My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Yeah 2K's is pretty much perfect, both the player card and the general stats screen.

I wouldn't disagree at all.

They have an excellent franchise on their hands. It's not up to the caliber of The Show (haven't touched 2K since March 31! LOL!), but it's damn close.

[RedSoxFox7]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Yeah 2K's is pretty much perfect, both the player card and the general stats screen.

For as much hate as they got, 2K did a lot right, and honestly wasn't far off from having a really good game. They just never seemed to give a damn about actually fixing anything instead of issuing a $60 roster update in the last 3 or so years.

If 2K had been able to get their franchise sim engine doing anything respectable, I might never have bought a PS3. Instead, they didn't touch it at all, and you had things like relief pitchers throwing 140+ IP with 20+ wins and all sorts of other totally unrealistic oddities.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

For as much hate as they got, 2K did a lot right, and honestly wasn't far off from having a really good game. They just never seemed to give a damn about actually fixing anything instead of issuing a $60 roster update in the last 3 or so years.

If 2K had been able to get their franchise sim engine doing anything respectable, I might never have bought a PS3. Instead, they didn't touch it at all, and you had things like relief pitchers throwing 140+ IP with 20+ wins and all sorts of other totally unrealistic oddities.

NBA 2K, my man. Unless people are mixing up their franchises here. LOL!

[RedSoxFox7]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

NBA 2K, my man. Unless people are mixing up their franchises here. LOL!

I was talking about MLB2K. It got a lot of hate, but their approach to stat tracking and presentation beat out The Show by a large margin.

[twinsfan34]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

Well the franchise files are already being saved to the HDD anyway (or a thumb drive, which isn't terribly relevant), but they're tiny. There is the possibility a poorly designed database would take noticeably longer to load if it were larger, but I don't buy the PS3 hardware is incapable of doing it quickly when 2K was capable of maintaining extensive historical records.

As far as the advanced stats, my biggest problem is that they're not easily accessible to compare more than just your team. You can't look at league leaders in basestealing runs, or how all CFs compare in Range Factor, or anything else that might be of interest to see how your players compare to to scope out potential trade targets.

Beyond that, I think the reasoning behind which advanced stats we have is twofold:

1) Getting anything like OPS+, ERA+, WAR, true FIP/xFIP, etc. would be very processor intensive to cross reference the entire league, correct for park/league factors, and spit out stats relative to the rest of the league. I think all of the stats in the game are linear weights stats, which cuts down on that processing significantly. This might actually be something that's fixable with PS4, but I suspect is a bear to code and probably not worth the man-hours required to SCEA.

2) I think SCEA might have some copyright concerns in using statistics created by others, and even if there aren't legitimate copyright claims, it's not worth the potential exposure and/or negotiations. That's why we see basestealing runs, a linear weights formula (+0.3*SB, -0.6*CS), that doesn't use weights anything close to what's been found by Pete Palmer (+0.22*SB, -0.38*CS) or Jim Furtado (+0.18*SB, -0.32*CS). I still have no idea what the Hoban Efficiency Quotient is, if it's statistically meaningful at all, or how they tracked down Hoban to license it (if they had to).

Understanding the platform limitations, I'd be OK with linear weights for everything if they just weren't presented in such an un-useful manner - and I still want a Total Runs metric, which means something other than Range Factor to evaluate fielding.

Woah...Pete Palmer and Linear Weights?!

I didn't see a Tom Tango...or a SABR in there, but you're speaking my language. Probably a bit much for OS Forums, but I love where you're heading and I agree across the board.

Sortable leaders.

Also, as a DB developer, the memory isn't the case - as you said, it saves to the hard drive and now-a-days database storage systems are more streamlined than ever. Data is cheap as well. I'd reckon 1-2 jerseys would cover ALL the stats needed for 20 years of baseball players.

[twinsfan34]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

For as much hate as they got, 2K did a lot right, and honestly wasn't far off from having a really good game. They just never seemed to give a damn about actually fixing anything instead of issuing a $60 roster update in the last 3 or so years.

If 2K had been able to get their franchise sim engine doing anything respectable, I might never have bought a PS3. Instead, they didn't touch it at all, and you had things like relief pitchers throwing 140+ IP with 20+ wins and all sorts of other totally unrealistic oddities.

Agree. if it wasn't for these sorts of stats, I'd play 2K13. Graphics side unquestionably better in The Show...but the stats side of things...unquestionably better in 2K. If only they had a good sim engine for realistic stats.

They even keep minor league stats well...

[dnelson2473]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I have bought every version of The Show for many years, because it has always been the best looking with the best gameplay. I was willing to overlook the lacking stats and customization abilities, but it's been long enough that there is just no excuse anymore.

I am beyond frustrated at SCEA this year with the MLB 14 release. They flat out lied about player cards containing more stats in Franchise mode. Apparently, they added a few extra stats to online franchise only. It's unbelievable to me that a baseball game has such terrible stat tracking. It's the most stat-obsessive sport in the world. They could literally change NOTHING about next years game except for adding in career major league and minor league stats that go beyond AB/HR/RBI/AVG and I would be ecstatic.

I'm pretty sure they can code that in a year. I'm pissed I paid $60 for one feature: the ability to edit potential. While that's a great feature that has been sorely lacking, it's not enough.

I will not buy another version of this game until they incorporate in-depth year-to-year stat tracking. The fact that they misrepresented positive changes in this regard pisses me off even more.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: My views on the importance of detailed stat tracking

I have bought every version of The Show for many years, because it has always been the best looking with the best gameplay. I was willing to overlook the lacking stats and customization abilities, but it's been long enough that there is just no excuse anymore.

I am beyond frustrated at SCEA this year with the MLB 14 release. They flat out lied about player cards containing more stats in Franchise mode. Apparently, they added a few extra stats to online franchise only. It's unbelievable to me that a baseball game has such terrible stat tracking. It's the most stat-obsessive sport in the world. They could literally change NOTHING about next years game except for adding in career major league and minor league stats that go beyond AB/HR/RBI/AVG and I would be ecstatic.

I'm pretty sure they can code that in a year. I'm pissed I paid $60 for one feature: the ability to edit potential. While that's a great feature that has been sorely lacking, it's not enough.

I will not buy another version of this game until they incorporate in-depth year-to-year stat tracking. The fact that they misrepresented positive changes in this regard pisses me off even more.

They never lied about more stats being in offline. They stated more would be kept on player card with awards etc. In online franchise.

While I agree that I'm hoping it makes it to offline soon..saying SCEA lied or was deceptive is false. If anything Ramone and SCEA are brutally honest.



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