*****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

[bamaboy082]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

That's a great post. It seems like once you start tweaking sliders it's a never ending process and you usually end up hating the game or worst case think about how your going to adjust sliders or how to perfect your set throughout most of the day.

[ParisB]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I'm at the point that I darn near agree with that.

I just had one of the most disappointing games of my lifetime (and I threw a 3-hitter). I have been playing baseball video games since MicroLeague on Apple 2e followed by Earl Weaver baseball (Best baseball game ever, relative), and I have NEVER thrown a no-hitter.

Anyway, I have a no-hitter going through the 8th inning with 1-out. But, here's the thing, I'm pitching like absolute crap, and I just lowered the contact slider from 6 to 5 (consistency at 6), so the batters should be having a field day. I'm nowhere near the yellow line, yet no DBack hitter can do anything but pee-pee grounder all over the IF (Solid Hits = 1). It felt like the game had already determined that no batter would be able to hit (FWIW, I used these same sliders for the opening series of my franchise and The Reds just hit everything hard, as I gave up 23 runs in 3 games).

Finally, NYM got a hit in the 8th, and ended up with 3 hits over 9 IP. But, it did not feel as anything to celebrate. It felt like I could have attained the same result playing blindfolded. I didn't save the game (felt cheap), and replayed the game and lost 5-1 ... Wainwright gave up 2 runs on 6 hits over 7 ip (2 walks). There just seem to be games where you can tell right off whether it's going to be 1-0 or a football score.

You're simply looking way too into it. First of all it happens in real life all the time. I don't think you guys realize what happens in every game of every day if you follow the box scores. Whether it's blown saves, getting 25 hits (see the brewers tonight), scoring 8 runs in the 1st inning and then not getting a hit for the rest of the game, blowing a 5 run lead, everything goes right, everything goes wrong...........all that happens in real life.

It's like you guys expect every single game to have a final result of 1.0 homerun, 2.0 doubles, 0.3 triples, 3.5 walks, 1 SB, every hit to be earned, etc. LOL it just doesn't happen like that in real life.

The Angels last night blew a game where they couldn't get an out in the 9th inning....if that happened in The Show, you guys would be screaming bloody murder and that there's a comeback code or something. Look at how many blown saves there are per day.


Secondly, it's like you guys think it's only OK for you to get clutch hits or take advantage of errors, or chip away to steal a win. But when the CPU does it, you guys feel cheated and that there's nothing you can do about it.

Or when it's 1-0 it's scripted, or when it's 9-8 it's scripted, if it's 11-2 it's scripted. I don't get it, do you guys want every game to be 5-4 and fall in line with the averages? That's not realistic.

Just my .02 cents

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

You're simply looking way too into it.

I said [1] I felt as though I could have played the game blindfolded, and [2] I haven't felt this way before.

I gave up 10 runs in the first 2 innings against the Mets the other day and was fine with it, it happens.

No hitters into the 8th when you're not hitting the yellow line very often, is another story.

I'm a stat's geek trapped in an athlete's body, and I do look at boxies daily (avid reader of fangraphs, etc) and am well aware of small sample sizes, outliers, standard deviations, etc.

I look at per game averages over 10-game sets, noting the opponents. 10-game sets are a decent starting point because it's twice through the rotation and 3 series versus 3 different opponents (usually variance in strength). 15 games would be even better, 3 X's through rotation, 5 series.

The Angels last night blew a game where they couldn't get an out in the 9th inning....if that happened in The Show, you guys would be screaming bloody murder and that there's a comeback code or something. Look at how many blown saves there are per day.

I hope you took note that I was complaining about something that was working strongly in MY advantage.

Sometimes I think folks read into a post what they want so they can say something they've been wanting to say.

My overall point was: [1] in that single game I felt as though I had no input, because if I did Wainwright would have gotten shelled ... instead I had a no-no through 7.1, and finished with a 3-hit shutout, including a perfectly placed 1-2 fastball when I did not hit the button to stop it on the yellow line (I missed it completely), and [2] I think we pretty much have to play the game as it was programmed to play (default sliders, pick the level most appropriate for your skill). This game was programmed to play fast, hard hits, deep outfield, etc. When we try to "correct" one thing, then we make an issue elsewhere, and then when we address that issue, we create a new issue in another spot.

I'm not complaining so much as I am expressing the realization that you pretty much have to "take the game as it is" ... meaning specifically, when you try and remove the solid hits aspect, you drastically change the way runs are produced, fielders react, etc. As they say, it is what it is.

[coreyhartsdaughter]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

As I said, I felt as though I could have played that game blindfolded. I wasn't hitting the yellow line, getting poor contact, and just breezing through the lineup.

My favorite moment was on a 1-2 pitch, and I completely missed pushing the button (to stop it on the yellow line) and Wainwright pasted the low inside corner for strike 3.

I haven't had many games where I felt like this. I 1-hit Texas with Peavy before, but that was a game where I was hitting the yellow line 8 times out of 10 (and aiming on the border of the strike zone), and Peavy has great stuff.

FYI, missing the yellow line is actually a pitching technique to induce more movement on a pitch.

Example, throwing a few fastballs up in the zone stopping on the line, and then throwing one high and outside, but intentionally stopping it well below the yellow, it will actually tail away - making the batter miss if swinging, or get caught looking if they do not swing.

[rondoman]

Exactly CHD. Missing the yellow line does not mean youre gonna give up a ton of hits. Theres much more to it than that.

[ParisB]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I said [1] I felt as though I could have played the game blindfolded, and [2] I haven't felt this way before.

I gave up 10 runs in the first 2 innings against the Mets the other day and was fine with it, it happens.

No hitters into the 8th when you're not hitting the yellow line very often, is another story.

I'm a stat's geek trapped in an athlete's body, and I do look at boxies daily (avid reader of fangraphs, etc) and am well aware of small sample sizes, outliers, standard deviations, etc.

I look at per game averages over 10-game sets, noting the opponents. 10-game sets are a decent starting point because it's twice through the rotation and 3 series versus 3 different opponents (usually variance in strength). 15 games would be even better, 3 X's through rotation, 5 series.


I hope you took note that I was complaining about something that was working strongly in MY advantage.

Sometimes I think folks read into a post what they want so they can say something they've been wanting to say.

My overall point was: [1] in that single game I felt as though I had no input, because if I did Wainwright would have gotten shelled ... instead I had a no-no through 7.1, and finished with a 3-hit shutout, including a perfectly placed 1-2 fastball when I did not hit the button to stop it on the yellow line (I missed it completely), and [2] I think we pretty much have to play the game as it was programmed to play (default sliders, pick the level most appropriate for your skill). This game was programmed to play fast, hard hits, deep outfield, etc. When we try to "correct" one thing, then we make an issue elsewhere, and then when we address that issue, we create a new issue in another spot.

I'm not complaining so much as I am expressing the realization that you pretty much have to "take the game as it is" ... meaning specifically, when you try and remove the solid hits aspect, you drastically change the way runs are produced, fielders react, etc. As they say, it is what it is.

no you don't

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

Or when it's 1-0 it's scripted, or when it's 9-8 it's scripted, if it's 11-2 it's scripted.

I did say the other day thought I thought wind speed was a decent predictor of how the games would play out, as it seemed wind speed affected quality of contact, not just distance of the long fly balls. I say "seems" because I did not collect and analyze data on it. That would be a programming type of issue if it were the case.

IMO, a video game would be more consistent then MLB, because there are "less variables", specifically less moving parts. People probably pitch very similarly on the meter, or even with classic pitching, every time out. They also likely hit pretty much with the same philosophy, approach, and methods each game ... unlike baseball where there are a lot more "moving parts" in the machine.

I'm fine with randomness, variety, etc and all that.

I have not complained about low and away sliders being pulled over the wall, or things of that nature that would give the "scripted" appearance, because I have not seen those issues.

I'm new to the show in 2010, so I am not aware of previous discussions, nor do I have any emotional attachment for or against it. I do admit to be frustrated trying to tweak sliders to get more realistic stats. But, that's my own fault, because rather than starting with default and recording data in 10-15 game sets and adjusting from there, i started with other sliders that already had big adjustments to them. I do suspect that over a good sample of games at default (or close to it) sliders, one will attain very close to MLB averages for results, which seems to be a calling card for this game series. <== good thing.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

no you don't

I should have said "I", since I can only speak from my personal experience (I posted slider stats some pages ago comparing SH = 0 to SH = 1).

I'm not out to establish myself as an expert, earn street cred, or become an internet personality or anything of the sort. I'm really just searching for ideas on how to get the most realistic results possible, as my past experience led me to think that user sliders are generally more fine tuned.

I am open to others posting their slider results for large numbers of games (even a screenshot of their profile stats will work) to show that the slider stats are realistic. I find that stuff convincing. I don;t find the "feel", or "think" or "I said so" comments convincing (not that I am assuming that everyone exists to convince me), only that there is so much slider talk here, i thought I'd see more "stats", especially since it's well documented that the human memory often creates an inaccurate perception of events (especially in baseball, which is why stats are so integral).

[ParisB]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I'll post some screenshots in a little bit

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I'll post some screenshots in a little bit

That'd be cool to me. As I said, I'm not here in a confrontational or argumentative way (I'm in my 30's AND it's a video game). I want to enjoy the game, and also have it play as realistically as possible (which enhances my enjoyment).

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

Edit: On second glance, there's only weak to moderate correlation between wind and total runs and hits, certainly nothing in the realm of causation ... especially given all of the variables that go into such a small sample size of 10 games. Nothing worth even considering at this point.

[ParisB]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

doh, i had a brain freeze

i just popped in the game to play a quickie and post a screenshot of my profile stats, but after my game i shut it off and completely forgot until i came back to this thread

tomorrow?

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I was going to say the same thing.

When you lower control, you better make a compensatory move to lower something for the batters, to balance out.

That's the issue with other sliders, they BOTH increase pitching sliders AND lower batting sliders. So the greatly help the pitchers, while hurting the hitters simultaneously. The default sliders and game engine don't necessitate that. (IMHO)

You're never going to get realistic walk numbers in a video game. Here's why .... the pitcher's would either need to nibble to the point that they'd either throw a ball or paint the corner. [1] Batters would not get much to hit well, and [2] it'd be a guessing game with the user trying to determine if it's a strike or 1mm off the plate. The other option would be to have the pitcher so wild that it'd never be in the same place twice. That would also make it very difficult to hit and/or lead to erratic pitching strategy.

You can have a lot of walks or you can have a lot of hits, but not both (or so it seems). It's been like that from High Heat on through this series. The IMPORTANT thing is you have to have a lot of one of them. It's required to get the right number of runners per game (WHIP), because that directly leads to runs per game, which IMO, is the single most important statistic for realism (9.5 runs per game, teams combined).

If I am wrong about this or someone has achieved realistic MLB average results per game, please post a screenshot of your profile showing those stats. I would love to know it's possible, and I'd love to hear how you accomplished it.

But the main thing is, if you're going to lower pitching sliders, then you also need to lower a batting slider. For example, if you lower control to 5, then lower batting timing, solid hits, or something else by 1 click. Keep everything "balanced", unless you are so good/bad at one extreme (batting or hitting), but then moving up/down a level would likely be a better choice (i.e., all-star batting, HoF pitching)

I understand what you are saying. Basically the game is programmed to get what it deems a realistic result, and sliders will skew how it goes about doing that.

Well heck, I might as well just play on default then lol.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

I understand what you are saying. Basically the game is programmed to get what it deems a realistic result, and sliders will skew how it goes about doing that.

Well heck, I might as well just play on default then lol.

I've played 2 games at true default.

Game 1
---------------
StL ... 5-13-0 (KLohse)
ARZ ... 4-14-0 (EJackson)

Game 2
--------------
StL ... 0-2-0 (BPenny)
ARZ ... 1-5-0 (BBuckner)

Kelly Johnson wins game in 10th with a single down the line.

2 very different games.

My plan to is to play default sliders for 20 games and let the numbers (per game averages, combined teams) "fall where they may", and then go with that.

What I meant by "how the game is programmed to play" is that the various aspects are tied to each other in certain ratios. For example, outfield depth and speed relates to how hard the ball is struck. Baserunner speed relates to fielder arm speed and infield reaction. When you change one thing, you often need to alter another to keep the balance.

For example, if you lower fielder arms to prevent the runners from being thrown out at 3rd, you've also likely taken away the catcher's ability to throw out would be base stealers. So what now? Lower base stealing ability?

If we lower the quality of batted balls, now we have to make an accommodation to slow down the OF's ... if we increase pitching accuracy/control (so they aim for the corners, more balls, more walks), now we have to do something help the hitters make good contact when they get mostly "pitcher's pitches", and it seemingly goes on forever.

I have little doubt that each person (except maybe me, ha ha) cna find sliders that are "good for them", since the default sliders are likely very good. The game does play a little faster at default, but perhaps it should.

We also realize that if companies made a video game that was [1] slower paced, [2] really difficult, [3] meticulous attention to detail, [4] requiring a large learning curve (like baseball does) ... they wouldn't sell very many copies. More and more, sports games will be made for quick, action-packed, online experiences.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: *****The 'Perfect' Slider Set***** MLB 10 - The Show

Exactly CHD. Missing the yellow line does not mean youre gonna give up a ton of hits. Theres much more to it than that.

It wasn't the lack of hits that was bothering me (we've all given up hits on "swinging bunts"), but the complete lack of solid contact. Everything was a 3 hopper right at the IF. One of those games where I didn't even seem to need to do "anything". No matter where the pitch was, it seemingly got weakly hit right at a fielder.

This point/discussion does bring up a very interesting subject, and that is "ratings based outcomes v. user control". It's a tough mix. We want the guys to perform like they do "in real life", yet want to be rewarded/punished for the mistakes/credits that we execute as gamers. We want Pujols to hit a realistic amount of homers, but then we also want to hit a homer when we use power swing on a meatball and get perfect timing and solid contact (even though that could lead to Pujols hitting 90 HRs in a season).

MVP (PC, modded08), for me, got to the point where I felt I had too much user influence and could essentially be good with about any team (even with modded sliders, physics, etc). Sometimes on the show, it feels as if there is minimal user influence. That's not to accuse of "predetermined" or anything of the sort, only differences/variation in programming and/or perceived outcomes. The number of variables that goes into everything makes it difficult to make affirmative statements/conclusions.