first pitch meatballs....bug?

[jmik58]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I fired up my RTTS last night and played the first 5 games and I think there is a hint of a problem.

I'm playing on All-Star (what I've always done, maybe I need to bump it up this year) by the way.

You can click the link in my signature to see the video of my first game. It's the RTTS Dynasty link.

Every at-bat I received the first-pitch #1 except for two times through the first five games. I believe only twice was the first pitch a ball. I would say that only one or two were meatballs, but I don't believe this is a meatball problem (that sounds odd, but I digress).

Anyways, the first-pitch variety in RTTS seems off and the fact that the first pitch is heavily weighted to be a strike is also a problem. These are from a small observation, and again it's not a grooved pitch issue. But If I can sit on the first pitch and just hack away knowing it's the best pitch I'll see, it does put me in an awkward situation. Sure, I could take the pitch, but to me I'm creating a forced situation by doing that -- I'm pretending the first pitch issue isn't there (if it is in fact an issue).

I've tried messing with sliders and no luck so far. I'm going to test out INCREASING the CPU pitch sliders tonight. I mentioned this previously in another post within this thread, but maybe the problem with minor league pitchers is that when they miss (and they will because their ratings are low) they are punished by tossing too many hittable strikes. If we bump up their sliders perhaps they will pitch smarter or around the zone. Unfortunately, I can't test this out until tonight. If anyone is at home today, give it a shot.

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I think there is a disconnect with how people define the term 'meatball'

borrowing PsychoBulk's picture:



I would say that those 8 pitches in the center of the strike zone are all meatballs. I realize 5 of them resulted in outs but had they all resulted in HRs would the AI really change its first pitch strike behavior?

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I think there is a disconnect with how people define the term 'meatball'

borrowing PsychoBulk's picture:

I would say that those 8 pitches in the center of the strike zone are all meatballs. I realize 5 of them resulted in outs but had they all resulted in HRs would the AI really change its first pitch strike behavior?

I think this is a good question. Does the CPUs tendency recognition span over simmed areas? Is 10 or whatever pitches enough. Would what psycho do be enough to change it. What i would say back is, why doesn't the pitcher then lead every ABs with a #1 pitch, and a centerish strike then? Why does it seem to be the first pitch of an inning at such an increased rate over the rest of the ABs? I don't know. Is it a certain setting i am using?

These are the questions i have been asking myself.

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

My take on things just reading everything here not playing yet is that sliders do not do much to solve the AI's first pitch meatball behavior but increasing hitting difficulty does in RTTS.

This gives more credence to the theory that this is an intentional feature to boost offense for new players.

Is it enough to play RTTS's AA and AAA on legend or hall of fame to solve this, or does it need to be patched because that is not effective enough or causes other issues.

In Exhibition it seems that sliders have more of an impact and combined with hiting difficulty changes this is less of a problem, but again, is it enough or does it constitute something that is broken and needs patching

[go tribe]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

You dont see a fairly obvious problem with this?

yes, you only went 2-8 on so called meatball pitches...

[jmik58]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

My take on things just reading everything here not playing yet is that sliders do not do much to solve the AI's first pitch meatball behavior but increasing hitting difficulty does in RTTS.

This gives more credence to the theory that this is an intentional feature to boost offense for new players.

Is it enough to play RTTS's AA and AAA on legend or hall of fame to solve this, or does it need to be patched because that is not effective enough or causes other issues.

In Exhibition it seems that sliders have more of an impact and combined with hiting difficulty changes this is less of a problem, but again, is it enough or does it constitute something that is broken and needs patching

I believe you've summed it up quite well. We can analyze all we want to, but I think this is an intentionally programmed aspect of RTTS this year. Sliders aren't going to do much for it, hopefully a difficulty bump will.

In years past I remember struggling to wait for a hittable pitch and hoping to hit .300 -- now I can sleep through the first month and hit almost .400 with a player rated "48".

[PVarck31]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

So did we figure out a way to curb this in exhibition play?

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

My take on things just reading everything here not playing yet is that sliders do not do much to solve the AI's first pitch meatball behavior but increasing hitting difficulty does in RTTS.

This gives more credence to the theory that this is an intentional feature to boost offense for new players.

Is it enough to play RTTS's AA and AAA on legend or hall of fame to solve this, or does it need to be patched because that is not effective enough or causes other issues.

In Exhibition it seems that sliders have more of an impact and combined with hiting difficulty changes this is less of a problem, but again, is it enough or does it constitute something that is broken and needs patching

I cannot speak on the RTTS issue other than what i read here but i tend to agree. I actually think it was done in exhibition/franchise to spark offense and accidentally spilled into RTTS as i cannot imagine they wanted every AB to benefit. Now whether its to the point the devs wanted it, i don't know.

I only know what i see. My posts have been to drive others to test it. Then if a consensus was reached to push it to the devs. If they say its on purpose then nothing else can be done and you deal with it, or not play it. If they ignore it, nothing else can be done. If others are not seeing it and tested it, i would ask for their settings as maybe that is the issue for me.

[BrianU]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Did pitchers behave that way first pitch last year in RTTS? I know there wasn't a filter to see first pitch behavior is that the reason it is so apparent this year, did the same thing happen last year just no one realized it?

If it is new to this year, it should have been left in beginner mode imo. There is a bleed between casual and sim which doesn't need to happen. You can please both crowds without meshing them. The Show has tons of options for playing there is no reason there can't be a setting to change first pitch behavior or leave the meatballs in beginner.

It could also be to simulate the differences between facing AA/AAA/MLB pitchers. I believe the devs have good intentions but maybe went too extreme. I don't have AA pitch charts but I can't believe AA pitchers serve meatballs at that rate.

It could be to promote moving up the ranks from AA to AAA to MLB faster, but again, that should be left to our choice. If I want to struggle in AA and make it challenging to move up to the majors I should be able to feel that at the same time someone who doesn't want that experience should be able to blast through to the majors quickly. You can appease both crowds in the same game there is no reason to mesh the two worlds and dilute one crowds gameplay.

[bobtrain]

OK, sorry to be a negative (I really do love this game - huge props to those who helped bring it to life). So here is my only gripe with this particular thread with some arguing against us who see and show proof of a meatball issue. Some are suggesting playing CPU vs. CPU in exhibition to truly see if there is a problem. Isn't the point of playing the game for an actual human to play? I'm sorry, but if it occurred when a human played wouldn't that be enough of an issue? If it's designed by nature to be like this for that fun factor, then we need some confirmation that this is the case.

I also feel those who see this problem in RTTS are being told to not play that mode and test Exhibition. That's ignoring the problem and telling people not to play that mode. It's a little ridiculous to ignore this when I have people commenting on some of my vids complaining as well. I proved pretty solid evidence to the problem in RTTS earlier in thus thread and I recommend looking and that. I don't want to beat a dead horse but it's a little disheartening to see the customer be told they're wrong. However, maybe the first month of RTTS my pitchers are just plain dumb.

[dkrause1971]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I also feel those who see this problem in RTTS are being told to not play that mode and test Exhibition. That's ignoring the problem and telling people not to play that mode.

This really isn't true. I am telling people to test exhibition just to have more testers since we get post after post of people stating what they think without posting what they actually tested. I also think exhibition is easier to test. Its only MLB players, and i feel its the first pitch of an inning and maybe the first pitch of a reliever.

We also get post after post confusing them. I am not telling RTTS people to not test RTTS. Frankly, if i could split this into two threads i would.

Bottomline, without more support this is going to die on the vine. If i was a dev of this game and read this thread i wouldn't know what to believe since the posts are in every direction and conflict with each other. We need more testing, by more people, using the same parameters and methods. Then we can at least present the information to one of the CD guys.

[ParisB]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

Its some kind of bug for sure.

Played 10 games total, All star with default sliders, exhibition Use vs CPU.

The problem isn't just RTTS. There's some kind of relationship. The CPU throws a nice hittable strike to start almost every at bat. First pitch strikes are hovering 90%, with 90% of them being their #1 pitch.

This happens regardless if I rake 5 or 6 hits consecutively. This also happens if I produce outs or take and be patient.

Of course there are guys who refuse to believe it and try to blame the users or Difficulty, but something fishy is happening. All my screenshots looked like psychobulks.

[nomo17k]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

All-star neutral-slider Exhibition Wainwright vs. Verlander. Hitting against CPU for both sides.

Top 1st: Wainwright starts off with a CB down the middle for a strike
Bot 1st: Verlander starts off with a 4SFB middle in for a ball
Top 2nd: Wainwright starts off with a SNK low for a strike (put in play for a single)
Bot 1st: Verlander starts off with a 4SFB high on the black for a strike (fouled off)
Top 3rd: Wainwright starts off with a SNK up and in for a strike (fouled off)
...

gotta stop and go to work now but I just don't see what some of you guys are claiming to see. Just one of the first pitches in the inning were down the middle.

Have not been posting the evidence for my case diligently like this, but that's only because it has been consistently this way for me (not seeing the problems some of you claim to exist).

AI actually doesn't change much on and above All-star. The difference you feel are caused by some other factors (size of PCI, pitch accuracy, etc.).

RTTS involves difficulty change, so that and other modes like exhibition games need to be discussed separately, unless you neutralize the difficulty level by adjusting according to bcruise's finding.

[bobtrain]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

This really isn't true. I am telling people to test exhibition just to have more testers since we get post after post of people stating what they think without posting what they actually tested. I also think exhibition is easier to test. Its only MLB players, and i feel its the first pitch of an inning and maybe the first pitch of a reliever.

We also get post after post confusing them. I am not telling RTTS people to not test RTTS. Frankly, if i could split this into two threads i would.

Bottomline, without more support this is going to die on the vine. If i was a dev of this game and read this thread i wouldn't know what to believe since the posts are in every direction and conflict with each other. We need more testing, by more people, using the same parameters and methods. Then we can at least present the information to one of the CD guys.

Sorry not trying to be difficult, but did you see my earlier post? I posted pretty solid evidence as to the issue in RTTS. Again not sure the logic behind going to Exhibition for more testers because they are MLB players vs. RTTS mode. Are you suggesting that RTTS in AA and AAA is built to serve easy pitches? From reading every post in this thread I'd say a majority are talking about the first pitch of each at-bat in RTTS in AA and AAA. Please look at each post again. I agree there are some confusing posts, but there are some pretty solid ones pointing out this problem. To be honest some of the confusion is that some are being told to go test this mode so then they go post their results and thus we get off track. I don't know, just trying to help here. I see the problem. Others do as well. It would be nice for some transparency into the RTTS CPU pitcher logic in the AA and AAA level so this case can be closed.

[nomo17k]

Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

I am perplexed as to psychobulk's screen shot, because mine doesn't look like that at all. I could see that happening in lower hitting levels or beginner mode, but I don't see pitches like that in my own game, not even close.

*If* there's a bug, then there might be something happening within setting... like when you change the hitting difficulty, it's not reflected on the game somehow. I personally think it's more fruitful to go that route to begin with, to see the difficulty changes are properly reflected or not...

I'm uncharacteristically dismissive in this thread only because I really don't see what you guys see. The game has always been strike happy, but it always has been (most people lower Pitcher control related sliders for realism).