first pitch meatballs....bug?

[ParisB]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Edit - no reason to beat a dead horse. Im happy with my tweaks

[fearwhatnow]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Oh my goodness this is getting ridiculous....

Not *every* pitch is fastball down the middle.

Spoiler

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If you are doing exceptionally well down in AA..... I agree that the hitting has gotten quite a bit easier (bigger timing window, larger PCI, etc.) so that it feels like the difficulty is a bit compromised down there. But AA has always been very easy; CPU pitched a lot of meatballs in the past down in AA. If the issue is that it just gotten a bit too easy with the new hitting change, I may agree somewhat.. but to say this is a bug just makes me think you weren't paying attention to RTTS in the past...


What is this mentality of guys having "the game must be bugged" during the launch week? There are of course bugs discovered when tens of thousands of people playing, but just because the game doesn't play to your expectation doesn't mean it's bugged....

I received my copy last Friday and started right away Franchise, Post Season and RTTS games. The weekend I found that I see too many first pitches down the middle. This happened in every mode. All these days I try to find a solution by tweaking the appropriate sliders.
My tests:
1) My first logical test was to power swing at every first pitch when at bat. This test was on all difficulty levels. Results : Managed to get some hits and a couple HR. Then the starting pitcher adapted and started to throw balls on first pitch but after a while the same first pitch pattern occured again, because CPU AI "saw" that I was not chasing these balls.
2) Second test was the dumb way -> I decided not to swing at first pitch. The result was ofc scary but kind of logical: 0-1 every time, first pitch 90%+ down the middle.
3) Time for slider tweaking. Three sliders (control,consistency,strike frequency) :3-3-2. Feels better but again starting cpu pitcher will give you many times a meatball until you manage to get some hits on first pitch. After that adaptive mode comes in and he tries to pitch around the edges or throws some balls especially after 4 and a half innings when confidence and energy drain.
I will try messing around with more slider combinations but my fear is that it's not a bug but a dev gameplay design decision. I'm for sure not a baseball expert (I'm from Greece, no baseball at all there). However, seeing so many first pitches down the middle in Post Season is not good imo. I understand that FB is the main strong pitch type but using it in every first pitch seems awkward and more insane is when it's a meatball so many times. The same happened when SNK was the strong pitch type for the cpu starting pitcher.
As I said I will, later, try some other slider combinations and will go the opposite way: 8+ for accuracy, 8+ for consistency and 0 for strike frequency. This way I'll try minimize the possibility of a first pitch meatball by giving the pitcher an accuracy boost. Logically with the above sliders cpu should aim around the edges. If the "problem" continues I think the devs over at SCEA should look at it and come with a response.
As you see nomo17k I'm not only talking about RTTS. I've played over 30 matchups in Post Season mode facing top SP's. All the above happened. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game, many times I don't even realise a gameplay bug because baseball is non existent where I live. But right here even me I see something weird. Right now I'm always having the mentality to crush the cpu first pitch and that's definitely not good when I succeed easily on top difficulty.

[nomo17k]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what most of the guys in this thread are saying about this pitch down the middle thing. I even recorded gameplay videos just to prove my point... of course those don't mean anything for those who just wish to see only things they want to see....

... so I'll just back off from this thread... it's just a waste of time for me at this point. I reiterate but there is no new info in this thread. It's well known by experience that at lower difficulty strike % is a bit higher... and the game by default is tuned to slightly produce higher strike % anyways.

At HoF and Legend and if you are still claiming that all first pitches are down the middle.... well I'm just totally lost as to how you guys can cherry pick evidence to your favor so much.

[fearwhatnow]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what most of the guys in this thread are saying about this pitch down the middle thing. I even recorded gameplay videos just to prove my point... of course those don't mean anything for those who just wish to see only things they want to see....

... so I'll just back off from this thread... it's just a waste of time for me at this point. I reiterate but there is no new info in this thread. It's well known by experience that at lower difficulty strike % is a bit higher... and the game by default is tuned to slightly produce higher strike % anyways.

At HoF and Legend and if you are still claiming that all first pitches are down the middle.... well I'm just totally lost as to how you guys can cherry pick evidence to your favor so much.

In the 2nd video you posted (Legend difficulty) all first pitches are SFB hit-friendly strikes except a perfect strike slider on the upright corner. They are not exactly in the middle but are very close.
As I posted before, I'm not arguing with you. I can't even tell if that's a bug or something that happens many times irl too.I'm just writing down what I'm seeing and so do the others. It seems weird to me.

[bobtrain]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what most of the guys in this thread are saying about this pitch down the middle thing. I even recorded gameplay videos just to prove my point... of course those don't mean anything for those who just wish to see only things they want to see....

... so I'll just back off from this thread... it's just a waste of time for me at this point. I reiterate but there is no new info in this thread. It's well known by experience that at lower difficulty strike % is a bit higher... and the game by default is tuned to slightly produce higher strike % anyways.

At HoF and Legend and if you are still claiming that all first pitches are down the middle.... well I'm just totally lost as to how you guys can cherry pick evidence to your favor so much.

We are strictly talking FIRST pitches of each AB here. Not overall % of pitches thrown for strike. From what others are saying its more prevalent in RTTS than play now or franchise mode.

It's one thing for that FIRST pitch of an AB to be right down the middle on lower difficulties in an effort to make the game easier. However, as is the case with the screen shots, videos and claims you can't argue that even on high difficulty settings that the FIRST pitch of each AB is too often a strike set right down the middle. Again FIRST pitch of an AB, not overall strike %.

That FIRST pitch is thrown for strike about 80% of the time on high difficulty. the MLB batter typically sees 58% strikes on the FIRST pitch of AB. Now I agree some more slider settings could mediate the issue, but if the game doesn't perform simulation aspects on the highest difficulties for me it's a bit of a buzz kill. Just saying.

[orion523]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I have similar thing. Doesn't always happens, but seems to happen more than it should. Almost like CPU intentionally does that in order to lower their pitch count. Which is why I hate swinging at 1st pitch(cause that's 2-3 less pitches per batter than I should be doing), but hate it more when I don't swing at 1st pitch which is like perfect location for my hitter to hit.

This is the point actually, I posted a link to a discussion talking about this exact issue a few pages back. What it boils down to is this: even though batters know that they're going to get a good pitch to hit most times on the first pitch, 70% of the time they're still going to make an out, so is it better to swing and allow the SP to go deep into games, or let it go and try to wear him down. In MLB the answer seems to be to let it go and wear him out.

[nemesis04]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I don't even have the game, but this problem has me worried a little. I'm not that big into RTTS but a franchise player so that's the area I am interested in most even if this affects both sides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9kC0dgkpjo

In this video the first pitch of every new inning from the CPU (Phillies) is a fastball down/relatively close to the dead center of the plate. I understand pitching to contact and it could be a bad idea to swing at the first pitch and allow the pitcher to not get his pitch count up but it just looks odd once you are aware of it. I don't know what Difficulty this guy is using in the video but I think it should be toned down and they should ocassionaly throw outside the zone first pitch of a new inning to mix things up... I will message Ramone and make a bug post on Show Nation Monday

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I'm just saying in RTTS, AA and AAA are *designed* to be easier, and the game is doing so by lowering the difficulty level for human player. That's what I have been saying. And as everyone who has been playing the game on Rookie/Veteran, CPU pitchers throw more strikes down there (even though it's actually only a couple % more, if you are actually a patient hitter...).

Now, I have no idea how this discussion has expanded to regular gameplay....

I have pointed out numerous times how the discussion expanded to regular gameplay but the continued ignorance of mixing the RTTS problem and the exhibition problem pops up over and over and over. I have literally posted step by step. I have listed the differences between the two separate issues and it gets confused over and over. Its to the point where it has to be, being confused on purpose because i refuse to believe grown men and women could continue to confuse them.

I'll try one more time.

THE PROBLEM In EXHIBITION
In exhibition, the first pitch of an inning is close to always the pitchers #1 pitch, and very high rate of being right down the middle of the plate. I am saying its the first pitch of the inning only that it occurs, and possibly when a reliever comes in. Not every AB.. I have run 70 innings. I played full games on some, and simming to every first AB of an inning for some, same result. Only once was the first pitch of the inning not the pitchers #1 pitch. Only 8 times was the pitch not in the middle of the plate (some are slightly off center), two of those 70 were balls.

A quick way to test is to only face the first pitch of the inning and then sim to the next inning. Keep track along the way. I have done this for many games now and its the pitchers #1 pitch, generally down the middle with the first pitch of the inning only. After that they pitch like they normally would. This is on all-star. Exhibition All-Star


The problem again.

First you know its the first pitch of the inning.

Second, its going to be the pitchers #1 pitch. Which you can often guess it might be anyway but in my testing it was just about every time. Once it wasn't.

Third, then you know its generally down the middle or close. This is the biggest problem as you have something to hammer now. This did vary a little.


The RTTS thing is different. I won't even mention it here because i don't even want to get it confused again.

I reported a bug report on it, if they change it, that's great if they don't then i'll see how it goes. Maybe it is on purpose like one person thought to spark offense.

Recap
I am not saying its every AB in exhibition. So the two guys responding telling me the first strike results for every bat for the game is giving me useless information. I have said over and over that its only the first pitch of the inning. After that its fine.

I'll test this again today. Since no one is actually testing what i am posting its getting really frustrating to continue posting on it. Further information, i have the PSN version of the game if it matters. Using timing hitting. I have used custom and default catcher cam batting views.

[PsychoBulk]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I I am saying its the first pitch of the inning only that it occurs, and possibly when a reliever comes in. Not every AB..

Im going to disagree, in a bad way, bare with me...

I thought, before seeing this thread, that the first pitch strike %age was way too high, i then read this and thought ill do some analysis on my next game.

I was the Nats @ Dodgers, Billingsley was on the hill for them, heres his entire first pitch of each AB result for 7 innings (had to go out then).



A total of 87% first pitch strikes, way too high, and more worryingly, just look how many are meatballs, right down the pipe.

Of the 23 pitches he threw, 18 of which were fastballs (either 4s or 2s), thats 78%, of those just look how many were fat and down the pipe.

As you can see i took some pitches, swung at some, (as taking all pitches is fruitless and proves nothing as of course the CPU will just throw first pitch strikes all the time if you never swing). My hitting results were very poor as it happens, everything found a fielder, but thats beside the point.

I am going to record more data from my next few games, but from what i can see, the issue is this...

The CPU pitcher throws first pitch strike meatballs, mainly fastballs, in the great majority of at bats.

This to me is a problem, a fairly big one, whether it can be rectified by sliders i dont know.

I played on default HOF, so this is NOT an issue of playing on a low level and the game trying to make it easier for me.

Im really not sure what to make of this.

dkrause, you are saying that it is the first pitch of an inning, my feelings and initial data is showing it is the first pitch of EVERY at bat, on the whole, with the odd misnomer.

What to do folks?

[Levesque7]

I made the Majors in June of my first year in RTTS yesterday. I decided to start charting the pitches in a spreadsheet. I'm tracking first pitches of the AB only.

I will be keeping track of strikes vs balls, and also whether or not that strike was a meatball. As a subset of those, I am also tracking which of those in each category are fastballs and which are other pitch types.

I will define meatballs as anything touching the white on the middle section of the zone in the batter analysis screen.

There will be zero subjectivity to this so it should give credible results, not affected by my opinion.

Once I have a big enough sample size, I will post the results here. I will wait until I have at least 100 ABs. (Assuming I don't get sent down)

[UMhester04]

Guys, in your last at bat of a RTTS game, hit select and go to the "batter evaluation". Then go to the bottom where it says "situation" and find the "first pitch" situation. All the first pitches will show up on the right in graphic form. Post those pictures on here. I did the same last night I just didn't take pictures of it.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Im going to disagree, in a bad way, bare with me...

I thought, before seeing this thread, that the first pitch strike %age was way too high, i then read this and thought ill do some analysis on my next game.

I was the Nats @ Dodgers, Billingsley was on the hill for them, heres his entire first pitch of each AB result for 7 innings (had to go out then).



A total of 87% first pitch strikes, way too high, and more worryingly, just look how many are meatballs, right down the pipe.

Of the 23 pitches he threw, 18 of which were fastballs (either 4s or 2s), thats 78%, of those just look how many were fat and down the pipe.

As you can see i took some pitches, swung at some, (as taking all pitches is fruitless and proves nothing as of course the CPU will just throw first pitch strikes all the time if you never swing). My hitting results were very poor as it happens, everything found a fielder, but thats beside the point.

I am going to record more data from my next few games, but from what i can see, the issue is this...

The CPU pitcher throws first pitch strike meatballs, mainly fastballs, in the great majority of at bats.

This to me is a problem, a fairly big one, whether it can be rectified by sliders i dont know.

I played on default HOF, so this is NOT an issue of playing on a low level and the game trying to make it easier for me.

Im really not sure what to make of this.

dkrause, you are saying that it is the first pitch of an inning, my feelings and initial data is showing it is the first pitch of EVERY at bat, on the whole, with the odd misnomer.

What to do folks?

It could well be a high rate for every first pitch AB but also separate for each first pitch of the inning in your next game, please. As what i am listing, could just be skewing the overall numbers you got. It works the other way as well. Someone could get fair numbers on first strikes for every AB and still have the same problem but ignore it because the overall game numbers were ok. What i would like it some apples to apples comparison.

I just played a game on legend using the sim ahead method and all 9 first pitches of the inning was the pitchers #1 pitch. However the location wasn't down the middle as often in this game, one was actually a ball. But its only one game and frankly i cannot bat at the Legend level but i'll test another game on it to see.

[Levesque7]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what most of the guys in this thread are saying about this pitch down the middle thing. I even recorded gameplay videos just to prove my point... of course those don't mean anything for those who just wish to see only things they want to see....

... so I'll just back off from this thread... it's just a waste of time for me at this point. I reiterate but there is no new info in this thread. It's well known by experience that at lower difficulty strike % is a bit higher... and the game by default is tuned to slightly produce higher strike % anyways.

At HoF and Legend and if you are still claiming that all first pitches are down the middle.... well I'm just totally lost as to how you guys can cherry pick evidence to your favor so much.

You are being a hypocrite. You are cherry picking evidence in YOUR favor as well.

I don't think the issue is as bad in other game modes (though it is there in some form), in RTTS, it is noticeable. I play on HOF and have had the game since 08.

Everyone else in this thread is being civil and discussing it and providing evidence. You are doing nothing but belly aching against all those who have a different view from yours.

It may well be that we are blowing this issue up, and it isn't that bad, but that's why we are discussing it and trying to find evidence. We will get a good idea eventually.

You are not providing anything to the discussion by playing the know it all without any real evidence.

[PsychoBulk]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

It could well be a high rate for every first pitch AB but also separate for each first pitch of the inning in your next game, please. As what i am listing, could just be skewing the overall numbers you got. It works the other way as well. Someone could get fair numbers on first strikes for every AB and still have the same problem but ignore it because the overall game numbers were ok. What i would like it some apples to apples comparison.

.

I agree.

Ill do some analysis for each first pitch of an inning, and the first pitch of every AB to boot.

There is absolutely something to this, but we need to document more evidence, as you suggest.