason that they would trade Markakis and a young pitcher for Halladay. They need offense not a 35 year old pitcher who had a career high 4.49 era last season and who may only be good for a couple more years.

[ItAllFades]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Depth? Jake Arrieta and Brian Matsuz is depth?

You have plenty of decent OFs, and some good pitching is one of the many things the O's lack.

There's a difference between depth and quality depth. You guys have the former and it's not going to get you anywhere.

That "lack depth" won them over 90 games last year. Whereas the team that had the better pitchers, including an aging Roy Halladay, won 81 games.

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Good pitching got that team 2 consecutive world series appearances and 5 straight division titles. Starting pitching did not really carry the Orioles last year but rather the outstanding bullpen work from Strop, O'Day, and Jim Johnson and co. (In fact Jim Johnson led RP in WPA with 5.35 and O'Day 5th with 3.42) Meanwhile no Orioles SP had a positive WPA. The Bullpen was the unit that really shined, not Starting Pitchers.

The Orioles were 29-9 (!) in one run games. That's ridiculous and the chances of them having that good of luck in one run games are slim to none. You cannot possibly expect sustained success from a team that had the year the Orioles had last year. And besides, they lost in the 1st round meaning that they still have a long ways to go.

Roy Halladay's stock has dropped some sure but he is far and beyond more valuable than Nick Markakis. If you called the Phillies no less than 2 years ago and offered Markakis for Halladay they would've laughed in your face and hang up

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I'm not trying to be a jerkoff as this is a legitimate question, but didn't their pitching depth play a large part in their run last year?

This sums it up;

Good pitching got that team 2 consecutive world series appearances and 5 straight division titles. Starting pitching did not really carry the Orioles last year but rather the outstanding bullpen work from Strop, O'Day, and Jim Johnson and co. (In fact Jim Johnson led RP in WPA with 5.35 and O'Day 5th with 3.42) Meanwhile no Orioles SP had a positive WPA. The Bullpen was the unit that really shined, not Starting Pitchers.

The Orioles were 29-9 (!) in one run games. That's ridiculous and the chances of them having that good of luck in one run games are slim to none. You cannot possibly expect sustained success from a team that had the year the Orioles had last year. And besides, they lost in the 1st round meaning that they still have a long ways to go.

Roy Halladay's stock has dropped some sure but he is far and beyond more valuable than Nick Markakis. If you called the Phillies no less than 2 years ago and offered Markakis for Halladay they would've laughed in your face and hang up

This exactly. Your relieving core was spectacular this year and due for huge regression. You need starting pitching. Steve Johnson isn't going to offset the regression.

[Troopershorty51]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Good pitching got that team 2 consecutive world series appearances and 5 straight division titles. Starting pitching did not really carry the Orioles last year but rather the outstanding bullpen work from Strop, O'Day, and Jim Johnson and co. (In fact Jim Johnson led RP in WPA with 5.35 and O'Day 5th with 3.42) Meanwhile no Orioles SP had a positive WPA. The Bullpen was the unit that really shined, not Starting Pitchers.

The Orioles were 29-9 (!) in one run games. That's ridiculous and the chances of them having that good of luck in one run games are slim to none. You cannot possibly expect sustained success from a team that had the year the Orioles had last year. And besides, they lost in the 1st round meaning that they still have a long ways to go.

Roy Halladay's stock has dropped some sure but he is far and beyond more valuable than Nick Markakis. If you called the Phillies no less than 2 years ago and offered Markakis for Halladay they would've laughed in your face and hang up

2 years ago Halladay had a 2.35 era, the best of his career, of course they wouldn't have traded him. Halladay is different now though, coming off one of the worst seasons he's had and about to turn 36 years old.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

2 years ago Halladay had a 2.35 era, the best of his career, of course they wouldn't have traded him. Halladay is different now though, coming off one of the worst seasons he's had and about to turn 36 years old.

2 years ago really isn't that long.

[Troopershorty51]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

2 years ago really isn't that long.

For a pitcher of his age it is... And also, no one expects the Orioles to compete this year so why in the world would they trade for Halladay and get rid of younger players, especially one of the most productive hitters in the lineup who is also a great fielder? It makes very little sense.

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

2 years ago Halladay had a 2.35 era, the best of his career, of course they wouldn't have traded him. Halladay is different now though, coming off one of the worst seasons he's had and about to turn 36 years old.

And only 2 Orioles Starting Pitchers had a better ERA and only 1 had a better FIP than him. So, why couldn't they use him? If Halladay's worst season is better than the majority of my pitchers, I'm trading for him.

[Troopershorty51]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

And only 2 Orioles Starting Pitchers had a better ERA and only 1 had a better FIP than him. So, why couldn't they use him? If Halladay's worst season is better than the majority of my pitchers, I'm trading for him.

See my post above, why would a team that isn't expected to compete trade a core player and a young pitcher for a 1-2 year rental?

They didn't need a big name starter last year to make the playoffs so I don't see them coming anywhere close to this trade. They're confident in what they have which is one of the main reasons they did so little in the offseason.

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

See my post above, why would a team that isn't expected to compete trade a core player and a young pitcher for a 1-2 year rental?

That core player is turning 30 and making 30 million dollars in the next two years with a 17 million dollar option. So it's 2 years of Halladay or two years of Markakis.

Orioles had a ton of fan support last year and fans always want to see improvement. You can't sell "oh well we're not making the playoffs mentality" after you just made the playoffs.

It's one thing to argue whether the Orioles should trade for Halladay and it's another to say Roy Halladay is not worthM Markakis and Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman. Anyway, I'm done with arguing this subject as I don't want to stray off-topic

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

For a pitcher of his age it is... And also, no one expects the Orioles to compete this year so why in the world would they trade for Halladay and get rid of younger players, especially one of the most productive hitters in the lineup who is also a great fielder? It makes very little sense.

Huh? Judging by the Orioles' board on MLB.com I'm pretty sure they want to compete. Want, not can.

For whatever it's worth, Buster Olney picked them to win the division, which is.. uh... okay.. Meh, I guess that's why someone created that TrippinOlney account.

And, yeah, defensive / baserunning metrics aren't the greatest, but they're not terrible, and BsR is pretty good, and they think Markakis has provided negative value on defense and baserunning for a while now. His offense isn't *spectacular* either.