Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
Bcruise, was that all the same pitcher, doesnt who you face and their H/9 affect your PCI?
Bcruise, was that all the same pitcher, doesnt who you face and their H/9 affect your PCI?
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
The problem is that has nothing to do with first pitch of the inning (speaking exhibition) sticking out compared to the rest of the inning. Lets go with more fat pitches based on lower difficulty. I don't doubt that, i have heard that before. Based on what you are showing this would happen thru each AB thru the game though. It wouldn't lead to a pitchers #1 pitch thrown on the first pitch of the inning practically everytime, and it being a strike (often in the middle of the zone) most the time.Alright, here goes.
To begin with, I created a test player on RTTS with the following ratings (and didn't mess with any training):
CON L 41
CON R 39
POW L 25
POW R 25
CLT 35
VIS 40
DISC 40
BUNT 20
DBUNT 10
SPD 55
DUR 55
REAC 40
BR ABL 25
BR AGG 20
ARM 40
ACC 40
FLD 40
Not that any of the fielding stuff matters for this, but I just wanted to ensure everything was the same. I went into his first appearance, noted the AA pitcher he was facing, and took screenshots of the PCI at every difficulty (using the classic zone interface we're all familiar with).
Then I exited out of RTTS and created a player with the exact same attributes as the RTTS guy. I imported him onto the same AA team he was on, and started an exhibition game vs. the same pitcher as in RTTS. It's important to do that because a pitcher's attributes influence the size of a hitter's PCI.
This was the result:
Legend RTTS:
Spoiler
Legend Exhibition:
Spoiler
HOF RTTS:
Spoiler
HOF Exhibition:
Spoiler
AllStar RTTS:
Spoiler
AllStar Exhibition:
Spoiler
I did the other two as well, but they start getting pretty close together beyond this point as it's monstrous on both modes.
What does it mean? Well, if you see what I see, Legend RTTS and HOF Exhibition look pretty much identical to one another. As do HOF RTTS and AllStar Exhibition. I did those spoiler tags for more reason than just not cluttering the thread - it makes for much easier side-by-side comparisons.
PCI coverage is an average of a hitter's contact and vision, modified by the pitcher's attributes (strategy guide quote). But as you can see, it's also modified by difficulty level. And I think this shows that with everything else equal, a difficulty shift is causing that PCI change. And if it goes down a level for AA, it's not a reach to think it goes up 1 for the other extreme - MLB.
As you guys know, lower difficulties = more fat pitches, so if you were testing on all-star in AA RTTS, the reality is that you were testing on Veteran if all this is correct. Veteran is a hit parade this year because of the opened-up timing window and the CPU throwing more strikes, so it's no surprise that people would be seeing more meatballs.
TL : DR - I believe RTTS counts AAA as the "base level", lowering the selected difficulty by 1 in AA, playing it straight on AAA, and raising it by 1 in MLB. The latter two parts of that are merely a theory on my part, that can only be proven by someone who's made it to the upper levels.
How about it Nomo? Did I nail it?
I mentioned this a few pages back, but i did jump to legend to do some first pitch an inning exhibition testing and the pitch locations were more varied in a three game sample than my all-star testing. Granted all 27 or so pitches were the pitchers #1 pitch and i think 25 of them were strikes but they were more varied in the strike zone. That could be seen as better. The same pitch and a very high strike percentage i think makes it about the same. Plus, most of us couldn't play on legend.
Interesting work and pictures but i don't think its fits the exhibition first pitch discussion. It would fit a high strike rate overall discussion. I am glad to see more and more testing things out.Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-07-2013, 09:36 PM.Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesarComment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
It does indeed, and as I said, I made absolutely sure it was the same guy. This one:
Spoiler
I even went so far to confirm this, that I cloud saved my Vita RTTS and temporarily sent my Vita roster to the vault, in order to get both onto the the PS3 (making it much quicker and easier to test). I first picked up on this while playing on the Vita version, but figured the evidence would be much clearer on the PS3.Comment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
I get that, and I get that you're trying to get the thread back on track. But the topic of this being more prevalent in RTTS (some claiming that's all first pitch meatballs and more than exhibition in general) has definitely had its place in this thread, and that's what I was addressing. If those people were really playing on a difficulty equal to one below what they thought they were (especially an All-Star > Veteran shift), then I could totally see the complaint being valid, as pitchers throw a ton of meatballs on Vet.
I don't have an answer for you for what you guys are seeing and testing on exhibition. I'll go ahead and give it an upvote though, now that there's some real tangible evidence being posted that supports it.Comment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
^ Oh yeah... What was the link the this meatball bug report again? That should really be edited into the OP or at least someone's post on the first page.
I'll go upvote too i suppose.Comment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
It warms my heart when you test things.It does indeed, and as I said, I made absolutely sure it was the same guy. This one:
Spoiler
I even went so far to confirm this, that I cloud saved my Vita RTTS and temporarily sent my Vita roster to the vault, in order to get both onto the the PS3 (making it much quicker and easier to test). I first picked up on this while playing on the Vita version, but figured the evidence would be much clearer on the PS3.
You are very comprehensive and you consider all of the variables. Thank you for sharing that.
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
After playing my first 20 games on All-Star I realized there were too many first pitch strikes and hitting was much too easy for me, now that I moved up to HOF and tweaked the sliders a bit, I am having much more realistic results.
Here is a screenshot of my last game, showing the first pitch strike percentage, and this is what most of my 10 games on HOF in RTTS have been like.
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
Just my two cents:
I think the first best method in accurately testing this would be to do it only in CPU vs. CPU games. Default AS (not that difficulty matters in CPU vs. CPU mode), Default sliders. MLB leve. Fast-forwarding after every first pitch of every half inning.
Since Human tendencies are NOT tracked on a game-to-game basis (I asked at CD. The AI only tracks your patterns for the duration of one game and one game only. Afterwards, it's a blank slate), game mode should not matter. Ideally, I'd say ten games against the same two teams would be more than sufficient, as long as it went in order of using the 1-5 pitchers (using only two teams would make it easier to track the pitcher's real life first pitch strike percentages, though I honestly doubt "first pitch of an inning" percentage is an easily findable stat!), meaning two starts for each of the team's five pitchers.
Every first pitch of every inning needs to be recorded (written down or visually captured using Dkrause's method of defining a meatball/strike/ball). This would equal two pitches per inning, unless the games goes into extra innings.
Again, just my opinion. If there is indeed a logic issue that needs to be addressed, it would be prevelant in CPU mode because the same logic is used. If there is NOT an issue in CPU games, but someone can prove there is while a Human is playing, than that would mean there is a bug only rearing it's head when a Human is actually playing. By the way, logic issues and bugs are two completely different things.
I'd like to see some consistency and validity in this thread. Right now it's a mess (outside of a few of you). I offer no concrete opinion, but will do so after I play more.Last edited by Heroesandvillains; 03-07-2013, 10:41 PM.Comment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
I must be missing something, did you have 10 at bats or are some of those first pitches from your teammates' AB's?After playing my first 20 games on All-Star I realized there were too many first pitch strikes and hitting was much too easy for me, now that I moved up to HOF and tweaked the sliders a bit, I am having much more realistic results.
Here is a screenshot of my last game, showing the first pitch strike percentage, and this is what most of my 10 games on HOF in RTTS have been like.
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
I said I'm backing off from this thread, and still don't find the discussion here intriguing enough to do fuller testing myself (I'm actually a testing nerd... the issue just needs to be interesting enough to test)... but after being called out a hypocrite an that I actually add absolutely nothing to the thread, it got a bit to my nerve... so instead of creating another account (thinking of going with username lonelygirl48), here's my cursory attempt.
HoF hitting against CPU with neutral sliders in an exhibition game. I just don't see problem with first pitches down the middle.
SpoilerComment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
Well... why don't you collect the data yourself??? ... like I spend an hour playing and editing video just to prove a point that I never really agreed with to begin with.... I find it very unfortunate that the loudest people in this sort of issue never really takes a sound approach in proving that the issue that they claim to exist really exist....
In that game in the video, the first pitch in an inning was NOT always meat pitches. In fact, there were a couple curve balls out of the zone to start with as well...Last edited by nomo17k; 03-08-2013, 01:40 AM.Comment
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Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?
Yeah bcruise delivers again.... there's something special in being a member since 2004 without ever being banned here.... hahha just kidding. makes me wonder how you choose to be a Cub fan when you come up with such a clever idea to find this out.... you must be intelligent enough to be a Met fan, you know what I mean??Alright, here goes.
To begin with, I created a test player on RTTS with the following ratings (and didn't mess with any training):
...
TL : DR - I believe RTTS counts AAA as the "base level", lowering the selected difficulty by 1 in AA, playing it straight on AAA, and raising it by 1 in MLB. The latter two parts of that are merely a theory on my part, that can only be proven by someone who's made it to the upper levels.
How about it Nomo? Did I nail it?
This is actually quite interesting and I wanted to know exactly how the levels change as well... . I was guessing the difficulty level was anchored at the MLB level but it looks like I was wrong.
This is a good thing to know to make CPU pitch at a desired level. Thanks for sharing... (though people are now talking about different issues I guess.....)
I heard that levels are varied this way to give us some feel of being challenged as you go up the ladder in the organization.Comment
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