pitch consistency and pitch control need help

[nomo17k]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

It's impossible to determine how the PCI reacts in a simulated game (short of manipulating the contact slider), but it can be assumed during a given Human game the amount of times the Human player is able to hit a well struck ball is determined by a multitude (almost limitless) number of elements. (versus the few that can possibly derived from simulations)

Right, I agree. But this is a general issue involving people having different characters in how they play, and there is really no way to solve by, say, one set of sliders.

My point is that although through simulations one could determine the variance of how a single slider effects results, (not to mention standard deviation) the swing in how a particular slider effects a game played by a human is enormous. If I were to max out or zero a particular slider during my games, the variance would be far greater than that of a simulated test.

This is precisely the reason why I'm (sort of) testing sliders using CPU vs CPU, just to see how each slider affect the game by eliminating the human factors.

But I personally think the sliders themselves work the same way for human and CPU. Just that the ways they need to be adjusted are different, because human and CPU react differently even to the same stimulation, and the AI strategy varies a lot at different difficulty levels.

Sorry, irrelevant for the OP, but it came up so I just want to have a comment...

[nomo17k]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

But the 1st picture is just 1 AB, any set of sliders can give you a good 1 AB pitch chart.

The 2nd picture doesn't tell you when in the count the balls and strikes come. Is the pitcher constantly falling behind or jumping ahead in an unrealistic fashion? I can't tell from pitch charts. I can take in much more information from a video of several ABs with different pitchers than seeing pitch charts from several games.

Do you see any kind of trends with my ABs against the CPU in which you would have any concerns? Most of you were saying the CPU would turn into in corner nibbling pitchers with my sliders with most balls being too hard to take and strikes being on the corners too much and being too hard to hit. Did any of those issues rear their heads in the videos I posted? I faced King Felix and I'm sure most up you would've assumed he'd be painting all game with my settings but he just wasn't doing that. Both pitchers were pretty high on confidence as well since I only scored 2 runs. So under the worst circumstances, my ball/strike ratio held very solid.

CHD's way of showing the pitch sequence is still easier to understand because it eliminates the need of having to watch the movie (i.e., takes a long time), and it's hard to remember the precise pitch sequences over a long time anyways.

Yet, I think all these will still be hard to interpret, because any way you do, I think the "small sample size" will be an issue. (Unless you are deranged enough to keep racking up data for many, many games like I've been doing...)

Say you have the pitch charts or even videos for two cases: (1) sliders at default and (2) your control/consistency combo.

Without identify which is which, I just show you both pitch charts/videos. Then I ask, which game was played with your slider. Are you confident that you can properly identify them? Unless you have results from many games, I bet you really cannot.

But of course our goal was to help the OP, who has problem drawing walks. And for that, you kinda gave us an answer by your stats. You are drawing only about 2 walks per game on average, which isn't particularly high. CPU vs CPU gives 2.5 at default, and the MLB ave is about 3.3. Doesn't that tell us your slider set isn't doing what you claim it does already? How many were you drawing with the default set?

[JackBurton]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

CHD's way of showing the pitch sequence is still easier to understand because it eliminates the need of having to watch the movie (i.e., takes a long time), and it's hard to remember the precise pitch sequences over a long time anyways.

Yet, I think all these will still be hard to interpret, because any way you do, I think the "small sample size" will be an issue. (Unless you are deranged enough to keep racking up data for many, many games like I've been doing...)

Say you have the pitch charts or even videos for two cases: (1) sliders at default and (2) your control/consistency combo.

Without identify which is which, I just show you both pitch charts/videos. Then I ask, which game was played with your slider. Are you confident that you can properly identify them? Unless you have results from many games, I bet you really cannot.

But of course our goal was to help the OP, who has problem drawing walks. And for that, you kinda gave us an answer by your stats. You are drawing only about 2 walks per game on average, which isn't particularly high. CPU vs CPU gives 2.5 at default, and the MLB ave is about 3.3. Doesn't that tell us your slider set isn't doing what you claim it does already? How many were you drawing with the default set?

I really don't care how the default CPU pitching sliders fair in walks because the abundance of wild pitches makes the default sliders a no-go for me plus you tested them in your studies anyways. The wild pitch issue is the reason why I adjusted the sliders to begin with; seeing multiple wild pitches in one half inning quite regularly was a major issue. The goal was trying to get a realistic ball/strike ratio while controlling wild pitches. In the end, I just care that my sliders yield realistic results. I can probably tell the difference in my sliders vs other sliders just based on wild pitch numbers alone as I think I'm the only one who is getting realistic wild pitch numbers without editing catchers. I also remember a discussion about not seeing walks with pitchers with high confidence in one of those long CPU threads; with my sliders, I see walks regardless of pitcher confidence. If a pitcher with a great BB/9 rating has high confidence, I won't be seeing much walks; however, I'll be able to draw walks against a pitcher with a poor to decent BB/9 inning rating with high confidence. One game against the Dodgers I remember only putting together like 5 hits or so but I scored 6 runs because of walks. In one inning with 2 outs, I walked with 2 batters consecutively and then Carlos Pena stepped in and hit a huge 3 run HR.

My stats weren't up to the MLB average (I did average a bit over 2 walks/game) but in my games, I always felt working walks was a definite possibly and walks did play an important role in several games. I did have a streak of games in the middle of the season where I got swing happy. I noticed it and made myself buckle down and work more counts, and I had a 7 walk game against the Yankees and AJ Burnett. I had basically the lowest number of ABs in the league, which is also a contributing factor to below average walks, fewer ABs = fewer chances for drawing a walk. From the few people that did try my sliders in the CPU threads, they really liked the feel of how the games played, and their stats were very solid, basically averaging 3 walks a game.

I'll try to get some games in tonight and post a couple pitching charts from the end of game screen. I'm not one who requires loads of stats to know the game is playing properly, I can just tell if I'm getting realistic games by playing them. It's kinda hard to explain, but I can just feel if things are off to a degree. I do require stats for the more subtle things like base stealing, which I'm glad you did a study on the steal ability slider because that did require tracking stats for a prolonged period to see the proper trends.

[nomo17k]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

I really don't care how the default CPU pitching sliders fair in walks because the abundance of wild pitches makes the default sliders a no-go for me plus you tested them in your studies anyways. The wild pitch issue is the reason why I adjusted the sliders to begin with; seeing multiple wild pitches in one half inning quite regularly was a major issue. The goal was trying to get a realistic ball/strike ratio while controlling wild pitches. In the end, I just care that my sliders yield realistic results. I can probably tell the difference in my sliders vs other sliders just based on wild pitch numbers alone as I think I'm the only one who is getting realistic wild pitch numbers without editing catchers. I also remember a discussion about not seeing walks with pitchers with high confidence in one of those long CPU threads; with my sliders, I see walks regardless of pitcher confidence. If a pitcher with a great BB/9 rating has high confidence, I won't be seeing much walks; however, I'll be able to draw walks against a pitcher with a poor to decent BB/9 inning rating with high confidence. One game against the Dodgers I remember only putting together like 5 hits or so but I scored 6 runs because of walks. In one inning with 2 outs, I walked with 2 batters consecutively and then Carlos Pena stepped in and hit a huge 3 run HR.

My stats weren't up to the MLB average (I did average a bit over 2 walks/game) but in my games, I always felt working walks was a definite possibly and walks did play an important role in several games. I did have a streak of games in the middle of the season where I got swing happy. I noticed it and made myself buckle down and work more counts, and I had a 7 walk game against the Yankees and AJ Burnett. I had basically the lowest number of ABs in the league, which is also a contributing factor to below average walks, fewer ABs = fewer chances for drawing a walk. From the few people that did try my sliders in the CPU threads, they really liked the feel of how the games played, and their stats were very solid, basically averaging 3 walks a game.

I'll try to get some games in tonight and post a couple pitching charts from the end of game screen. I'm not one who requires loads of stats to know the game is playing properly, I can just tell if I'm getting realistic games by playing them. It's kinda hard to explain, but I can just feel if things are off to a degree. I do require stats for the more subtle things like base stealing, which I'm glad you did a study on the steal ability slider because that did require tracking stats for a prolonged period to see the proper trends.

The issue is whether your suggestion helps the OP or not. So far everyone except you thinks your suggestion will not help the OP.

You say you can keep the number of WPs down by your set. Where is the evidence? Number? You keep saying you can have realistic strike to ball ratio. Really? Isn't it easy to post what number you are getting?

If things are working fine for you, that's great. Everyone plays differently so I won't deny the fact that your sliders are working great for you. To an individual, all that matters is how s/he feels after all. I don't have any problem if a kid claims that his mom is the most beautiful looking woman in the world, even if she really looks like Susan Boyle. What makes him happy is what matters most. But to suggest that's universally accepted won't do any good.

I just don't understand why you keep trying even though basically by being banned multiple times, people are telling you that you are not adding to the common knowledge constructively. There are better ways to convince people than just basically saying "I can see what you cannot see."

To varying degrees people in this forum are interested in finding how things really work, so if you are really on to something and can convince, they will understand. They just don't because you have not been very convincing.

[starwars]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

ok i havent had a lot of time to play scences i made these thread because i have been watching nba playoffs. I have tried pitch consistency at 8 and pitch control at 7 before i had played 7 games in franchise mode with the gaints on allstar hiting zone with pitch control and pitch consistency at 5 and only had 10 walks in those games scences i changed pitch consistency to 8 and pitch control to 7 i have drawn 7 walks in 2 games and i fell like the computer is throwing more balls i think these might have soved my issue with walks but i need to play more has 2 games is a small sample size now if only i could strikeout less i have strikeout 84 times in these games about 9.5 times a game and am only averge about 7 hitts a game has hitting semes hard this year may have to up hitting sliders has i been playing with all hitting sliders at default besides fouls at 7 and contact at 6 may have to up contact to 7 and time to 7 i am only hiting 216 and score like 2.7 runs a game

[JackBurton]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

ok i havent had a lot of time to play scences i made these thread because i have been watching nba playoffs. I have tried pitch consistency at 8 and pitch control at 7 before i had played 7 games in franchise mode with the gaints on allstar hiting zone with pitch control and pitch consistency at 5 and only had 10 walks in those games scences i changed pitch consistency to 8 and pitch control to 7 i have drawn 7 walks in 2 games and i fell like the computer is throwing more balls i think these might have soved my issue with walks but i need to play more has 2 games is a small sample size now if only i could strikeout less i have strikeout 84 times in these games about 9.5 times a game and am only averge about 7 hitts a game has hitting semes hard this year may have to up hitting sliders has i been playing with all hitting sliders at default besides fouls at 7 and contact at 6 may have to up contact to 7 and time to 7 i am only hiting 216 and score like 2.7 runs a game

I'm glad the 8 and 7 setting has helped at least in the very short term. With the strikeout issue, you can try the following things:

Are you using the contact swing on 2 strikes? I find that can really decrease strikeouts as the PCI gets bigger plus you can check swing very easily.

I would lower pitch speed if you can't turn on an inside fastball when you are looking for it or if you can't properly hit high fastballs when looking for them. That's how I set my pitch speed as you shouldn't be struggling on fastballs when you are sitting on them.

Have you tried fooling around with all the batting cams? I personally love catcher cam 9; however, everyone is different. I would suggest giving a bunch a cams a try in batting practice mode if you haven't already.

Raising timing helps in lowering strikeouts. It shouldn't make a huge difference but at the same time, it won't increase hit totals much either. Raising contact will increase your PCI and this will have the most impact for increasing hit totals so if you move it up.

[JackBurton]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

The issue is whether your suggestion helps the OP or not. So far everyone except you thinks your suggestion will not help the OP.

You say you can keep the number of WPs down by your set. Where is the evidence? Number? You keep saying you can have realistic strike to ball ratio. Really? Isn't it easy to post what number you are getting?

If things are working fine for you, that's great. Everyone plays differently so I won't deny the fact that your sliders are working great for you. To an individual, all that matters is how s/he feels after all. I don't have any problem if a kid claims that his mom is the most beautiful looking woman in the world, even if she really looks like Susan Boyle. What makes him happy is what matters most. But to suggest that's universally accepted won't do any good.

Here's 17 innings worth of pitch charts. I started a new season while I'm waiting for the next patch. I basically played 2 and a half games as the first time playing the 1st game of the season, the game froze and I had to start again only to play a 17 inning affair. And, out of 257 CPU pitches, there was only 1 wild pitch, which was thrown in the 17th inning with the CPU pitcher that had the highest BB/9 rating, go figure, that's baseball.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PZpoOcDhvt4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="640"></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DL2nG-1yn4s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="640"></iframe>

Everybody that has actually tried my sliders has liked them. And, your analogy makes no sense, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but in baseball, you are either getting realistic games and stats or you are not, it's as simple as that. Beauty is subjective, baseball stats are objective. Getting 5 errors a game or batting over .300 as a team is not realistic baseball whether the person playing is fine with those stats or not.

Most of you are basically saying I'm lying about my stats. Why would I post that I have wild pitches under control when I don't? Wild pitches are still a touch high just because of the bad physics of the ball bouncing off the catcher and going like 10 feet away resulting in an additional wild pitch here and there. In the video of batting for 10 innings, there was no wild pitches and now there was 1 wild pitch in a 17 inning game. I'm guessing you haven't even tried my sliders yet you are saying/assuming they don't work. I posted a video of 10 innings of me batting, then you all want pitching charts. I got two 4 pitch walks in the game I played where the pitching charts come from, but you won't see those 4 pitch walks in them unless I go to those specific ABs, which I did in the second video. I still think the video is more informative than the pitching charts as you saw all my slider settings and you saw the ABs, there was no tricks whatsoever, nothing could've been hidden, there couldn't have been any edits as the music would've skipped. I could've switched teams or something in the game where my charts came from and put those 4 pitch walks in but I didn't, and with a video no tampering of any kind is possible. I'm sure most you assumed my pitching sliders would create corner painting pitching robots but as you can see in the video and now the charts I posted, that is not at all the case.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

Jack..

Here's this issue. NO ONE...unless I missed it...said you were lying.

Prove me wrong. Quote it. I'd gather you can't.

As long as you allow emotions to get involved in slider debates, this conversation will go absolutely nowhere.

I believe you that you're seeing very few wild pitches, and over 2 walks a game. But how is 2 BB acceptable to you??? I just don't get how that trade off is worth the minimal reduction of WP? Give me 3.5 BB any day. I could care less about WP if I have to choose between the two.

Nomo isn't saying you're lying. I'm fairly certain he'd be swayed by just a notebook full of numbers. Not video. Not charts. Just stats. Like I track...and even according to you, I'm seeing more walks than you. And, I can provide a plethora of game stats. One or two games of video aren't enough to sway anyone. Right?

Over my last 16 games, I've walked 55 times. That's 3.44 BB per game.

HOF. 5/5/3.

Do you have any stretches like that? If so, we'd love to see it.

I can post each individual game stats as well if proof is needed. Including CPU strike percentages, and strike percentages in early counts. I track almost everything.

[nomo17k]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

h&v is correct. I never said you are lying. I still don't think you are lying. Only you are not properly interpreting what your data really are telling you.

And, your analogy makes no sense, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but in baseball, you are either getting realistic games and stats or you are not, it's as simple as that. Beauty is subjective, baseball stats are objective.

Yes, I agree stats are much easier to universally convince people of something. However, the problem is that you still haven't really provided enough statistical support for your hypothesis.

I'll show you an example. From a series of CPU vs CPU games that I've played with the pitcher consistency slider at 2, the attached are the numbers that I got from the box scores.

If I compute WP per game per team from just this portion, I get 0.33 WP and 3.33 walks per game per team, which are almost in line with the MLB aves. Should I conclude that the pitcher consistency slider at 2 yields the most realistic walks and WP stats?

No, because over a much longer span of > 30 games or so, it averaged out to something like 0.9 WP per game (while walks number stayed similar). What this tells me is that I didn't have enough sample size to really nail down this part of the game. I just could not really base my opinion on just after 6 successive games.

The evidence you quoted is just from one game or two games. How should we be convinced of your claim after seeing this example?

[Qb]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

Fascinating discussion and perfectly acceptable... big brother is proud.


PS - H&V, I'm coming after you once I try HOF 5/5/3 and get my rear handed to me!

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

Fascinating discussion and perfectly acceptable... big brother is proud.


PS - H&V, I'm coming after you once I try HOF 5/5/3 and get my rear handed to me!

Bring it on, Quarterback!!!

Before we brawl, just letting you know, it's brutally hard. Pitches seem to be all over the strikezone, so it's tougher to zone a certain pitch for me than it was on Default. But walks are MUCH better.

I do, however, expect most OS'ers to hit better than I am currently. My brother (NOT hardcore like me), is hitting like .40 points higher than I am with the same exact settings. Just putting that out there.

[caseyj622]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

Here's 17 innings worth of pitch charts. I started a new season while I'm waiting for the next patch. I basically played 2 and a half games as the first time playing the 1st game of the season, the game froze and I had to start again only to play a 17 inning affair. And, out of 257 CPU pitches, there was only 1 wild pitch, which was thrown in the 17th inning with the CPU pitcher that had the highest BB/9 rating, go figure, that's baseball.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PZpoOcDhvt4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="640"></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DL2nG-1yn4s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="640"></iframe>

Everybody that has actually tried my sliders has liked them. And, your analogy makes no sense, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but in baseball, you are either getting realistic games and stats or you are not, it's as simple as that. Beauty is subjective, baseball stats are objective. Getting 5 errors a game or batting over .300 as a team is not realistic baseball whether the person playing is fine with those stats or not.

Most of you are basically saying I'm lying about my stats. Why would I post that I have wild pitches under control when I don't? Wild pitches are still a touch high just because of the bad physics of the ball bouncing off the catcher and going like 10 feet away resulting in an additional wild pitch here and there. In the video of batting for 10 innings, there was no wild pitches and now there was 1 wild pitch in a 17 inning game. I'm guessing you haven't even tried my sliders yet you are saying/assuming they don't work. I posted a video of 10 innings of me batting, then you all want pitching charts. I got two 4 pitch walks in the game I played where the pitching charts come from, but you won't see those 4 pitch walks in them unless I go to those specific ABs, which I did in the second video. I still think the video is more informative than the pitching charts as you saw all my slider settings and you saw the ABs, there was no tricks whatsoever, nothing could've been hidden, there couldn't have been any edits as the music would've skipped. I could've switched teams or something in the game where my charts came from and put those 4 pitch walks in but I didn't, and with a video no tampering of any kind is possible. I'm sure most you assumed my pitching sliders would create corner painting pitching robots but as you can see in the video and now the charts I posted, that is not at all the case.

Where can I find your sliders? I would like to give them a try. Also, I'm playing on Legend pitching with the CPU hitting sliders all at default. They seem to not be hitting very well at all. Lots of weak groundouts. The White Sox barely hit .200 the last series I played. They mostly hit singles. I just didn't feel scared of pitching to their big hitters like Dunn or Konerko at all. It felt so wrong. I WANT to be afraid of those guys. Which slider should I change to accommodate this?

[JackBurton]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

@ nomo17k

When I say I have wild pitches under control, I mean that you won't be seeing those innings where the CPU throws like 2 or more wild pitches in an inning. That is something I saw rather regularly up until I went up to 8 on pitcher consistency. Yes, more than one wild pitch can happen in an inning in real baseball, but it's like once in a blue moon whereas in the game, it would happen back-to-back games or every other game. I don't know if my wild pitch numbers are 100% in line with real baseball, but I've eliminated the those innings where they would come in bunches. I even said that I'll probably see too many wild pitches due to the ball bouncing 10 feet away from the catcher too often. I'm not going to mess up my CPU pitching sliders just to get one less wild pitch over the span of like 3 games. In a baseball game, I feel there is acceptable losses so to speak as it's really hard to get every stat inline with real baseball, I really don't like doing mass edits of players, and I prefer using sliders to do basically everything. With CPU vs CPU, there is inherently less acceptable losses just because a human playing the games just adds in so many more variables that it would probably take months just trying to get every stat perfect if it is even possible. Now if something is too far off real baseball, then I will do the player edits. I did the pitcher edits in 06 or 08 where the CPU would pull basically every starter around the 4th/5th inning, and the fix required upping all the starters stamina and pitching clutch ratings if I recall correctly.

Also, I'm pretty sure you guys (the CPU guys) have edited all the catchers in the game, I have not edited any player on my rosters. So, I really don't think your wild pitch stats relevant due to me not editing catchers and you editing catchers (correct me if I'm wrong about you editing the catchers but I think you have). Last year, my sliders only required the editing of 2 players (the user's catchers) as for some reason the CPU stealers ran slower than the user's stealers so you had to lower your catchers' arm strength.

@ Heroes

I am a opponent of the 'increase the control / consistency so that a CPU will try to paint the corners more / causing more balls' argument. I belive all this does is allow the pitcher a smaller margin of effected error on intended targets.

Same here. All it does is turn everyone into nibblers ... marksmen nibblers to be exact.

Maybe no one has called me a straight up liar but they at least did not believe what I was posting or assumed my sliders will make pitchers nibble all game.

ParisB I feel thinks that because I have consistency so high that my pitching charts won't have the proper variety as you would get in a real game. Basically, I interpret his posts to say that with my settings, the CPU will nibble too much like Corey and Triple were saying.

I challenge you to keep track of the pitching charts after each game with Consistency lowered to 0 for 10 games straight, and then Consistency raised to 10 for 10 games straight.

I can guarantee you which one will have a wider spread and variety of misses...

I agreed that raising consistency reduces variety in the pitching chart but raising control counteracts that and will then increase variety without having the "big" misses of a lowered consistency.

---

I posted a 17 inning pitching chart and I don't get why you just can't comment on what I've posted. It's basically, "Ok, you posted a video, I want to see pitching charts, you posted a pitching chart from a game, I need to see a large sample size."

Nomo asked to see charts from a few games. The one chart I posted is basically like 2 games since it was 17 innings plus I got the video up as well which is basically a full game of batting.

Can you guys just look at the stuff I have put up and tell if anything looks off instead of just saying, "we need more"? Like is the pitching chart I put up acceptable and realistic to you? I don't have a problem with you saying what is there does look good or bad while noting it was just 17 innings; you guys are just saying you need more, but why not comment and critique on what I have provided? If the CPU continues pitching in the manner depicted in the chart and video, would you say that is realistic pitching? Is there enough variety in the charts?

The average strike percentage is 62% and the CPU had a 61% strike in the 17 inning game, so that is spot-on.

[JackBurton]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

Where can I find your sliders? I would like to give them a try. Also, I'm playing on Legend pitching with the CPU hitting sliders all at default. They seem to not be hitting very well at all. Lots of weak groundouts. The White Sox barely hit .200 the last series I played. They mostly hit singles. I just didn't feel scared of pitching to their big hitters like Dunn or Konerko at all. It felt so wrong. I WANT to be afraid of those guys. Which slider should I change to accommodate this?

Yeah, I had the same issue as you with CPU hitting. The CPU batting AI has really been improved and made more realistic; however, both analog and meter pitching allows you to pitch with too much accuracy thereby causing the CPU to be rather inept at the plate. I have raised CPU contact to 6 and contact is by far the most important and powerful hitting slider; just look at the CPU's swing analysis on swings and you'll notice their PCI is bigger than with contact at default. And I have CPU timing at 9.

I just posted my sliders here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2042321775

[nomo17k]

Re: pitch consistency and pitch control need help

@ nomo17k

When I say I have wild pitches under control, I mean that you won't be seeing those innings where the CPU throws like 2 or more wild pitches in an inning. That is something I saw rather regularly up until I went up to 8 on pitcher consistency. Yes, more than one wild pitch can happen in an inning in real baseball, but it's like once in a blue moon whereas in the game, it would happen back-to-back games or every other game. I don't know if my wild pitch numbers are 100% in line with real baseball, but I've eliminated the those innings where they would come in bunches. I even said that I'll probably see too many wild pitches due to the ball bouncing 10 feet away from the catcher too often. I'm not going to mess up my CPU pitching sliders just to get one less wild pitch over the span of like 3 games. In a baseball game, I feel there is acceptable losses so to speak as it's really hard to get every stat inline with real baseball, I really don't like doing mass edits of players, and I prefer using sliders to do basically everything. Now if something isn't close to real, then I will do the player edits. I did the pitcher edits in 06 or 08 where the CPU would pull basically every starter around the 4th/5th inning, and the fix required upping all the starters stamina and pitching clutch ratings if I recall correctly.

I understand what you want to say, but if what you are claiming is really occurring it *will* show up in the reduced number of WPs over a long run. And it is that average over a long run that is much more helpful than any of the evidence you have provided. Thank you very much for the effort of creating videos and stuff, but I've indicated it will be hard to interpret pitch charts and honestly I don't know what to make of them till I compare what you posted with the charts for say the sliders at default.

And it is not surprising that increasing the consistency resulting in lower WPs. That's not the part I was arguing against. I just mentioned WPs because that's something that came into discussion because one of your reasons for increasing consistency appears to be to reduce WPs, which would be good if it actually increases the number of walks, which I still don't see evidence for.

The first thing I asked was numbers which is much easier to interpret, which didn't really show the evidence that your slider combo does increase the number of walks.

In the box score, there are total of 7 walks. For a 17 inning game, that's low isn't it? You say "it's just one game"? Then we need more games to average over...

That's my argument for racking up more data on walks...

Also, I'm pretty sure you guys (the CPU guys) have edited all the catchers in the game, I have not edited any player on my rosters. Last year, my sliders only required the editing of 2 players (the user's catchers) as for some reason the CPU stealers ran slower than the user's stealers so you had to lower your catchers' arm strength.

I haven't edited because I hate editing to get that sort of minute details right. I just tested with maxing out the fielding ability to see if that has any effect on WPs (which didn't have any at all it appeared).

But again, the issue is not WPs. It's the number of walks.

Nomo asked to see charts from a few games. The one chart I posted is basically like 2 games since it was 17 innings plus I got the video up as well which is basically a full game of batting.

Can you guys just look at the stuff I have put up and tell if anything looks off instead of just saying, "we need more"? Like is the pitching chart I put up acceptable and realistic to you? I don't have a problem with you saying what is there does look good or bad while noting it was just 17 innings; you guys are just saying you need more, but why not comment and critique on what I have provided? If the CPU continues pitching in the manner depicted in the chart and video, would you say that is realistic pitching? Is there enough variety in the charts?

The average strike percentage is 62% and the CPU had a 61% strike in the 17 inning game, so that is spot-on.

Honestly, it's hard for me to interpret the charts without anything to compare with. Even with something to compare with, it will be hard for me. That I said earlier. The reason why I think it will be hard is that pitchers are still quite wild even at the BB/9, pitch controls ratings, the pitch control and consistency all maxed out. I attach an example pitch chart for a pitcher with maxed out rating and those sliders maxed out. Each pitch I aimed down the middle with the classic pitching interface. Still see quite some wildness! If I get this much wildness with the best control pitcher with juiced slider set, what should I expect from pitchers "nibbling the corners"? I say hard to interpret.

And you provided with us the long term average, which is just over 2 BB per game. Does this mean your sliders helped you increase the number of walks? Could be, if you were drawing 0.5 BB per game with a default set on average. But who knows what your average was at default? In order to claim something really has an effect, you need some baseline. Otherwise who know all you see may be a placebo effect, you know.

Again, my main thing is walks which is the OP's question, so please don't bring up other points to me. I don't wish to go off track too much.

And I emphasize that I'm not trying to discredit your theory outright. I'm just trying to prove a point that you haven't proved anything with the limited amount of data you showed.


By the way, I tried a bit of everyone's slider in MLB 10, Jack, yours (under a different name) included. I was most excited to try yours since I was really looking for realistic pitcher vs. batter matchups and you were so convinced you got that right last year. But I wasn't sure the set worked as you described...