Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

[seanjeezy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I agree with a lot of what has been said and see the point about Tillman/Lambordozzi/etc. I just wanted to throw another wrench into this--positional adjustments for the potential in the game. Almora is CF, right? If so, power is not really considered (I assume) until after defense, contact, and speed. Put him in RF then it probably goes power, contact, arm strength or something along those lines for example. So, does Almora's defense in CF, contact hitting, and speed warrant an A or a B or a B9?

In center he's a B+, at a corner he's a straight B. However, that was in '12, it might be different in '13...

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

So in terms of potentials, ratings, etc. Who has the final say when deciding what goes into OSFM?

[zack4070]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Will Hayden Simpson get even a AA roster spot? LOL.

I remember when he got drafted by the Cubs the analysts were like WTF? This guy shouldnt of gotten drafted until the 4th or 5th round!

[authentic]

Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Will Hayden Simpson get even a AA roster spot? LOL.

I remember when he got drafted by the Cubs the analysts were like WTF? This guy shouldnt of gotten drafted until the 4th or 5th round!

Simpson has never really got into any grove in the system. He's been getting rocked around pretty good. If he doesn't look better in Spring, he may be looking for a place to play. There's not enough upside to keep him.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

What's up guys!? Okay, so my 2013 BA Prospect Handbook was delivered today so I thought I'd post some information about the Cubs system.

Since I'm going to post the grade given for each prospect by BA, I thought I'd start by giving their descriptions for the scale they use.

BA Grade Scale

75-80: Franchise players and No.1 starters, such as Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Clayton Kershaw and Justin Verlander.

65-70: No.2 starters and perennial all-stars in the mold of Matt Cain, Matt Kemp and Adrian Beltre.

55-60: First-division regulars and No.3 starters and elite closers, such as Craig Kimbrel, James Shields and Austin Jackson would earn these grades.

45-50: Most players reside here. The 50s are second-division regulars with higher peaks, hard throwing eight-inning relievers and fourth starters on playoff teams such as Joe Saunders, Cody Ross and Danny Espinosa. The 45s are platoon/utility players, back-end starters and middle relievers. Think of veterans such as Brandon Inge and Jake Westbrook.

35-40: Players with swingman or utility/backup catcher upside, or same-side relief specialists. This category includes the likes of Pete Orr, Cole De Vries and Clay Rapada.

Risk Factors

Safe: Has shown realistic ceiling in big leagues; ready to contribute in 2013.

Low: Likely to reach realistic ceiling, certain big league career barring injury.

Medium: Still some work to do to turn tools into major league-caliber skills.

High: Most draft picks in their first seasons, players with plenty of projection left.

Extreme: Teenagers in Rookie ball or players with significant injury histories.

With that laid out, I'll delve into BA's rankings for the Cubs top 30 prospects going into the 2013 season.

1. Javier Baez, SS - HIGH 65

"As an offensive-minded shortstop, he could be better than Starlin Castro. Baez has better defensive tools, more power and similar hitting ability. The Cubs probably won't displace Castro, but they'll keep Baez at shortstop until he shows he can't play there. He should see Double-A Tennessee at some point in 2013, perhaps even on Opening Day. Once he moderates his approach at the plate, he could get to Wrigley Field in a hurry."

They also offered individual grades for Baez on several of the integral tools using the 20-80 scale.

Batting: 60 - Power: 65 - Speed: 50 - Defense: 55 - Arm: 65

2. Albert Almora, OF - MEDIUM 60

"He has natural hitting rhythm and pitch-rocognition skills beyond his years."

"He's not the most physical player, but he has the hitting accumen and projection to grow into an annual 20-homer power."

"He has incredible instincts, allowing his average speed to play up a grade on the bases and well above that in center field. He gets outstanding jumps and takes precise routes."

3. Jorge Soler, OF - HIGH 65

"The ball explodes off Soler's bat, and his well above-average power can make any ballpark look small."

"He has feel for hitting too, as he uses a game plan, recognizes pitches well and can make two-strike adjustments. Some scouts worry about an arm bar and some stiffness in his swing. Soler has solid speed once he gets going and good instincts on the bases. Once he improves his routes to balls, he'll be an asset in right field. He has well above-average arm strength and makes accurate throws."

4. Arodys Vizcaino, RHP - HIGH 60

"Before he got hurt, Vizcaino was one of baseball's top pitching prospects. He had a 93-95 mph fastball that topped out at 97, and it might be his second-best pitch. The only negative about his sharp curveball was that he threw it too much."

"Chicago sees a potential No.2 starter while detractors point to his injury track record, which indicates he won't hold up in a rotation even if his mechanics are fine. At worst, the Cubs think they have a closer."

5. Brett Jackson, OF - HIGH 55 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

6. Pierce Johnson, RHP - HIGH 50

"Johnson consistently works at 92-94 mph and reaches 96 with his lively fastball. His hammer curveball gives him two pitches that can get swings and misses. He also has a mid-80's cutter and a changeup that's coming along nicely. Johnson is more about power than finesse, and his control and command are no better than average at this point. He doesn't have a clean medical history, as he had forearm issues as a high school senior and college freshman and dislocated a kneecap while warming up in the summer Cape Cod League in 2011."

"Among Chicago prospects with a legitimate chance to pitch in the front half of a big league rotation."

7. Dan Vogelbach, 1B - HIGH 50

"He has more usable power than Baez or Jorge Soler, which is saying a lot."

"He earns high marks for his advanced approach and feel for hitting. He controls the strike zone, takes his walks and uses the entire field with an effortless swing. He can get pull-conscious at times but generally hits from gap to gap. He will need to keep producing at the plate because he can't do anything else."

"He's a liability on the basepaths and adequate at best as a first baseman. A lot of teams see him purely as a DH..."

8. Jeimer Candelario, 3B - HIGH 50

"Though he's just 19, Candelario already shows a fluid swing and feel for hitting from both sides of the plate. He's advanced for his age in terms of plate discipline, pitch recognition and willingess to use the entire field. He didn't drive the ball a lot last summer, but he has the bat speed and projectable frame to develop 20-homer power."

"He has below-average speed and fringy range, and his concentration wanders at times."

9. Kyuji Fujikawa, RHP - LOW 45

"Fujikawa throws harder than most Japanese pitchers, regularly operating with a 91-94 mph fastball. His out pitch is a mid-80's splitter, and he also uses an upper-70's slurve. He commands and controls his pitches well..."

10. Arismendy Alcantara, SS - HIGH 50

"Alcantara is a live-bodied switch-hitter who can hit for average and provide solid power for a middle infielder from both sides of the plate."

"He has plus speed and knows how to use it, stealing 25 bases in 29 tries in 2012. Alcantara has the quickness, range and arm strength to make all the plays at shortsop. But he loses focus at times and makes too many off-target throws..."

11. Juan Carlos Paniagua, RHP - EXTREME 55

"Club officials saw his fastball sit at 94-98 mph and touch 100 in multiple-inning stints. His second-best pitch is his changeup, with his 82-84 mph slider more notable for its velocity than its break."

12. Christian Villanueva, 3B - HIGH 50

"He has the potential for average power, but he'll have to get stronger and turn on more pitches to get there. He can hit for solid average and provide some doubles. He has fringy speed but has the instincts to steal bases if the defense doesn't pay attention to him. Defense is where Villanueva really shines. He has the first-step quickness, hands, arm strength and savvy to make tough plays look routine."

13. Alberto Cabrera, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"His fastball ranges from 93-98 mph, his changeup features some sink and fade, and his power slider added some bite when he worked with big league pitching coach Chris Bosio. However, Cabrera's pitches tend to play down because he lacks control and command."

"Cabrera will compete for a big league bullpen job in spring training and has a ceiling as a set-up man."

14. Matt Szczur, OF - HIGH 50

"Szczur is the best athlete and fastest player in the system, but he has yet to maximize his physical gifts on the diamond. he's strong enough to hit for average power, but he cuts off his swing and rolls over on a lot of fastballs. he has become a more selective hitter and focuses on getting on base to take advantage of his plus-plus speed."

"He has made himself into a solid center fielder with an average, accurate arm. Some scouts think he still can blossom into a quality everyday player; others see him as a second-division regular."

15. Junior Lake, SS/3B - HIGH 55

"He has a big league body, one of the strongest infield arms in the minor leagues, raw power and solid speed. He never has developed patience at the plate and gets himself out by chasing breaking pitches."

"Scouts on other clubs see him as a third baseman or right fielder, and some would like to see him try pitching."

16. Paul Blackburn, RHP - HIGH 50

"Blackburn works down in the strike zone and to both sides of the plate with a 90-92 mph fastball that peaks at 94."

"Chicago believes he'll eventually have a plus curveball, and his changeup has similar promise. He gets high marks for his mound presence.

"Blackburn has the ingredients necessary to become a No.3 starter..."

17. Duane Underwood, RHP - HIGH 50

"Underwood generally pitches at 91-94 mph with his fastball but it varies from 88-98 and he doesn't always know where it's going. His curveball is similarly inconsistent."

"He controls his changeup better than his other pitches, but he throws it too hard and doesn't get enough separation from his fastball."

18. Dillon Maples, RHP - HIGH 50

"Maples' main weapons are a heavy 91-96 mph fastball and a hard curveball. His non-athletic delivery and short arm action turn off a lot of scouts and could lead to health and control problems."

"Maples will turn 21 early in the 2013 season, so the Cubs would like to get him to low Class A and, they hope, on the road to becoming a No.2 starter."

19. Logan Watkins, 2B/SS/OF - MEDIUM 45

"He draws walks and he's stronger than he looks, though his power goes mostly to the gaps."

"His biggest needs offensively are to cut down a few more strikeouts and to attempt more steals. Watkins has spent most of his pro career at second base, where his average arm and solid range fit best."

"Watkins' biggest backers project him as an everyday second baseman, and he may have a better collection of tools than Cubs incumbent Darwin Barney. Scouts outside the organization see him more as a utilityman."

20. Marco Hernandez, SS - HIGH 50

"Hernandez has no glaring weaknesses and a better chance to stay at shortstop in the long term. A switch-hitter, he has an easy swing from both sides of the plate and more pop as a lefty."

"...he makes reliable contact and should have solid gap power once he gets stronger."

"Hernandez has above-average speed but still is learning to make the most of it on the bases. He has the actions, quickness and solid arm required at shortstop, but he let the game speed up too much on him defensively in 2012, committing 32 errors in 105 games."

21. Gioskar Amaya, 2B - HIGH 50

"He's growing into some sneaky power and has plus speed..."

"His range and arm strength weren't quite good enough at shortstop but are solid at second."

22. Tony Zych, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"And he can throw plenty hard, working at 94-96 mph and reaching 99."

"His delivery makes it difficult to maintain consistent break on his slider, which arrives in the mid-80's but can flatten out. His arm action and lack of a consistent second pitch leave most scouts hesitant to give him the closer stamp of approval, but he profiles as a seventh- or eighth-inning reliever in the big leagues."

23. Robert Whitenack, RHP - HIGH 50

"Whitenack's fastball had jumped from the high-80's to 89-96 mph while keeping its hard sink. He scrapped a knuckle-curve for a more effective slider in the low-80's and had some success with his changeup. Whitenack's stuff didn't come all the way back in 2012, as his fastball resided around 90 mph and his slider lacked bite."

"If he can recover his 2011 form, he could develop into a No.3 starter."

24. Trey McNutt, RHP - HIGH 50

"The Cubs gave up on trying to make him a starter midway through 2012. Working in shorter stints gave a boost to McNutt's fastball, which now sits at 94-95 mph. He always has thrown both a curveball and a slider, each of which could be devastating at its best, but he focused more on the slider when he had recurring blisters on the index finger of his pitching hand, which contribute to his subpar control and command. He has the mental toughness to work the late innings, but he'll be better suited for the sixth or seventh until he can throw more strikes."

25. Josh Vitters, 3B - MEDIUM 45 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

26. Barrett Loux, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"He works downhill and commands his 90-92 mph fastball to both sides of the plate, though neither his velocity nor his secondary pitches separate him from the pack. His average slider and curveball blend together, but most scouts like his changeup best, and he knows how and when to use it."

"...so his future is in the rotation, where he profiles as an innings-eating back-of-the-rotation starter."

27. Matt Loosen, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"...as he works his fastball from 89-95 mph and has a sharper curveball. His curve grades as a plus pitch at times, though he sometimes loses his feel for it. When that happens, he'll turn to his decent slider. Loosen's changeup has gotten better but still lacks consistency."

"Loosen has a No.4 starter's ceiling."

28. Lendy Castillo, RHP - MEDIUM 45 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

29. Marcus Hatley, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"Hatley uses his size and good delievery to fire 93-96 mph fastballs on a steep downhill plane. His mid-80's slider and upper-80's splitter flash plus ability, though his slider lacks consistent break. Hatley's control and command are scattershot and he lacks deception, so he gets knocked around more than someone with his stuf should."

"Hatley has both a high ceiling and a low floor..."

30. Trey Martin, OF - HIGH 50

"He still can improve his jumps and reads, but he's also good enough to play center in Wrigley Field right now. He even adds a solid arm to his defensive package. Martin has interesting offensive potential as well with a projectable frame, good hand-eye coordination and long arms to create leverage giving him some power potential down the line."

"He has well above-average speed but is still learning how to parlay it into stolen bases."

Organization Overview

Best Tools
Best Hitter for Average: Albert Almora
Best Power Hitter: Dan Vogelbach
Best Strike-Zone Discipline: Logan Watkins
Fastest Baserunner: Matt Szczur
Best Athlete: Matt Szczur
Best Fastball: Arodys Vizcaino
Best Curveball: Arodys Vizcaino
Best Slider: Alberto Cabrera
Best Changeup: Brooks Raley
Best Control: Kyle Hendricks
Best Defensive Catcher: Chadd Krist
Best Defensive Infielder: Javier Baez
Best Infield Arm: Junior Lake
Best Defensive Outfielder: Albert Almora
Best Outfield Arm: Jorge Soler

Sorry that this post was SO LONG! I just figured this information would be helpful for the roster makers.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

So has any of the work for the Cubs been doled out yet?

I suck at doing faces, but I am happy to help with any of the other work that needs to be done.

[authentic]

So has any of the work for the Cubs been doled out yet?

I suck at doing faces, but I am happy to help with any of the other work that needs to be done.

I can do some faces. I won't have a ton of time, that's the only reason I'm not doing the Cubs organization this year.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I can do some faces. I won't have a ton of time, that's the only reason I'm not doing the Cubs organization this year.

I was wondering if you were going to be doing it this year since you did them last year. Thanks for doing the Cubs in the past, the organization I personally care the most about. I have a lot of free time coming up when the game releases and I wanted to give some of that to OSFM since I use it every year, but never helped at all. Want to give some help this year.

But I am horrible at making faces in the game, my RTTS players are basically the generic face with facial hair.

[js3512]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

What's up guys!? Okay, so my 2013 BA Prospect Handbook was delivered today so I thought I'd post some information about the Cubs system.

Since I'm going to post the grade given for each prospect by BA, I thought I'd start by giving their descriptions for the scale they use.

BA Grade Scale

75-80: Franchise players and No.1 starters, such as Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Clayton Kershaw and Justin Verlander.

65-70: No.2 starters and perennial all-stars in the mold of Matt Cain, Matt Kemp and Adrian Beltre.

55-60: First-division regulars and No.3 starters and elite closers, such as Craig Kimbrel, James Shields and Austin Jackson would earn these grades.

45-50: Most players reside here. The 50s are second-division regulars with higher peaks, hard throwing eight-inning relievers and fourth starters on playoff teams such as Joe Saunders, Cody Ross and Danny Espinosa. The 45s are platoon/utility players, back-end starters and middle relievers. Think of veterans such as Brandon Inge and Jake Westbrook.

35-40: Players with swingman or utility/backup catcher upside, or same-side relief specialists. This category includes the likes of Pete Orr, Cole De Vries and Clay Rapada.

Risk Factors

Safe: Has shown realistic ceiling in big leagues; ready to contribute in 2013.

Low: Likely to reach realistic ceiling, certain big league career barring injury.

Medium: Still some work to do to turn tools into major league-caliber skills.

High: Most draft picks in their first seasons, players with plenty of projection left.

Extreme: Teenagers in Rookie ball or players with significant injury histories.

With that laid out, I'll delve into BA's rankings for the Cubs top 30 prospects going into the 2013 season.

1. Javier Baez, SS - HIGH 65

"As an offensive-minded shortstop, he could be better than Starlin Castro. Baez has better defensive tools, more power and similar hitting ability. The Cubs probably won't displace Castro, but they'll keep Baez at shortstop until he shows he can't play there. He should see Double-A Tennessee at some point in 2013, perhaps even on Opening Day. Once he moderates his approach at the plate, he could get to Wrigley Field in a hurry."

They also offered individual grades for Baez on several of the integral tools using the 20-80 scale.

Batting: 60 - Power: 65 - Speed: 50 - Defense: 55 - Arm: 65

2. Albert Almora, OF - MEDIUM 60

"He has natural hitting rhythm and pitch-rocognition skills beyond his years."

"He's not the most physical player, but he has the hitting accumen and projection to grow into an annual 20-homer power."

"He has incredible instincts, allowing his average speed to play up a grade on the bases and well above that in center field. He gets outstanding jumps and takes precise routes."

3. Jorge Soler, OF - HIGH 65

"The ball explodes off Soler's bat, and his well above-average power can make any ballpark look small."

"He has feel for hitting too, as he uses a game plan, recognizes pitches well and can make two-strike adjustments. Some scouts worry about an arm bar and some stiffness in his swing. Soler has solid speed once he gets going and good instincts on the bases. Once he improves his routes to balls, he'll be an asset in right field. He has well above-average arm strength and makes accurate throws."

4. Arodys Vizcaino, RHP - HIGH 60

"Before he got hurt, Vizcaino was one of baseball's top pitching prospects. He had a 93-95 mph fastball that topped out at 97, and it might be his second-best pitch. The only negative about his sharp curveball was that he threw it too much."

"Chicago sees a potential No.2 starter while detractors point to his injury track record, which indicates he won't hold up in a rotation even if his mechanics are fine. At worst, the Cubs think they have a closer."

5. Brett Jackson, OF - HIGH 55 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

6. Pierce Johnson, RHP - HIGH 50

"Johnson consistently works at 92-94 mph and reaches 96 with his lively fastball. His hammer curveball gives him two pitches that can get swings and misses. He also has a mid-80's cutter and a changeup that's coming along nicely. Johnson is more about power than finesse, and his control and command are no better than average at this point. He doesn't have a clean medical history, as he had forearm issues as a high school senior and college freshman and dislocated a kneecap while warming up in the summer Cape Cod League in 2011."

"Among Chicago prospects with a legitimate chance to pitch in the front half of a big league rotation."

7. Dan Vogelbach, 1B - HIGH 50

"He has more usable power than Baez or Jorge Soler, which is saying a lot."

"He earns high marks for his advanced approach and feel for hitting. He controls the strike zone, takes his walks and uses the entire field with an effortless swing. He can get pull-conscious at times but generally hits from gap to gap. He will need to keep producing at the plate because he can't do anything else."

"He's a liability on the basepaths and adequate at best as a first baseman. A lot of teams see him purely as a DH..."

8. Jeimer Candelario, 3B - HIGH 50

"Though he's just 19, Candelario already shows a fluid swing and feel for hitting from both sides of the plate. He's advanced for his age in terms of plate discipline, pitch recognition and willingess to use the entire field. He didn't drive the ball a lot last summer, but he has the bat speed and projectable frame to develop 20-homer power."

"He has below-average speed and fringy range, and his concentration wanders at times."

9. Kyuji Fujikawa, RHP - LOW 45

"Fujikawa throws harder than most Japanese pitchers, regularly operating with a 91-94 mph fastball. His out pitch is a mid-80's splitter, and he also uses an upper-70's slurve. He commands and controls his pitches well..."

10. Arismendy Alcantara, SS - HIGH 50

"Alcantara is a live-bodied switch-hitter who can hit for average and provide solid power for a middle infielder from both sides of the plate."

"He has plus speed and knows how to use it, stealing 25 bases in 29 tries in 2012. Alcantara has the quickness, range and arm strength to make all the plays at shortsop. But he loses focus at times and makes too many off-target throws..."

11. Juan Carlos Paniagua, RHP - EXTREME 55

"Club officials saw his fastball sit at 94-98 mph and touch 100 in multiple-inning stints. His second-best pitch is his changeup, with his 82-84 mph slider more notable for its velocity than its break."

12. Christian Villanueva, 3B - HIGH 50

"He has the potential for average power, but he'll have to get stronger and turn on more pitches to get there. He can hit for solid average and provide some doubles. He has fringy speed but has the instincts to steal bases if the defense doesn't pay attention to him. Defense is where Villanueva really shines. He has the first-step quickness, hands, arm strength and savvy to make tough plays look routine."

13. Alberto Cabrera, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"His fastball ranges from 93-98 mph, his changeup features some sink and fade, and his power slider added some bite when he worked with big league pitching coach Chris Bosio. However, Cabrera's pitches tend to play down because he lacks control and command."

"Cabrera will compete for a big league bullpen job in spring training and has a ceiling as a set-up man."

14. Matt Szczur, OF - HIGH 50

"Szczur is the best athlete and fastest player in the system, but he has yet to maximize his physical gifts on the diamond. he's strong enough to hit for average power, but he cuts off his swing and rolls over on a lot of fastballs. he has become a more selective hitter and focuses on getting on base to take advantage of his plus-plus speed."

"He has made himself into a solid center fielder with an average, accurate arm. Some scouts think he still can blossom into a quality everyday player; others see him as a second-division regular."

15. Junior Lake, SS/3B - HIGH 55

"He has a big league body, one of the strongest infield arms in the minor leagues, raw power and solid speed. He never has developed patience at the plate and gets himself out by chasing breaking pitches."

"Scouts on other clubs see him as a third baseman or right fielder, and some would like to see him try pitching."

16. Paul Blackburn, RHP - HIGH 50

"Blackburn works down in the strike zone and to both sides of the plate with a 90-92 mph fastball that peaks at 94."

"Chicago believes he'll eventually have a plus curveball, and his changeup has similar promise. He gets high marks for his mound presence.

"Blackburn has the ingredients necessary to become a No.3 starter..."

17. Duane Underwood, RHP - HIGH 50

"Underwood generally pitches at 91-94 mph with his fastball but it varies from 88-98 and he doesn't always know where it's going. His curveball is similarly inconsistent."

"He controls his changeup better than his other pitches, but he throws it too hard and doesn't get enough separation from his fastball."

18. Dillon Maples, RHP - HIGH 50

"Maples' main weapons are a heavy 91-96 mph fastball and a hard curveball. His non-athletic delivery and short arm action turn off a lot of scouts and could lead to health and control problems."

"Maples will turn 21 early in the 2013 season, so the Cubs would like to get him to low Class A and, they hope, on the road to becoming a No.2 starter."

19. Logan Watkins, 2B/SS/OF - MEDIUM 45

"He draws walks and he's stronger than he looks, though his power goes mostly to the gaps."

"His biggest needs offensively are to cut down a few more strikeouts and to attempt more steals. Watkins has spent most of his pro career at second base, where his average arm and solid range fit best."

"Watkins' biggest backers project him as an everyday second baseman, and he may have a better collection of tools than Cubs incumbent Darwin Barney. Scouts outside the organization see him more as a utilityman."

20. Marco Hernandez, SS - HIGH 50

"Hernandez has no glaring weaknesses and a better chance to stay at shortstop in the long term. A switch-hitter, he has an easy swing from both sides of the plate and more pop as a lefty."

"...he makes reliable contact and should have solid gap power once he gets stronger."

"Hernandez has above-average speed but still is learning to make the most of it on the bases. He has the actions, quickness and solid arm required at shortstop, but he let the game speed up too much on him defensively in 2012, committing 32 errors in 105 games."

21. Gioskar Amaya, 2B - HIGH 50

"He's growing into some sneaky power and has plus speed..."

"His range and arm strength weren't quite good enough at shortstop but are solid at second."

22. Tony Zych, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"And he can throw plenty hard, working at 94-96 mph and reaching 99."

"His delivery makes it difficult to maintain consistent break on his slider, which arrives in the mid-80's but can flatten out. His arm action and lack of a consistent second pitch leave most scouts hesitant to give him the closer stamp of approval, but he profiles as a seventh- or eighth-inning reliever in the big leagues."

23. Robert Whitenack, RHP - HIGH 50

"Whitenack's fastball had jumped from the high-80's to 89-96 mph while keeping its hard sink. He scrapped a knuckle-curve for a more effective slider in the low-80's and had some success with his changeup. Whitenack's stuff didn't come all the way back in 2012, as his fastball resided around 90 mph and his slider lacked bite."

"If he can recover his 2011 form, he could develop into a No.3 starter."

24. Trey McNutt, RHP - HIGH 50

"The Cubs gave up on trying to make him a starter midway through 2012. Working in shorter stints gave a boost to McNutt's fastball, which now sits at 94-95 mph. He always has thrown both a curveball and a slider, each of which could be devastating at its best, but he focused more on the slider when he had recurring blisters on the index finger of his pitching hand, which contribute to his subpar control and command. He has the mental toughness to work the late innings, but he'll be better suited for the sixth or seventh until he can throw more strikes."

25. Josh Vitters, 3B - MEDIUM 45 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

26. Barrett Loux, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"He works downhill and commands his 90-92 mph fastball to both sides of the plate, though neither his velocity nor his secondary pitches separate him from the pack. His average slider and curveball blend together, but most scouts like his changeup best, and he knows how and when to use it."

"...so his future is in the rotation, where he profiles as an innings-eating back-of-the-rotation starter."

27. Matt Loosen, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"...as he works his fastball from 89-95 mph and has a sharper curveball. His curve grades as a plus pitch at times, though he sometimes loses his feel for it. When that happens, he'll turn to his decent slider. Loosen's changeup has gotten better but still lacks consistency."

"Loosen has a No.4 starter's ceiling."

28. Lendy Castillo, RHP - MEDIUM 45 (since he'll be in the game I'll spare the thoughts)

29. Marcus Hatley, RHP - MEDIUM 45

"Hatley uses his size and good delievery to fire 93-96 mph fastballs on a steep downhill plane. His mid-80's slider and upper-80's splitter flash plus ability, though his slider lacks consistent break. Hatley's control and command are scattershot and he lacks deception, so he gets knocked around more than someone with his stuf should."

"Hatley has both a high ceiling and a low floor..."

30. Trey Martin, OF - HIGH 50

"He still can improve his jumps and reads, but he's also good enough to play center in Wrigley Field right now. He even adds a solid arm to his defensive package. Martin has interesting offensive potential as well with a projectable frame, good hand-eye coordination and long arms to create leverage giving him some power potential down the line."

"He has well above-average speed but is still learning how to parlay it into stolen bases."

Organization Overview

Best Tools
Best Hitter for Average: Albert Almora
Best Power Hitter: Dan Vogelbach
Best Strike-Zone Discipline: Logan Watkins
Fastest Baserunner: Matt Szczur
Best Athlete: Matt Szczur
Best Fastball: Arodys Vizcaino
Best Curveball: Arodys Vizcaino
Best Slider: Alberto Cabrera
Best Changeup: Brooks Raley
Best Control: Kyle Hendricks
Best Defensive Catcher: Chadd Krist
Best Defensive Infielder: Javier Baez
Best Infield Arm: Junior Lake
Best Defensive Outfielder: Albert Almora
Best Outfield Arm: Jorge Soler

Sorry that this post was SO LONG! I just figured this information would be helpful for the roster makers.

Based on this I'd give the following grades:
1) Baez - A-
2) Almora - B
3) Soler - A-
4) Vizcaino - B+
5) Jackson - B
6) Johnson - B-
7) Vogelbach - B-
8) Candelario - B-
9) Fujikawa - C-
10) Alcantara - B
11) Paniagua - B+
12) Villanueva - B-
13) Cabrera - C
14) Szczur - B-
15) Lake - B
16) Blackburn - B-
17) Underwood - B-
18) Maples - B-
19) Watkins - C
20) Hernandez - B-
21) Amaya - B-
22) Zych - C
23) Whiteknack - B-
24) McNutt - B-
25) Vitters - C
26) Loux - C
27) Loosen - C
28) Castillo - C
29) Hatley - C
30) Martin - B-

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Based on this I'd give the following grades:
1) Baez - A-
2) Almora - B
3) Soler - A-
4) Vizcaino - B+
7) Vogelbach - B-
8) Candelario - B-
17) Underwood - B-

I like the rest of them but I'd go up a bit on these. The top four are all among baseball's top fifty prospects. Vogelbach is a tough call. Scouts are saying he has more power than probably anybody in the minors but his hit tool is also above average. He is closer to Prince Fielder than Rob Deer. The problem is that he can do NOTHING else. He is the very definition of a DH. How that affects the way we deal with his potential I don't know.

Edit: If we have too high of scores overall, some of the other guys can come down.

[js3512]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I like the rest of them but I'd go up a bit on these. The top four are all among baseball's top fifty prospects. Vogelbach is a tough call. Scouts are saying he has more power than probably anybody in the minors but his hit tool is also above average. He is closer to Prince Fielder than Rob Deer. The problem is that he can do NOTHING else. He is the very definition of a DH. How that affects the way we deal with his potential I don't know.

Edit: If we have too high of scores overall, some of the other guys can come down.

But are we overvaluing our prospects? BA described the first ratings group (75-80) as the franchise players. Neither of our top 4 got rated in that group despite being in the top 50. To me that group of potential franchise players would be the only ones deserving of an A+ or A. The reason Almora is only a B is because his ceiling isn't nearly as high as the other two but he's much closer to a sure thing. As others have said there's no standout part of his game, rather he's very good at all aspects. Vizcaino is coming off an injury so I think we have to see how he bounces back before going any higher on him. You're right about Vogelbach, he's a very hard one to call. If we could assign someone the primary position of DH (at least I don't think we can do that) I'd definitely bump him up a full letter grade, otherwise I don't know... The other ones I don't personally know much about other than that they're very young and it's hard to give them anything higher when they're just as likely to flop as they are to break out at this point.

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

But are we overvaluing our prospects? BA described the first ratings group (75-80) as the franchise players. Neither of our top 4 got rated in that group despite being in the top 50. To me that group of potential franchise players would be the only ones deserving of an A+ or A. The reason Almora is only a B is because his ceiling isn't nearly as high as the other two but he's much closer to a sure thing. As others have said there's no standout part of his game, rather he's very good at all aspects. Vizcaino is coming off an injury so I think we have to see how he bounces back before going any higher on him. You're right about Vogelbach, he's a very hard one to call. If we could assign someone the primary position of DH (at least I don't think we can do that) I'd definitely bump him up a full letter grade, otherwise I don't know... The other ones I don't personally know much about other than that they're very young and it's hard to give them anything higher when they're just as likely to flop as they are to break out at this point.

We may not have to make a call on Vizcaino. He was in the game last year but didn't play so I'm not sure if SCEA will include him or not. I would say A- which is where they put him last year. The big question is whether he can stay in the rotation or has to move to the 8th or 9th inning. I like A- for Almora but most are favoring B+ which I can deal with. Solar looks like an A to me. So impressive, just a huge guy. He is killing it in Spring BTW which may not mean much but is cool to see. Baez is a freak. A+ is his ceiling but he might bust. The game doesn't account for risk so I think we have to put our top guy where everyone else will put theirs. I too am aware of the danger of overrating our guys but the fact is that our system is suddenly stacked. I think they really are that good and the #2 pick is coming this year. It's hard to believe that as a long suffering Cubs fan.

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

BA is not the final word, they are just one opinion. Our ratings don't need to mirror BAs ratings. Plenty of other very credible prospect rankings have our players tools rated differently. We will take the proper steps to rate the players accurately, but we shouldn't just say "Oh BA has them as this, write it in pen."

[js3512]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

BA is not the final word, they are just one opinion. Our ratings don't need to mirror BAs ratings. Plenty of other very credible prospect rankings have our players tools rated differently. We will take the proper steps to rate the players accurately, but we shouldn't just say "Oh BA has them as this, write it in pen."

I'm not really saying that either. I was giving those grades based on BA's ratings. Give me another set of ratings and I'll do the same for those. Sorry if my post mislead you to believe I was saying that should be the final word.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Looking at some other threads we should consider their ratings. When in the St. Louis thread there are listing Wacha and Rosenthal at B+, both ranked above Vizcaino on BA and MLB.com we should maybe consider that. That is only two rankings, but I'd say most would rank those two ahead of Vizcaino right now. With his injury issues I'm not sure we can justify giving him anything over a B+. Real life potential and MLB 13 The Show potential are vastly different.

Since the potentials are such sure things I think we need to be a bit more hesitant to give out high grades since these ratings affect everyone.