My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

[ty5oke]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

If we are talking about stat tracking, we have to include the following must haves for all of us virtual managers...

Individual batter Vs. Individual pitcher stats (Both single season and career)
Individual pitcher vs individual batter stats (Both single season and career)
pitcher home/road splits
pitcher day/night splits
Batter home/road splits
batter day/night splits
batters stats for every stadium played in
pitcher stats for every stadium played in
Team Vs. Team stats - including home road splits and day and night splits for both teams

Well that is all i can think of a tthis moment. of course for many of you that know me i have been barking up this tree for several years since heck ASB 05 on through now...

i can't understand how we have STATS INC. as our stat company for this game but not have them drop their entire data base into our game... wouldn't that make sense???

Having stats for the sake of looking at them is one thing, but I would prefer them to actually mean something. If Mike Trout begins hitting RHP at a .150 clip for 2 years, I want to see his contact vs RHP start to go down.

imo, the stats need to mean something in the game otherwise they are just numbers.

[g-burn]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Having stats for the sake of looking at them is one thing, but I would prefer them to actually mean something. If Mike Trout begins hitting RHP at a .150 clip for 2 years, I want to see his contact vs RHP start to go down.

imo, the stats need to mean something in the game otherwise they are just numbers.

Agreed. I don't think The Show is programed for players to be affected by day/night conditions, ball park dimensions, or have issues with specific pitches or pitchers. I'll take any stats they can throw at me, but many of those super specific stats would be purely cosmetic at this point.

[bp4baseball]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Having stats for the sake of looking at them is one thing, but I would prefer them to actually mean something. If Mike Trout begins hitting RHP at a .150 clip for 2 years, I want to see his contact vs RHP start to go down.

imo, the stats need to mean something in the game otherwise they are just numbers.

I think it needs (and probably already does) work the other way. If Mike Trout begins hitting RHP at a .150 clip for 2 years, it's because his contact vs RHP started to go down. The stats on the field are representative of a players skill level, not the other way around. The advantage of detailed stats is they give better insight into a players ability in different areas of the game

[ty5oke]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I think it needs (and probably already does) work the other way. If Mike Trout begins hitting RHP at a .150 clip for 2 years, it's because his contact vs RHP started to go down. The stats on the field are representative of a players skill level, not the other way around. The advantage of detailed stats is they give better insight into a players ability in different areas of the game

Maybe I didn't write that correctly, I didn't mean to say the stats were driving the rating changes. I just want to see correlation between the two.

I don't have the PS3 anymore but I wonder if anyone knows if that's how it works. If you sim 3 seasons and see some of the stars struggle in one area of stats, is he struggling because of ratings decreasing? From the OOTP side, I almost solely pay attention to advances stats to decide if I think a player is due to progress or regress in the future, with The Show, never feel like that is going to happen. Maybe because that's just the difference between a text-sim vs user-input game and I'll have to live with it.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Maybe I didn't write that correctly, I didn't mean to say the stats were driving the rating changes. I just want to see correlation between the two.

I don't have the PS3 anymore but I wonder if anyone knows if that's how it works. If you sim 3 seasons and see some of the stars struggle in one area of stats, is he struggling because of ratings decreasing? From the OOTP side, I almost solely pay attention to advances stats to decide if I think a player is due to progress or regress in the future, with The Show, never feel like that is going to happen. Maybe because that's just the difference between a text-sim vs user-input game and I'll have to live with it.

I like the sim engine. Remember that stats are in some instances dependant on luck. Players can hit the ball hard but bat avg. On balls in play may be low.

Good players can have low averages some years due to luck...like great pitchers can have few wins and higher era.

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[SwedishTouch76]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

This a tad off topic so I apologize. But does tie in to stats. On mlb2k I could scroll left with the dpad to see a batters average vs each pitch. Giving me a sense how to work him. How do I do that on The Show?

[dcmantommy72]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I wanted to bump this thread because this is an area of the game that really needs attention.
Not only carry over stats,

Show season stats in the post season. (I dont like having to reload an old save just to scout the team im about to play for the world series)

Show more historical stats of current players. (Granted you can jus go online and see them but it cant take up that much to have it in game)

Also now this is more of a core game design flaw but inflated batting averages get annoying 10 years into a franchise.

[CaseIH]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

This is going to be more of a rant than anything. I just want to know if there is anyone else out there who is bothered by the lack of detail SCE puts into the stat tracking for The Show. Stats are just as much a part of enjoying baseball as actually watching and playing it. So why are we only given the bare minimum stats?

The core of the Franchise experience is building a winning team from scratch while locating and cultivating talent. Franchise players, like myself, appreciate being able to look back and see a players past stats, like OPS, runs scored, k/bb, or stolen bases when building a team. They provide you with more intricate performance data than just player ratings. To me, player ratings are like scouting reports. Scouting reports should be used as more of a supplement than as the paramount factor in choosing a player. Real world GM's do make extensive use of scouting reports to build their teams, but they rely most heavily on statistical data when judging a player. Stats indicate what the player HAS done while scouting reports show what they CAN do. Both are essential and neither more so than the other. Because franchise players can really only rely on what amount to scouting reports, the experience of building a team is very much lacking in The Show.

Franchises can be played for decades (in game) and the experience just as much about the journey as it is about the result. Sometimes it's nice to have an in depth, historical record to look back on from time to time to see how far your players and team have come. I'd like to be able to look back at my previous player's 40/40 season or 60 double season every now and then. I feel like much of my hard work is erased at the conclusion of a season.

I hope they revamp stat tracking for the new PS4 generations. I've heard stat tracking can be a system hog and The Show doesn't keep many stats to improve performance. I don't really buy that. MVP baseball had fantastic stat tracking and that game is now 2 generations old. So please SCE, let's get it together and make MLB 14 The Show the most in depth Franchise experience yet and really beef up that stat tracking.

This is the only thing that they really lack on with this game. Baseball is stats driven, more so than any other sport, so it would be nice if they would do a better job in this area.

[jmaj315]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Agreed. I don't think The Show is programed for players to be affected by day/night conditions, ball park dimensions, or have issues with specific pitches or pitchers...

actually, im pretty sure that the show is programmed to be affected by day/night conditions. In our league there were many deep fly balls that died out on the warning track at night, but it would seem that those same swings flew easily out of the park during the day.

[rymflaherty]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I literally have a notebook full of stats for my Show Franchises, so yup, I can get behind some more detailed in-game stat tracking.

If not, well than I'll just have to stick to my current method. The only drawback is that I only really keep track of my own team/minors, and then other key things like league leaders, award winners, standings, etc.
So I wind up with a full retrospective of my own teams history, but I miss out on the other teams...and as you said those numbers aren't just for people like me who love stats, but can be valuable when signing players and making roster moves. And personally I find it even more important in the Show, because more than any other sporting game, I've seen variance in the statistics, and it doesn't wind up consistent year-to-year or specifically defined by player ratings or attributes in a specific category.

So yes some of the limitations of stat-tracking have bugged me....For instance is it really hard to include what team they played for on the back of a player card for each year?,,,,,but the game has been so great, I'll continue with my archaic notebook method if need be.


*EDIT* Another thing I have always done is create a new save file after every season. I leave the other untouched which allows me to go back and check stats and what not. Again, it's not efficient or optimal, but it's another work-around to create your own archive.

[twinsfan34]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I'm with the "Stats are lacking" group. Byt that, I mean historical year over year stats. They do keep track of the last 7 years on the player card in AB, H, HR, RBI, and if you are the resign/trade a player, SB career totals can also be seen. You can't break the all-time runs record though, so that's not tracked. I kept track on paper and it isn't tracked in the game.

The other frustrating things.

1) season stats disappear once playoffs start
2) minor league stats disappear once you jump a level (A-->AA, or AAA--> MLB, etc)

The other part, it's hard to find guys who have fallen off the map.

I'd like Active versus Career lists.

If I can sign Joey Votto at age 38 as a PH here and there or something to get him to a milestone I'd like to do that. It seems, players on other teams, just get traded around and forgotten and it's often only age age 32-33.

That said, I LOVE the stat engine. I bought 2K13 just a month ago to play with their stats engine and to figure out how their created players/minor leagues are. They have Class A/A+ teams, it's pretty cool to play with Byron Buxton at class A+ Ft. Myers Miracle. But the graphics of the player, not as good as THE SHOW.

But the stats are kept and you see Level: AA next to his stats as he moves on through the classes. It's great.

I love more pitching matchup stats and I like the idea of sabermetrics like numbers - but unless they're going OBP+, Linear Weights, WAR (fWAR or bWAR), ERA+, etc they're not really hitting Sabermetrics stats that are particularly relevant to the SABR community. The stats that are more relevant to managers and pitching coaches (just went to a SABR meeting a few weeks ago where Rangers pitching coach Mike Maddux spoke) - it's their AVG against pitch types (curveballs, fastballs, changeups, forkballs) and average against counts. Maddux plain out said if a guy his hitting .380 against fastballs and .127 against curveballs, by golley, he's going to see a LOT of curveballs, if not exclusively.

So there's something to be said about stats for people trying to have a better GAME experience, stats for a better SEASON performance, and also stats to compare ACROSS SEASONS/CAREERS. Right now, THE SHOW does best with the season experience. Which is seen in some matchup stats and just having a leaderboard. But after that...meh. They don't do much.

I'd personally say, just do one thing well. I don't buy the coding problem. I program in PHP and SQL and am a backend DBA guy as well as doing some stuff in Python and R. It's not that hard to incorpate code into saving seasons - they've added a bunch of stats that are more difficult than retaining season info. And these guys are not 'average' programmers - much like myself.

I'd say, just do the year-over-year stats the best. As one guy earlier mentioned, STATS Inc is a quick fix and have a lot of development guys that would easily help out THE SHOW make the transition. Most people in the stats community of baseball, love to help. You'll find TONS of resources to learn to code if you want to play with data. From the Sean Lahman database to Retrosheet (play-by-play) back to the 1950's...and many of these guys have PhD's in programming or engineering and do almost everything for free.

If there is somehow a 'space' issue (I don't know the qualities of the disk) but I do know PS3's have a lot of memory space - but if they want to cater to a 'graphical game user' type, maybe they keep killing the graphics side of things in the PS4...and they let the PS3 side be the stats side, for those of us who are "just fine" with the current graphics of the Green Monster. I don't really need to see the scoreboad overlay personally...it's not that big of a deal - I wouldn't be able to see it at the actual game and even so, I'd be checking Yahoo Sportacular for game updates, not the Green Monster wall scoreboard.

[g-burn]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

With the fact sheet that just came out, I see they have in fact expanded the amount of trackable stats in 14. I'm a little worried to only see they've only specified the expansion for online franchise though. I hope single player hasn't been overlooked yet again. Does anybody know if you can play online franchise by yourself and exclude the multiplayer component? I will jump through hoops if I can get a single player franchise experience with all the stat tracking I've been pining for since the PS2 days.

[Jibbler]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

a few things Id like to see with stats are


with League leaders there is no option to see who is the leading OBP and a few other stats.


Also when you wanna search for leaders for OBP you can only sort by who is the stat leader via your team, there should be a option to check out national league leaders American league leaders and ENTIRE LEAGUE. so we can't see league leaders for minor stats, they only give us AVG ERA all the main stats, but not the ones that really do matter like OBP

[soxnut1018]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Something that has begun to bother me more an more is the lack of advanced stats. Nobody in front offices looks at stats like batting avg, home runs, and RBIs anymore. I get that they are a part of presentation, but I'd love to see stats like WPA+, WAR, wOBA, and xFIP. The advanced stats DLC they released a couple of years ago didn't really add any more useful stats, just more complicated ones.

[seanjeezy]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Something that has begun to bother me more an more is the lack of advanced stats. Nobody in front offices looks at stats like batting avg, home runs, and RBIs anymore. I get that they are a part of presentation, but I'd love to see stats like WPA+, WAR, wOBA, and xFIP. The advanced stats DLC they released a couple of years ago didn't really add any more useful stats, just more complicated ones.

The ones added through DLC were actually primitive versions of the stuff you see on Fangraphs. The only place you can find them is on ESPN because for some odd reason they like to come up with their own stats lol