The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

[cowboype2000]

Do you feel altering the pitch speed slider alters how hard balls are hit?

Note: All of my games have been played on HoF

In the Impressions thread, I posted my issue that pitches were just regularly hit too hard. davewins responded that lowering pitch speed could help my issue. I lowered the pitch speed slider to 5 and the game played much better; however, there were too few hard hit balls then. The CPU and I didn't hit a HR for several games and very few doubles. I upped power to 13 and too many HRs. I've since been playing with power at 12 and pitch speed at 6, and hitting seems balanced and realistic (nice amount of HRs and the amount of doubles seems promising).

Anyways, my new theory is that lowering/increasing pitch speed alters how hard the ball is hit (and plays into the physics engine). For example, say at default pitch speed (10) a 90mph fastball is calculated as 90mph by the physics engine. Then, let's say at pitch speed at 5, a 90mph fastball is calculated as 80mph by the physics engine. Let's say [X multiplied by Y multiplied by Z = how hard a pitch is hit]. If X represents pitch speed and X changes when you lower pitch speed (drops to 80mph from 90mph), then balls will uniformly be hit more softly. Therefore, a 90mph fastball will be hit harder with pitch speed at 10 than with a pitch speed of 5 with everything being constant (same pitcher, same pitch location, same hitter, same swing, etc.).

My other theory is:
Maybe with a lower pitch speed, it's actually harder to have good timing. For example, (I know this is probably way off but it's just a very simplistic example) it takes 2 full seconds for the pitch to get to the catcher with default pitch speed. Now say each possible timing window lasts 1/8 of a second thereby having a total of 16 possible swing results. Now, let's lower the pitch speed to 5 (-5). Say the pitch now takes 3 seconds to reach the catcher. With the same 1/8 second timing window blocks, you now have a total of 24 possible swing results (making it harder to swing at the one or two timing blocks that results in hard hit balls).

I'm not sure if any of these theories are true. Maybe a combination of both of these theories is the true way in which the pitch speed slider works.

Whatever the case is, I strongly feel that a great set of hitting sliders will need to address the pitch speed slider because the pitch speed in some way affects how hard the ball is hit, the probability of a ball being hit hard, or a combination of both. So, if someone makes sliders with power set at 9, the pitch speed slider needs to be properly set to complement it. Because, there is no way you'll see enough HRs with power at 9 and pitch speed at 5. However, power at 9 might work with say a pitch speed of 13.

[Kalon]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

i always felt that pitch speed should be raised when a player feels the current speed makes it too easy to hit......where you ccan easily see what's coming and whatnot. feel me?

[cowboype2000]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

i always felt that pitch speed should be raised when a player feels the current speed makes it too easy to hit......where you ccan easily see what's coming and whatnot. feel me?

I agree, that's how it should work but I was hitting the ball harder with the default pitch speed before lowering it.

[dkrause1971]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

Do you feel altering the pitch speed slider alters how hard balls are hit?

Note: All of my games have been played on HoF

In the Impressions thread, I posted my issue that pitches were just regularly hit too hard. davewins responded that lowering pitch speed could help my issue. I lowered the pitch speed slider to 5 and the game played much better; however, there were too few hard hit balls then. The CPU and I didn't hit a HR for several games and very few doubles. I upped power to 13 and too many HRs. I've since been playing with power at 12 and pitch speed at 6, and hitting seems balanced and realistic (nice amount of HRs and the amount of doubles seems promising).

Anyways, my new theory is that lowering/increasing pitch speed alters how hard the ball is hit (and plays into the physics engine). For example, say at default pitch speed (10) a 90mph fastball is calculated as 90mph by the physics engine. Then, let's say at pitch speed at 5, a 90mph fastball is calculated as 80mph by the physics engine. Let's say [X multiplied by Y multiplied by Z = how hard a pitch is hit]. If X represents pitch speed and X changes when you lower pitch speed (drops to 80mph from 90mph), then balls will uniformly be hit more softly. Therefore, a 90mph fastball will be hit harder with pitch speed at 10 than with a pitch speed of 5 with everything being constant (same pitcher, same pitch location, same hitter, same swing, etc.).

My other theory is:
Maybe with a lower pitch speed, it's actually harder to have good timing. For example, (I know this is probably way off but it's just a very simplistic example) it takes 2 full seconds for the pitch to get to the catcher with default pitch speed. Now say each possible timing window lasts 1/8 of a second thereby having a total of 16 possible swing results. Now, let's lower the pitch speed to 5 (-5). Say the pitch now takes 3 seconds to reach the catcher. With the same 1/8 second timing window blocks, you now have a total of 24 possible swing results (making it harder to swing at the one or two timing blocks that results in hard hit balls).

I'm not sure if any of these theories are true. Maybe a combination of both of these theories is the true way in which the pitch speed slider works.

Whatever the case is, I strongly feel that a great set of hitting sliders will need to address the pitch speed slider because the pitch speed in some way affects how hard the ball is hit, the probability of a ball being hit hard, or a combination of both. So, if someone makes sliders with power set at 9, the pitch speed slider needs to be properly set to complement it. Because, there is no way you'll see enough HRs with power at 9 and pitch speed at 5. However, power at 9 might work with say a pitch speed of 13.

I haven't played the retail version but theory 1 is plausable to me since in real life you'll get more distance when you hit a fast fastball then when you hit a slow curve (for example).

Theory 2 seems a reach to me since you changing the speed of the pitch but assume the hitting window is a constant but could happen. I will say i am glad people are looking into varying options. I know i am going to try the 6, 12 changes you mentioned.

[cowboype2000]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

Ok, the last few games I have played have been pretty offensive. So, for the hell of it, I maxed out the pitch speed slider, played about a couple innings, then minimized the pitch speed slider, played a couple innings, and I really didn't notice much of a speed difference. I've done this in other baseball games before and when you drastically lower pitch speed, pitches should seem like they're coming in real slow since you were just playing with a high pitch speed. Now, I'm even more puzzled at what the pitch speed slider supposedly does.

[nemesis04]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

In theory the pitch speed slider is a visual effect. A 95 mph fastball is still the same whether the slider is maxed or not. So if we are not altering the actual speed within the game, hit pitches should not be traveling farther or harder. What you should see a difference in is your timing, the ability to pull balls etc.

[brunnoce]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

imo your second theory is the one correct..
thats the way io feel when i play with lower pitch speeds...theres just more room to mistake than on high pitch speeds.

[sask3m]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

i don't have the game but did notice in the demo that there didn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the slowest pitch speed and the fastest, is it the same with the retail version?

[pberardi]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

Do you feel altering the pitch speed slider alters how hard balls are hit?

Note: All of my games have been played on HoF

In the Impressions thread, I posted my issue that pitches were just regularly hit too hard. davewins responded that lowering pitch speed could help my issue. I lowered the pitch speed slider to 5 and the game played much better; however, there were too few hard hit balls then. The CPU and I didn't hit a HR for several games and very few doubles. I upped power to 13 and too many HRs. I've since been playing with power at 12 and pitch speed at 6, and hitting seems balanced and realistic (nice amount of HRs and the amount of doubles seems promising).

Anyways, my new theory is that lowering/increasing pitch speed alters how hard the ball is hit (and plays into the physics engine). For example, say at default pitch speed (10) a 90mph fastball is calculated as 90mph by the physics engine. Then, let's say at pitch speed at 5, a 90mph fastball is calculated as 80mph by the physics engine. Let's say [X multiplied by Y multiplied by Z = how hard a pitch is hit]. If X represents pitch speed and X changes when you lower pitch speed (drops to 80mph from 90mph), then balls will uniformly be hit more softly. Therefore, a 90mph fastball will be hit harder with pitch speed at 10 than with a pitch speed of 5 with everything being constant (same pitcher, same pitch location, same hitter, same swing, etc.).

My other theory is:
Maybe with a lower pitch speed, it's actually harder to have good timing. For example, (I know this is probably way off but it's just a very simplistic example) it takes 2 full seconds for the pitch to get to the catcher with default pitch speed. Now say each possible timing window lasts 1/8 of a second thereby having a total of 16 possible swing results. Now, let's lower the pitch speed to 5 (-5). Say the pitch now takes 3 seconds to reach the catcher. With the same 1/8 second timing window blocks, you now have a total of 24 possible swing results (making it harder to swing at the one or two timing blocks that results in hard hit balls).

I'm not sure if any of these theories are true. Maybe a combination of both of these theories is the true way in which the pitch speed slider works.

Whatever the case is, I strongly feel that a great set of hitting sliders will need to address the pitch speed slider because the pitch speed in some way affects how hard the ball is hit, the probability of a ball being hit hard, or a combination of both. So, if someone makes sliders with power set at 9, the pitch speed slider needs to be properly set to complement it. Because, there is no way you'll see enough HRs with power at 9 and pitch speed at 5. However, power at 9 might work with say a pitch speed of 13.

I play with pitch speed at -7 from default and get wonderful results. I started on zero and worked my way closer to default.

I find the fastball to very consistent with pitch speed at zero or 10. Its the variance between the slower offspeed and changeups compared to the fastball that I notice when changing speeds.

On default, the changeup and curveballs seem to fast and its rare that I get fooled on these pitches with higher pitch speed.

On lower pitch speeds I feel as though the difference between the fastball and slower offspeed stuff is more prevalent. Thats my theory. Pitch speed doesn't make the fastball that much tougher but the difference between the fastball and slower pitches more exaggerated.

So what's the ideal pitch speed? - my take is that it really comes down to one's individual skill set. For me, if I can turn on an inside 91mph fastball, then that's about right.

I should not be able to hit 93mph fastballs with ease. Watch baseball and you'll see that most hitters struggle with fastballs above 92 mph. They foul off alot and swing late.

I find I can layoff off the breaking pitches easier at higher pitch speeds as their break point occurs faster. At lower speeds, they tend to "hang" in the zone enough to tempt you to swing resulting in some wonderful hit variety that are outs!

[brunnoce]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

I play with pitch speed at -7 from default and get wonderful results. I started on zero and worked my way closer to default.

I find the fastball to very consistent with pitch speed at zero or 10. Its the variance between the slower offspeed and changeups compared to the fastball that I notice when changing speeds.

On default, the changeup and curveballs seem to fast and its rare that I get fooled on these pitches with higher pitch speed.

On lower pitch speeds I feel as though the difference between the fastball and slower offspeed stuff is more prevalent. Thats my theory. Pitch speed doesn't make the fastball that much tougher but the difference between the fastball and slower pitches more exaggerated.

So what's the ideal pitch speed? - my take is that it really comes down to one's individual skill set. For me, if I can turn on an inside 91mph fastball, then that's about right.

I should not be able to hit 93mph fastballs with ease. Watch baseball and you'll see that most hitters struggle with fastballs above 92 mph. They foul off alot and swing late.

I find I can layoff off the breaking pitches easier at higher pitch speeds as their break point occurs faster. At lower speeds, they tend to "hang" in the zone enough to tempt you to swing resulting in some wonderful hit variety that are outs!

great post m8
i couldnt agree more with what u said...
the part i higlighted explains perfectly the diference between the pitch speeds in my point opinion.

[cowboype2000]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

On lower pitch speeds I feel as though the difference between the fastball and slower offspeed stuff is more prevalent. Thats my theory. Pitch speed doesn't make the fastball that much tougher but the difference between the fastball and slower pitches more exaggerated.

I think I have to agree with you here too. Because, I maxed out pitch speed for a few innings and fastballs didn't really seem that much faster.

[pberardi]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

I think I have to agree with you here too. Because, I maxed out pitch speed for a few innings and fastballs didn't really seem that much faster.

Exactly. Once you get over the macho guilt of not playing with pitch speed at 20 (lol) you'll really enjoy hitting at lower speeds.

Lower speed does not equate to easier hitting. We who play at lower speeds will routinely swing late on average fastballs that are well placed. We get dominated by 95 heaters from guys like Escobar on the Angels no matter what the speed.

But its the sliders, changeups, curves, knucklecurves and so on that have a greater affect on timing at lower speeds. Essentially these pitches behave the way they're suppossed to when pitch speed is reduced. IMO.

The hit variety is tremendous!

The reason I play above zero was I found myself pulling 93 mph fastballs a bit too easy resulting in too many hits.

Keep in mind that the fastball is the dominant pitch in the game so you do have to taylor your pitch speed difficulty to the fastball.

In summary, the pitch speed slider is not about making the fastball so fast that you can now proclaim yourself the best MLB hitter because you can hit fastballs on pitch speed 20.

Its about slowing down the speeds between the fastball vs. the offspeed stuff thus making timing more challenging.

That's my humble opinion. I would certainly welcome anyone's view that may contradict mine.

[davewins]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

This is a very interesting topic and many have great points. I do think that cowboy is right in his theory that the physics engine takes pitch speed into consideration for how hard balls are hit.

I was thinking about trying pitch speed at 0 and power up about 4 clicks just to see what happens. I also will admit that I have never tried the way pberardi plays with pitch speed maxed out. So I will give this a shot to see what happens.

From viewing the videos cowboy posted I did notice one major difference between demo and retail. That is the physics of the batted balls. I hope this could help me with hitting the ball too hard the other way for hits all the time that I feel like I am too late on. It seems like they could of tweaked this a little. I see how balls are tailing much more when I barely noticed this at all in the demo. Interesting stuff...

[pberardi]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

This is a very interesting topic and many have great points. I do think that cowboy is right in his theory that the physics engine takes pitch speed into consideration for how hard balls are hit.

I was thinking about trying pitch speed at 0 and power up about 4 clicks just to see what happens. I also will admit that I have never tried the way pberardi plays with pitch speed maxed out. So I will give this a shot to see what happens.

From viewing the videos cowboy posted I did notice one major difference between demo and retail. That is the physics of the batted balls. I hope this could help me with hitting the ball too hard the other way for hits all the time that I feel like I am too late on. It seems like they could of tweaked this a little. I see how balls are tailing much more when I barely noticed this at all in the demo. Interesting stuff...

Dave, you misconstrued my post. I do not play with pitch speed maxed out. I tried it and found the fastball was hard to get around. However, I found the curveball and changeups appearing to be like fastballs with less pronounced movement, even though they are moving the same as lower speed. I could pick up the break much quicker on faster speed thus laying off more pitches.

Ironically, I probably can draw more walks and strikeouts at higher speeds.

What troubled me about higher speeds is that all my hits were vs. fastballs (late) or up the middle. At lower speeds I use the whole field as I should. That's because I swing early, late, etc... at so many variety of pitches. I still draw 3-6 walks per game and strikeout anywhere from 4-8x per game. I good ratio by baseball standards.

[davewins]

Re: The Pitch Speed Slider: A Theory

Dave, you misconstrued my post. I do not play with pitch speed maxed out. I tried it and found the fastball was hard to get around. However, I found the curveball and changeups appearing to be like fastballs with less pronounced movement, even though they are moving the same as lower speed. I could pick up the break much quicker on faster speed thus laying off more pitches.

Ironically, I probably can draw more walks and strikeouts at higher speeds.

What troubled me about higher speeds is that all my hits were vs. fastballs (late) or up the middle. At lower speeds I use the whole field as I should. That's because I swing early, late, etc... at so many variety of pitches. I still draw 3-6 walks per game and strikeout anywhere from 4-8x per game. I good ratio by baseball standards.

Oh ok. I just thought you were the one that maxed out pitch speed. It might be riz...

My problem is too many hits up the middle and opposite field and it's because of "fat" fastballs when the CPU gets his confidence down. Or just too many "fat" fastballs overall. Even on slow pitch speed...Changeups I will pull of course and curveballs but I just wish the CPU could place their fastballs better. In the big leagues you really don't see all that many "fat" fastballs. You do see some hanging curves sliders etc but "fat" fastballs not as many especially 4seam.