first pitch meatballs....bug?

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  • PsychoBulk
    Hoping for change...
    • May 2006
    • 4191

    #241
    Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

    My most damning evidence yet i would suggest.



    9 out of 13 first pitches absolute meatballs right down the pipe (looks like 8 but there are two red dots on top of each other on the right hand side).

    Proof, clearly, that not EVERY first pitch of an inning is a meatball, as 4 of them were not, but 9 out of 13?

    Thats an extraordinarily high percentage, and completely unrealistic.

    I was on default All-Star, as per the test conditions discussed above, literally swung at every first pitch of an inning then fast forwarded to the next one.

    Not sure why 13 are shown but the important data is quite clearly obvious.

    Thoughts?

    Comment

    • dkrause1971
      All Star
      • Aug 2005
      • 5176

      #242
      Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

      Originally posted by PsychoBulk
      My most damning evidence yet i would suggest.



      9 out of 13 first pitches absolute meatballs right down the pipe (looks like 8 but there are two red dots on top of each other on the right hand side).

      Proof, clearly, that not EVERY first pitch of an inning is a meatball, as 4 of them were not, but 9 out of 13?

      Thats an extraordinarily high percentage, and completely unrealistic.

      I was on default All-Star, as per the test conditions discussed above, literally swung at every first pitch of an inning then fast forwarded to the next one.

      Not sure why 13 are shown but the important data is quite clearly obvious.

      Thoughts?
      This is what i was saying earlier, you will get more pitches shown than you actually faced. I am not sure why that is happening, i had some ideas earlier in the thread on why, but i couldn't pinpoint why. It actually makes it looks like less than a problem than is it (although it still looks really bad). Problem is without video taping it its the only way you can show the issue in a way that most would believe.

      Thank you for the picture and testing. Were all pitches, the pitchers #1 pitch? Of the ones you recall facing, the extra pitches in the picture would skew that some. I would suggest facing a pitcher who's #1 pitch is something different, like Shields with a changeup.
      Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-07-2013, 05:37 PM.
      Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

      Comment

      • sydrogerdavid
        MVP
        • May 2009
        • 3109

        #243
        Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

        Could it be that they are just throwing get-me-over strikes? Maybe these pitchers also kept throwing them right down the middle because they kept getting you out on them? There is more red there than green.

        Comment

        • dkrause1971
          All Star
          • Aug 2005
          • 5176

          #244
          Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

          Originally posted by sydrogerdavid
          Could it be that they are just throwing get-me-over strikes? Maybe these pitchers also kept throwing them right down the middle because they kept getting you out on them? There is more red there than green.
          That is possible and reasonable, when you start to do it for many games like i have i think it starts to go out the window. Even if the CPU reading of human tendency carries thru CPU fast forwards. You do not find this in other ABs at this rate, also i have had games where the first 3-4 times i have had hits and it still occurs. I would think you would see a larger pitch variety as well.
          Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-07-2013, 05:45 PM.
          Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

          Comment

          • N51_rob
            Faceuary!
            • Jul 2003
            • 14805

            #245
            Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

            Originally posted by PsychoBulk
            My most damning evidence yet i would suggest.



            9 out of 13 first pitches absolute meatballs right down the pipe (looks like 8 but there are two red dots on top of each other on the right hand side).

            Proof, clearly, that not EVERY first pitch of an inning is a meatball, as 4 of them were not, but 9 out of 13?

            Thats an extraordinarily high percentage, and completely unrealistic.

            I was on default All-Star, as per the test conditions discussed above, literally swung at every first pitch of an inning then fast forwarded to the next one.

            Not sure why 13 are shown but the important data is quite clearly obvious.

            Thoughts?
            The bigger problem I am seeing is that the pitchers are serving them up because they are getting outs. I am seeing that a lot too. Balls that should be getting killed are routine outs. If I were to throw my pitches in the same tight grouping to the CPU there would be a lot more green and very little red. Seems like the CPU is getting away with being in the heart of the plate.
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            • Bobhead
              Pro
              • Mar 2011
              • 4926

              #246
              Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

              Does someone feel like doing this:

              Following the same old, default all-star etc... start an exhibition game.

              Go to select teams, switch to the middle so that it's a CPU vs CPU game. Allow the CPU to hit the very first pitch.
              Take back control, fast forward. Repeat

              Alternatively, try jacking up the Human Power and Solid Hits sliders so that you are capable of crushing everything in the middle, then swing at the pitches yourself.

              This way we can see if the issue is in the AI side, or the CPU actively does it because "it can", with a lack consequence, as described in the post directly above...
              Last edited by Bobhead; 03-07-2013, 05:56 PM.

              Comment

              • PsychoBulk
                Hoping for change...
                • May 2006
                • 4191

                #247
                Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                There is a home run in there, you can see the "4", Quentin hit a bomb.

                I honestly dont believe, from what ive seen, that it makes any difference whatsoever whether you hit the CPU hard or not off these meatballs, they simply continue to throw them.

                We need more analysis like this to perhaps solidify the point.

                Comment

                • metal134
                  MVP
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 1420

                  #248
                  Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                  Originally posted by sydrogerdavid
                  Could it be that they are just throwing get-me-over strikes? Maybe these pitchers also kept throwing them right down the middle because they kept getting you out on them? There is more red there than green.
                  And if one (and by one, I mean me) keeps swinging at them and smacking them for double after double, yet STILL consistently get them, then what?
                  A screaming comes across the sky...

                  Comment

                  • dkrause1971
                    All Star
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 5176

                    #249
                    Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                    Originally posted by Bobhead
                    Does someone feel like doing this:

                    Following the same old, default all-star etc... start an exhibition game.

                    Go to select teams, switch to the middle so that it's a CPU vs CPU game. Allow the CPU to hit the very first pitch.
                    Take back control, fast forward. Repeat

                    Alternatively, try jacking up the Human Power and Solid Hits sliders so that you are capable of crushing everything in the middle, then swing at the pitches yourself.

                    This way we can see if the issue is in the AI side, or the CPU actively does it because "it can", with a lack consequence, as described in the post directly above...
                    CPU Vs CPU
                    Cubs vs Atl- vs Medlin. Exhibition- First pitch of inning only
                    Garza pitched 6 innings- all pitches were #1 pitch. Two were meatballs, five were strikes, 1 was a ball.

                    Bowden pitched the 7th- threw his #1 pitch, was a strike

                    Takahashi pitched the 8th- threw his #1 pitch, was a meatball.

                    Total for Chicago- #1 pitch threw all innings (8), 3 i listed as a meatball. 7 were strikes, 1 was a ball


                    Atlanta
                    Medlin- pitched 8 innings. All pitches were his #1 pitch, 1 was a meatball, 7 were strikes, 1 ball

                    Kimbrel- pitched the 9th, Threw his #1 pitch, was a strike
                    Total for Atlanta- #1 pitch thrown all innings (9), 1 meatball, 8 strikes, 1 ball

                    Notes- i am defining meatball by the ball in the middle square, fully or partially
                    Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-07-2013, 06:36 PM.
                    Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

                    Comment

                    • Bobhead
                      Pro
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 4926

                      #250
                      Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                      I started a game, jacked the human batting sliders ONLY... to make sure I was punishing pitches down the middle.
                      It was Hall of Fame batting difficulty, Exhibition mode, against an MLB team.
                      All other sliders were on default.
                      My procedure was as follows:
                      1. I started a game
                      2. Took control of the side batting.
                      3. Swung at the first pitch, with the intention of hitting it.
                      4. Immediately fast forwarded to the next half inning.
                      5. Repeated steps 2-4 until the game ended.

                      Each picture is followed by a duplicate with the pitch type labels, so you can see how many of the pitches were fastballs (hint: all of them)





                      Last edited by Bobhead; 03-07-2013, 07:15 PM.

                      Comment

                      • PsychoBulk
                        Hoping for change...
                        • May 2006
                        • 4191

                        #251
                        Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                        1 ball from 24 pitches, 23 strikes.

                        Not good at all from a realism standpoint, at least they weren't all meatballs but still, clear evidence that default CPU pitching is way off, sliders needed.

                        Comment

                        • StylinStarlin88
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 13

                          #252
                          Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                          I agree with most that there are way too many first pitch strikes so far. But you have to keep in mind that if you are playing RTTS you're in AA, wait till you get to AAA and MLB and we'll see how many first pitch strikes we'll get once pitchers around the league know who we are.

                          I am in my 18th game in RTTS and had to bump the difficulty up to HOF and tweak the sliders a bit because hitting seems a bit easier, and I expected that when the announcement came out about the "Wider Timing Window" and "Beginner mode" so it was expected the mode might get a little easier, just hoping I don't have to jump to Legend and pray that's hard enough

                          Comment

                          • merchant1874
                            MVP
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 1337

                            #253
                            Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                            Is this exclusively an All Star thing?

                            I just played a couple of games on HOF and didn't see this at all I have a pic too if you want to see it. (Sorry for quality taken with phone for quickness).

                            Again don't know why it is showing more pitches than I faced.






                            Comment

                            • Bobhead
                              Pro
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 4926

                              #254
                              Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                              Originally posted by merchant1874
                              Is this exclusively an All Star thing?

                              I just played a couple of games on HOF and didn't see this at all I have a pic too if you want to see it. (Sorry for quality taken with phone for quickness).

                              Again don't know why it is showing more pitches than I faced.
                              I meant to say, my pictures above were from HoF difficulty, so it's weird that you don't see it and I did.

                              As for the analysis screen adding pitches, I think it's something to do with the simulation engine. I didn't spend too much time investigating since that's not what this thread is about, but it seems like the Fast Forward thing adds another first pitch in there, if that pitch ends up being the final pitch of the at-bat, or something like that. I just know that after swinging, I'd pause, check the analysis screen, and it'd say like, 8 pitches. Then I fast forwarded and checked again (before swinging), and it'd say 9.

                              Comment

                              • BrianU
                                MVP
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 1565

                                #255
                                Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                                Originally posted by Bobhead
                                I started a game, jacked the human batting sliders ONLY... to make sure I was punishing pitches down the middle.
                                It was Hall of Fame batting difficulty, Exhibition mode, against an MLB team.
                                All other sliders were on default.
                                My procedure was as follows:
                                1. I started a game
                                2. Took control of the side batting.
                                3. Swung at the first pitch, with the intention of hitting it.
                                4. Immediately fast forwarded to the next half inning.
                                5. Repeated steps 2-4 until the game ended.

                                Each picture is followed by a duplicate with the pitch type labels, so you can see how many of the pitches were fastballs (hint: all of them)





                                Great work detective!

                                Now we have to check each variable one by one. The guy above me posted his findings on Hall of fame could you try that out with your same method when you have a chance and let us know how it goes?

                                Comment

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