All-Timers Teams

[Joey]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Nice! And yes, I love playing at Fenway, too. I enjoy playing in the parks with character.

Well, if it helps, with the '86 Mets in your rosters, I routed Roger Clemens at Fenway for about 6-7 runs in the first inning and had him run out of there by the 2nd inning...I could play at Fenway for every game, I believe...no worries on the cluttering, the topic is become interesting and I sometimes feel like I'm talking to myself, anyway, lol I have no opinion on Larkin's defense one way or the other...

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Sorry, but I don't necessarily agree with the "That's how it should be" comment. Only because, obviously, not everyone is equal;

I didnt say that. I said the "average ML shortstop" is a pretty good defender. It's THE most demanding defensive position on the field, so if you are "average defensively" at SS, then you're basically one of the top 15 defenders at the most difficult position to play ... at the highest level of competition.

That' some serious poop. What that means for this discussion, and player ratings, is that a SS with a "league average" rating/metrics/etc on defense is one heckuva fielder.

Same thing for CF. A player could be a "league average" CF on defense and yet sill be a better defender than all of the LF and RF. I think a case could be made that the bottom 10% of CF have more range than the top 10% of corner OF.

That's what i am getting at. It's what occurs in the "positional adjustment" factor of player valuation.

Put the league average SS at 2B, and they are like top 3 defensively every single year.

[Joey]

Re: All-Timers Teams

I think you just took my comment about every SS being very good defensively in the game out of context. What I was getting at was that in '10, every SS had the capability of making the sliding backhand, popping up and throwing out a runner AND/OR going deep in the hole (like "grass" deep) and jump-throwing to first. Obviously not every SS can do those things and that's what separates the REALLY good one's from the good one's. In '11 the "tiered animations" system should mean that not every single SS will be capable of those 2 plays, so the really good guys should actually stand out.

I didnt say that. I said the "average ML shortstop" is a pretty good defender. It's THE most demanding defensive position on the field, so if you are "average defensively" at SS, then you're basically one of the top 15 defenders at the most difficult position to play ... at the highest level of competition.

That' some serious poop. What that means for this discussion, and player ratings, is that a SS with a "league average" rating/metrics/etc on defense is one heckuva fielder.

Same thing for CF. A player could be a "league average" CF on defense and yet sill be a better defender than all of the LF and RF. I think a case could be made that the bottom 10% of CF have more range than the top 10% of corner OF.

That's what i am getting at. It's what occurs in the "positional adjustment" factor of player valuation.

Put the league average SS at 2B, and they are like top 3 defensively every single year.

[jpup]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Larkin will be in the Hall of Fame next year. It sure wasn't a career solely built on his bat. He was a great hitter too.

Again, if you never seen the guy player and can't remember, I can't have this conversation. Defensive metrics are about worthless.

[MysterioMan007]

Re: All-Timers Teams

I will agree that the only reason Larkin only won 3 GG is because he was playing at the same time Ozzie Smith was...

[MysterioMan007]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Grrr. I understand why the creators like to stick themselves into the game as fake players, but why make them uneditable?

[TripleThreat11]

Re: All-Timers Teams

[1] You're right about SS's in MLB10.

[2] I watched Larkin play. I'm an NL Central guy. I would consider him to be "average to above average", (3.5 outta 5) which for ML Shortstops is pretty damn good. I'm just not going all the way to "best defender of his time".

[3] If defensive metrics do not matter, then what does? Highlight reels? Great memories? Perceptions? I stated openly that I am not an entire believer of UZR, but when a variety of defensive metrics agree (including managers and coaches), that has to count for something.

The best NL defensive shortstops post-Wizard are Rey Ordonez (NYM) and Jack Wilson (PIT). As one that watched Larkin (presumably a Reds fan), you should know about Jack Wilson.

[jpup]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Hit another walkoff homer with George Foster. Back to back games Foster has gone yard. Joe Morgan brought it within one run with a two run homer. Johnny Bench singles and then Foster takes the Cubs deep again.

[Joey]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Jpup, you playing a season with these?

Hit another walkoff homer with George Foster. Back to back games Foster has gone yard. Joe Morgan brought it within one run with a two run homer. Johnny Bench singles and then Foster takes the Cubs deep again.

[jpup]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Jpup, you playing a season with these?

yes i am. love it.

[emath]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Anyway, the Padres are finished and what a crap franchise...finding guys for this team was brutal, but that's just one man's opinion.

San Diego Padres

SP Andy Ashby
SP Andy Benes
SP Jake Peavy
.......

Man, I have not checked this since before Christmas sometime. I had no idea you have been back at it. You really started pumping them out again.

As I think I have mentioned before (and another guy just did a page or two back), I have done a ton of all time roster work for MVP, and for High Heat. The motivation/excitement factor is huge in getting stuff done. Then the family/friends stuff always comes into play as well. The fact you are getting this thing done, at such a high quality, and within the games one year life span is pretty amazing.


Now on to the part I chose to quote.... The Padres. Yup, in my roster sets from previous games, I have come to the conclusion that (besides the Rays) the Padres and the Royals are the worst teams all time. Their all time talents just can't compare to the rest of baseball.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: All-Timers Teams

I have done a ton of all time roster work for MVP, and for High Heat.

I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. I'm CircleChange11 from the mvpmods forums.

Now on to the part I chose to quote.... The Padres. Yup, in my roster sets from previous games, I have come to the conclusion that (besides the Rays) the Padres and the Royals are the worst teams all time. Their all time talents just can't compare to the rest of baseball.

Yep. The Royals whole team could basically be from their last 70s to mid 80s teams ... same with the Pads actually.

The Mets aren't far behind, but Seaver and Gooden kind of save them in that regard.

This roster set is a blast. I'm thinking of doing a franchise presentation with them.

[MysterioMan007]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Man, I have not checked this since before Christmas sometime. I had no idea you have been back at it. You really started pumping them out again.

As I think I have mentioned before (and another guy just did a page or two back), I have done a ton of all time roster work for MVP, and for High Heat. The motivation/excitement factor is huge in getting stuff done. Then the family/friends stuff always comes into play as well. The fact you are getting this thing done, at such a high quality, and within the games one year life span is pretty amazing.


Now on to the part I chose to quote.... The Padres. Yup, in my roster sets from previous games, I have come to the conclusion that (besides the Rays) the Padres and the Royals are the worst teams all time. Their all time talents just can't compare to the rest of baseball.

I actually kind of enjoyed the Royals (George Brett and Bo Jackson alone gave me great memories), but the Padres...ugh...at least the Rays and D-Backs have the excuse of only being around for 12 years. The Padres as a team have only given me two times when I found them interesting...in their big, huge brawl with the Braves back in '84...and in the game where the Dodgers (Jeff Kent, JD Drew, Russell Martin, and Marlon Anderson) hit the 4 HR's in a row and then won it in extra innings with a Nomar walkoff...neither of which showed them in a favorable light.

Yep. The Royals whole team could basically be from their last 70s to mid 80s teams ... same with the Pads actually.

The Mets aren't far behind, but Seaver and Gooden kind of save them in that regard.

This roster set is a blast. I'm thinking of doing a franchise presentation with them.

Thanks. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I am just now starting to play a season in spring training and am loving it so far myself. The CAP system has come a long way since MVP '05, when is the last tiem I attempted something like this...but never finished due to the limitations of the PS2.

Although I have to say the Nationals, outside of Dawson, Carter, and Raines, are also a pretty bad franchise.

In fact, in simming through a few seasons, the Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, Yankees, A's, and Giants seem to always make the postseason and the Giants win it more than the others...

[emath]

Re: All-Timers Teams

I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. I'm CircleChange11 from the mvpmods forums.



Yep. The Royals whole team could basically be from their last 70s to mid 80s teams ... same with the Pads actually.

The Mets aren't far behind, but Seaver and Gooden kind of save them in that regard.

This roster set is a blast. I'm thinking of doing a franchise presentation with them.

Hey CC

Mets don't have as much talent as one would think, but they do have some mixed in there. When you start to add in a few current guys (left side of the infield), they get a little better. Not a lot of pop in the outfield though. Some decent players, but not the level that you get on a lot of other teams. Decent rotation though.

[emath]

Re: All-Timers Teams

Although I have to say the Nationals, outside of Dawson, Carter, and Raines, are also a pretty bad franchise.

In fact, in simming through a few seasons, the Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, Yankees, A's, and Giants seem to always make the postseason and the Giants win it more than the others...

Depends on how you break the players down. I know you don't do doubles, so I wont even go there, but the Expos/Nats have so many talented players in their past.. Just have to decide between their young and really good days with the Expos, or their superstar days with other franchises.

The 90's expansion teams make it tough too. I still think of Randy Johnson more as a Mariner (and Arod, and Griffey), but most people put him on the Dbacks.

It's why I do doubles, to be honest. If a player was considered an all time great with a franchise, he should be on their team (at least on any rosters I make). Nolan Ryan is the best example of this... I bet money that if you poll Angels fans, Astros fans, and Rangers fans, each one would rate Nolan Ryan as one of their top 5 starters of all time. I agree... I know it's all opinion, and I no longer try to convince people to take my side... My uncle is a no doubles kinda guy, and thinks I am crazy for having them... I think he is crazy for not having them...

Oh well.

Great work. Gonna try and grab them tonight sometime. I want to keep '10 as my All time version of the game, and then get '11 for the updated rosters, and new features, to play the current era...