first pitch meatballs....bug?

[bobtrain]

@bobtrain...

I'm definitely alarmed at how many hittable strikes were thrown. I wouldn't say there is an abundance of meatballs (not saying that's your claim). But based on the ten game sample you provided, that's not realistic at all in terms of strikes (that are very hittable), in my opinion.

I'm just frustrated that there are standing pat even when there is evidence. It's pretty clear based on the twitter chatter and sprinkled on the forums that there is an issue. Even Pastapadre tweeted the problem earlier. I'm not trying to be difficult. I love all aspects of this game except this one flaw.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I'm just frustrated that there are standing pat even when there is evidence. It's pretty clear based on the twitter chatter and sprinkled on the forums that there is an issue. Even Pastapadre tweeted the problem earlier. I'm not trying to be difficult. I love all aspects of this game except this one flaw.

Really based on threads like this one i am not surprised. Most the posters are struggling to tell the difference between the exhibition and RTTS issues with this. So you get this ala cart argument of the two being meshed together.

I really don't know what else to say about it than i hope others test the two separately because they need to be tested separated. If we can get enough people to test them we can either find the cause- a difficult level, a setting, whatever it is or we can build enough support to get the show team to look at it.

[Guigsdaddy]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Every first pitch is right down the middle also

[bobtrain]

Really based on threads like this one i am not surprised. Most the posters are struggling to tell the difference between the exhibition and RTTS issues with this. So you get this ala cart argument of the two being meshed together.

I really don't know what else to say about it than i hope others test the two separately because they need to be tested separated. If we can get enough people to test them we can either find the cause- a difficult level, a setting, whatever it is or we can build enough support to get the show team to look at it.

Agreed! I clearly point out that my situation is in RTTS. There are others who say its fine in exhibition. However, I'd hope we'd all agree that on a HIGH difficulty (two highest ones) we wouldn't see this high frequency of first pitch strikes. 1. It's unrealistic and 2. Not fun.

[jmik58]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

This is complete conjecture, but what if (and I mentioned this before in a different context) the game was made to behave this way purposely so that RTTS can be more "fun" to the casual fan?

We're all pretty die-hard simulation nuts here at O.S. We don't represent the vast majority of kids or people who play this game.

In 2012, a discussion between an EA Gamechanger and a Madden developer was paraphrased in the Madden forums. Essentially the conclusion was that, yes, developers make games to cater to the "fun" factor because that is what sells games.

Glancing now at RTTS; the point of the game is for you to take a character (who you likely have some vested interest in seeing succeed) and growing him into a HOFer. The casual fan doesn't have the skill or patience to progress their player if the CPU AI is going to pitch to them exactly how they would in real life.

SCEA likely wants gamers to experience success and joy when playing RTTS. One way to make sure this happens is to set up the code so that the CPU gives you more hittable pitches (this could by why people are seeing it more in RTTS -- allegedly).

If this is truly the case, let me say that I don't agree with it from a selfish standpoint. However, if I was selling a product like The Show, I certainly understand why they would do something like that (if they are).

Bottom line is that what many are experiencing may be on purpose because "the game" wants you to succeed. It's not a bug. It's purposely programmed.

There are a hundred directions and questions to go from there, but if you understand possibly "why" it's set up this way, it makes it easier to come at the issue (assuming my guess is true).

I see three different reactions at this point. For some, the abundance of hittable pitches is a turn-off, for others they enjoy it, and then there are those in the middle who care but don't see it as being so bad that it's worth arguing over. All three viewpoints are valid. But instead of seeing if there is some level of pre-programmed imbalance (which it appears there may be) the key thing would be to find out "Why?"

[AUTiger1]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

The problem with these posts is people come into the thread and decide well see he proved the opposite. The thing is the post proves nothing. Accurate tracking of inning by inning, game by game is needed. I have said i have seen some balls even with this issue from time to time. Until people want to put in the work and use the same parameters, settings, methods we are just spinning our wheels.

As for everything at 0, i do not know. I haven't tested at zero. Plus, i didn't say every pitch was a meatball. I said the first pitch of the inning is the pitchers #1 pitch. The high majority are in the center of the strike zone. Again the problem is people not understanding the issue first and not testing second.

This is not true. I got first pitch of inning curveballs and sliders that were balls

[Bobhead]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

1. How are my sliders that far off from default?

2. Baseball metrics points out that batter will see first pitch strike 58% of time. Do you see first pitch strike being 58%.

3. Minor league pitchers have less command than Major Leaguers and thus have harder time locating strike zone. I've seen pitchers throw their #1 pitch and hit the dirt.

4. Going to exhibition ignores the fact that there is a problem in RTTS.

5. Changing it to pitch type is not valid argument. We're simply talking about the level of first pitches thrown for strike.

1. The fact that they are off of default at all tilts the entire experiment. If you are testing the overabundance of meatballs you can't use sliders that are modified to produce a higher number of meatballs.

2. In the major leagues. Stop assuming minor leagues are identical.

3. That's not even a fact, just your opinion.

4. Is there a problem in RTTS? You accuse others of standing pat but it seems you've already made-up your mind.

And the pitchtype thing wasn't intended to be an argument at all. I just suggested you kill two birds with one stone, and analyze the fastball frequency alongside the rest of your experiment.

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

This is complete conjecture, but what if (and I mentioned this before in a different context) the game was made to behave this way purposely so that RTTS can be more "fun" to the casual fan?

That is a possibility but it would be a head scratcher.

One of the main reasons 'The Show' is so highly regarded as the best sim game in all of sports is because they give you so many options on how to play the game. Separate difficulty levels for Hitting/Pitching/Fielding, tons of control schemes, and sliders.

One of the biggest features added this year was Beginner mode which was a positive thing to draw more people into the game. I doubt many people on OS use that feature but the people on OS do not consist of the majority of the game players. Things like that are needed to maintain and increase the growth of the product and the more people that play the game the better for us as well, so it isn't a bad thing that it was one of the big features.

If the first pitch meatball in RTTS was a developer decision that is fine, but it should have been a beginner mode only feature or been a toggleable option for us to turn on and turn off like everything else is. We should have the ultimate decision on how to play the game our way I feel, this is the great strength of the series. There is no reason you have to choose between appealing to the sim or casual crowd, there is plenty of room for both types and thanks to settings both can be fully satisfied.

This is all assumption that the dev's meant for the first ball to be a meatball in RTTS and to a lesser degree in Exhibition/Franchise first pitch of each inning to increase offense. It could very well be something they overlooked and will be fixed. It is best to give them all the concrete evidence we can as bobtrain is doing well.

I don't have the game yet but I know when I get it and If what I read is true it will diminish some of my enjoyment of the game as a franchise player when I don't have the read the first pitch of each inning and just swing away like it's tee-ball. I read someone saying his leadoff hitter (Reyes) was hitting .400 because of this and I could see that happening and that would take a lot of the realism out of the game for me.

TL;DR To devs: If this is how RTTS is designed to work, please give an option to turn it off or relegate it only to beginner mode. Please look into the behavior of pitchers first pitch of each inning overwhelmingly being a meatball in exhibition/franchise as well.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

This is not true. I got first pitch of inning curveballs and sliders that were balls

All i can say it what i am seeing and recording. I have done this over 12 games now and see the same thing over and over. You could continue to track this and do it in a manner that is useful. I would love to hear more about it. It needs to be tracked literally every inning, every pitch.

If you come back to me and say, i have played 5 exhibition games and i kept track of the first pitch in every inning and the results were this and this. Then i would have to ask for your settings as something is different with what i am seeing. What i am seeing based on your other posts is you were in extra innings, i assume exhibition but i don't know for sure and didn't see a pitch down the middle on the first pitch of the inning. Its just hard to get anything from that information.

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I think two tests (maybe three) are needed to refute or prove this for sure.

All tests should be conducted on All-Star hitting/Default sliders

RTTS Major league level first pitch strikes in all at-bats

(maybe also RTTS AA level first pitch strikes in all at-bats to see if there's a split between majors and minors)

Exhibition first pitch strikes as the first pitch of each inning, and separately each relievers first pitch coming into the game if they did not start the inning.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

This is complete conjecture, but what if (and I mentioned this before in a different context) the game was made to behave this way purposely so that RTTS can be more "fun" to the casual fan?

We're all pretty die-hard simulation nuts here at O.S. We don't represent the vast majority of kids or people who play this game.

In 2012, a discussion between an EA Gamechanger and a Madden developer was paraphrased in the Madden forums. Essentially the conclusion was that, yes, developers make games to cater to the "fun" factor because that is what sells games.

Glancing now at RTTS; the point of the game is for you to take a character (who you likely have some vested interest in seeing succeed) and growing him into a HOFer. The casual fan doesn't have the skill or patience to progress their player if the CPU AI is going to pitch to them exactly how they would in real life.

SCEA likely wants gamers to experience success and joy when playing RTTS. One way to make sure this happens is to set up the code so that the CPU gives you more hittable pitches (this could by why people are seeing it more in RTTS -- allegedly).

If this is truly the case, let me say that I don't agree with it from a selfish standpoint. However, if I was selling a product like The Show, I certainly understand why they would do something like that (if they are).

Bottom line is that what many are experiencing may be on purpose because "the game" wants you to succeed. It's not a bug. It's purposely programmed.

There are a hundred directions and questions to go from there, but if you understand possibly "why" it's set up this way, it makes it easier to come at the issue (assuming my guess is true).

I see three different reactions at this point. For some, the abundance of hittable pitches is a turn-off, for others they enjoy it, and then there are those in the middle who care but don't see it as being so bad that it's worth arguing over. All three viewpoints are valid. But instead of seeing if there is some level of pre-programmed imbalance (which it appears there may be) the key thing would be to find out "Why?"

This could be true but then i ask why only the first pitch of the inning or the first pitch of a reliever? Why not every first pitch, or every 5th pitch, etc. We are talking 7% of the pitches you would see based on 143 per game (the MLB average) if this only happened at the start of 9 innings and with one reliever.
Its not a earthshaking problem in exhibition, but its does have an effect and i think that is worth talking about.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I think two tests (maybe three) are needed to refute or prove this for sure.

All tests should be conducted on All-Star hitting/Default sliders

RTTS Major league level first pitch strikes in all at-bats

(maybe also RTTS AA level first pitch strikes in all at-bats to see if there's a split between majors and minors)

Exhibition first pitch strikes as the first pitch of each inning, and separately each relievers first pitch coming into the game if they did not start the inning.

I fully agree but instead we get people aimed with "i think" or confusing the two and posting information/data that cannot be used because it doesn't fit the parameters needed for testing.

[Bobhead]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I think two tests (maybe three) are needed to refute or prove this for sure.

All tests should be conducted on All-Star hitting/Default sliders

RTTS Major league level first pitch strikes in all at-bats

(maybe also RTTS AA level first pitch strikes in all at-bats to see if there's a split between majors and minors)

Exhibition first pitch strikes as the first pitch of each inning, and separately each relievers first pitch coming into the game if they did not start the inning.

I fully agree but instead we get people aimed with "i think" or confusing the two and posting information/data that cannot be used because it doesn't fit the parameters needed for testing.

I completely agree.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I opened a ticket in the new bug tracker over at SCEA

If you follow this link: http://www.theshownation.com/bug_reports/10318

You will see what I reported, also if you sign in with your PSN username you can click the (+) symbol to basically say you are experiencing the same problem. The more (+) the faster issue will move up in priority. We have 6 pages of complaints yet no one is voting over at the bug tracker!

[BlueSkies7776]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this kind of a problem in MLB 12 as well. I remember seeing a lot of meatballs down the middle for the first pitch. I always play on veteran though.