2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

[TheM4yor1]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

I have a general question about downloading rosters and content from the vault. Say I download an OSFM roster like this hybrid version, and I also see a download for an individual player (Jonathan Schoop for example). Given that the attributes on the individual download are different than what is in the OSFM roster update, will the two still be able to work together?


In other words, will my download of Schoop and the OSFM work together? Or would I have to use the default roster with the Schoop-only download?


Thank you for any insight, and if both can be used together (hopefully), please let me know how to do so (unless it automatically applies once both are downloaded). Thanks again!

[TheM4yor1]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

And also along the same lines, if there is an OSFM roster of I specific team that I may prefer over another, can I use them both at the same time? Meaning is there a way to have one team roster download apply and the original roster apply for the other 29? I hope this all makes sense. Thanks!

[Totte]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

I have a general question about downloading rosters and content from the vault. Say I download an OSFM roster like this hybrid version, and I also see a download for an individual player (Jonathan Schoop for example). Given that the attributes on the individual download are different than what is in the OSFM roster update, will the two still be able to work together?

Yes they'll work together.

In other words, will my download of Schoop and the OSFM work together? Or would I have to use the default roster with the Schoop-only download?

You can mix and match as you please

[Totte]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

And also along the same lines, if there is an OSFM roster of I specific team that I may prefer over another, can I use them both at the same time? Meaning is there a way to have one team roster download apply and the original roster apply for the other 29? I hope this all makes sense. Thanks!

Yes but you'd have to export every single player of that 30th team from one roster set and then import those players into the 30th team on your other roster set. On a side note, you can't export SCEA created players meaning if you like their ratings in an OSFM set, you'd manually have to transfers those numbers into the roster set you want to use them on

[rjackson]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

I am a big fan of the OSFM rosters and use them often, but I am curious as to why pitcher stamina is so low for many players, and really ratings are down in general. Ryun an 80? The rockies have just two SP over 70? Cueto an 84, etc.. I haven't looked through the entire thread and don't have time to, but I am curious to the reasoning. I love the inclusion of full minor leagues, but the odd ratings are taking a bit away from the accuracy for me.

This is because of how the game weights certain skills for certain positions. For instance, a LF should be a better hitter than a defender, CF should run fast and cover ground, and RF should have an arm and power. Now, edit Bret Gardner's primary position from LF to CF and see his overall jump...then move him to RF and watch it drop again. This doesn't mean Gardner got any worse as a player, he still has desirable skills and the individual ratings of those skills are more accurate than an OVR rating.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

Ryun an 80? The rockies have just two SP over 70? Cueto an 84, etc..I haven't looked through the entire thread and don't have time to, but I am curious to the reasoning. I love the inclusion of full minor leagues, but the odd ratings are taking a bit away from the accuracy for me.

The issue you are having is that you are bringing your preconceptions to the party. If you are hyper focused on OVR, this may not be the roster for you. If you can change your preconceptions (that Cueto must be a 90+ OVR or whatever), then you can enjoy it. OVR doesn't mean a whole lot and if you pay attention to it, I'd recommend you look at it in a relative way. What I mean by that is don't compare Cueto as an 84 OVR to some absolute preconception of what you think the rating should be, but compare his OVR to others at his position to get an idea of how we value him among his peers.

I am curious as to why pitcher stamina is so low for many players

Do you find stamina low in the sense that you are not able to pitch as deep into games as you'd like? Or do you find it low from a just looking at the stamina ratings standpoint? I'd argue that the second position contains no validity. I have had no problems pitching up to and over 100 pitches per start with several pitchers. I've pitched over 120 and even over 130 pitches with top pitchers on multiple occasions--you won't find pitchers going past that in today's game. I can also go multiple innings with relievers when I want to. I just completed a 162 game season, so I've gathered lots of data on this subject.

[jej]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

The issue you are having is that you are bringing your preconceptions to the party. If you are hyper focused on OVR, this may not be the roster for you. If you can change your preconceptions (that Cueto must be a 90+ OVR or whatever), then you can enjoy it. OVR doesn't mean a whole lot and if you pay attention to it, I'd recommend you look at it in a relative way. What I mean by that is don't compare Cueto as an 84 OVR to some absolute preconception of what you think the rating should be, but compare his OVR to others at his position to get an idea of how we value him among his peers.



Do you find stamina low in the sense that you are not able to pitch as deep into games as you'd like? Or do you find it low from a just looking at the stamina ratings standpoint? I'd argue that the second position contains no validity. I have had no problems pitching up to and over 100 pitches per start with several pitchers. I've pitched over 120 and even over 130 pitches with top pitchers on multiple occasions--you won't find pitchers going past that in today's game. I can also go multiple innings with relievers when I want to. I just completed a 162 game season, so I've gathered lots of data on this subject.

Why are they down across the board though? Where do the ratings come from? Phil Hughes is a 79 after being one of the best pitchers in the league. Yordano Ventura is a 75, etc.. Why knock everyone down, even if the comparisons to other players are correct?

I just don't see why even pitchers with the best stamina are at like 80-85. What is the extra 15-20 points reserved for? And where does it come from? Samardzija has gone over 200 innings two straight years. 74 stamina. Strikes out 8-9 batters a game, just a 61 K/9.

I'm just curious where these ratings come from, and what is the reasoning behind knocking guys down so much? To me, a 3 ERA and 3.20 FIP pitcher with over 200 innings would be more than an 80 (Samardzija).

Again, I don't want to sit here and knock you guys for putting tons of work into something with no compensation. I appreciate all that. I am just a bit confused as to the ratings.

[takemejoehome]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

Forget about Overall stats.. I really wish that didn't exist at all that stat. Hell you could make a pitcher overall 99 if you wanted to by having all his batting stats to 99 and pitching stats to 0.

I have been using these rosters in a random post season playing every game (keeping me going till April) and am loving it, you have made the re ratings really good stikeout guys like Hamilton strike out more and harder to time, but if you do it's out of the park. Fowler is missing from the cubs but I'm guessing you just missed that transaction with the roster I downloaded.

I actually had a game where I hit Kewshaw for 5 runs as the cardinals in the first innings (gran slam by Reynoulds then Molina home run) sounds like Kewshaw choking in post season doesn't it? lol


As for the Stamina I think you got it perfect I have the slider on Start Stam on 4, and Relief on 3, I found Weaver had just ran out of Stamina when he got to about 103 pitches (angles choked a 3-0 in that game when he came off btw) so I think if anyone has problems with the Stamina just put the slider up 1 notch. that should get you to 120 pitches max for all the workhorse pitchers

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

Why are they down across the board though? Where do the ratings come from? Phil Hughes is a 79 after being one of the best pitchers in the league. Yordano Ventura is a 75, etc.. Why knock everyone down, even if the comparisons to other players are correct?

I just don't see why even pitchers with the best stamina are at like 80-85. What is the extra 15-20 points reserved for? And where does it come from? Samardzija has gone over 200 innings two straight years. 74 stamina. Strikes out 8-9 batters a game, just a 61 K/9.

I'm just curious where these ratings come from, and what is the reasoning behind knocking guys down so much? To me, a 3 ERA and 3.20 FIP pitcher with over 200 innings would be more than an 80 (Samardzija).

Again, I don't want to sit here and knock you guys for putting tons of work into something with no compensation. I appreciate all that. I am just a bit confused as to the ratings.

Those are fair points, so let me try to address them.

1. 200 innings actually isn't all that high (and remember Jeff Samardzija started as a reliever!). The real workhorse pitchers (and there aren't a ton of them...guys like Felix) regularly get up to 230-240 IP. 200 IP is the magic number because SPs have been "wussified" by pitch counts even though it's not really a tremendous feat of stamina.

2. What are the stamina ratings above 85 reserved for? Well, for one there's progression. If you start the young pitchers out higher, they may all end up 99 stamina. Also, what if you draft a guy who's the 2nd coming of Nolan Ryan? How will he be unique? You also have to realize that the number has no value of itself. Who cares if it's 600 or 2? It's just that we're so trained to use a 1-100 scale with there needing to be 90+ ratings. Part of that fixation is due to grades in school that acclimate us to that. However, I look at the numbers as a tool to make sure pitchers pitch as deep as they should in USER games. I don't want a guy to be at 140 pitches and still have 1/3 of his stamina left. Guys are completely gassed usually by 120-130 pitches with their training regimens what they are these days.

3. The ratings were developed to correspond directly to stats. It's not random. The stamina come from a 3-year average of IP/start stats for the pitchers that have been in the league 3 years (or whatever data was available for less tenured players). I see the stamina attribute as corresponding to how deep into games a pitcher will get. IP/start isn't a perfect stat to model stamina after, but it's better than pitch counts and most other stats. It's also readily available. So, there's your reasoning for how the stamina numbers came to be.

4. The K/9 ratings come from his strikeout rate and using Knight's rating spreadsheets. Some adjustments have been made, but all the attributes are pretty much based on OSFM methods.

Forget about Overall stats.. I really wish that didn't exist at all that stat. Hell you could make a pitcher overall 99 if you wanted to by having all his batting stats to 99 and pitching stats to 0.

I have been using these rosters in a random post season playing every game (keeping me going till April) and am loving it, you have made the re ratings really good stikeout guys like Hamilton strike out more and harder to time, but if you do it's out of the park. Fowler is missing from the cubs but I'm guessing you just missed that transaction with the roster I downloaded.

I actually had a game where I hit Kewshaw for 5 runs as the cardinals in the first innings (gran slam by Reynoulds then Molina home run) sounds like Kewshaw choking in post season doesn't it? lol


As for the Stamina I think you got it perfect I have the slider on Start Stam on 4, and Relief on 3, I found Weaver had just ran out of Stamina when he got to about 103 pitches (angles choked a 3-0 in that game when he came off btw) so I think if anyone has problems with the Stamina just put the slider up 1 notch. that should get you to 120 pitches max for all the workhorse pitchers

I think the Fowler deal happened right after teeds uploaded the newest roster. Otherwise, it looked fine to me.

[teeds]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

The Fowler deal went down about a hour or two after I uploaded the latest roster a couple weeks ago.

As for ratings, much of what we do/did is based off player projections/current performance (last season it was zips and oliver) and run through knight osfm ratings charts. I've created a google sheet with all of knights ratings charts located in tabs and also waittillnextyear's revised pitcher stamina and /9 ratings chart. I'll probably share the link at some point.

Additionally, I've been going through prospect fielding and speed ratings based off of kiley mcdaniel's excellent organizational breakdowns on fangraphs. I plan on releasing this also so we have a better, more accurate base for prospect ratings.

[jej]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

Those are fair points, so let me try to address them.

1. 200 innings actually isn't all that high (and remember Jeff Samardzija started as a reliever!). The real workhorse pitchers (and there aren't a ton of them...guys like Felix) regularly get up to 230-240 IP. 200 IP is the magic number because SPs have been "wussified" by pitch counts even though it's not really a tremendous feat of stamina.

2. What are the stamina ratings above 85 reserved for? Well, for one there's progression. If you start the young pitchers out higher, they may all end up 99 stamina. Also, what if you draft a guy who's the 2nd coming of Nolan Ryan? How will he be unique? You also have to realize that the number has no value of itself. Who cares if it's 600 or 2? It's just that we're so trained to use a 1-100 scale with there needing to be 90+ ratings. Part of that fixation is due to grades in school that acclimate us to that. However, I look at the numbers as a tool to make sure pitchers pitch as deep as they should in USER games. I don't want a guy to be at 140 pitches and still have 1/3 of his stamina left. Guys are completely gassed usually by 120-130 pitches with their training regimens what they are these days.

3. The ratings were developed to correspond directly to stats. It's not random. The stamina come from a 3-year average of IP/start stats for the pitchers that have been in the league 3 years (or whatever data was available for less tenured players). I see the stamina attribute as corresponding to how deep into games a pitcher will get. IP/start isn't a perfect stat to model stamina after, but it's better than pitch counts and most other stats. It's also readily available. So, there's your reasoning for how the stamina numbers came to be.

4. The K/9 ratings come from his strikeout rate and using Knight's rating spreadsheets. Some adjustments have been made, but all the attributes are pretty much based on OSFM methods.



I think the Fowler deal happened right after teeds uploaded the newest roster. Otherwise, it looked fine to me.

Thanks very much for the explanation. Makes sense.

And again, I don't mean to sound like I am bagging on you guys. You do great work, I was just curious and there were (still are to a degree) questions about some of the ratings.

Thanks!

[HopiDesertPriest]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

James Shields is rated waayyyy to low.

[acdegnats]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

I love the idea of this roster, however after experimenting with it a little I have one problem that I ran into. How do you deal with the offseason? It seems with every ones ratings lowered the amount each player expects is also lowered and that is creating issues. Teams are able to hold onto their stars way to easily and there is no need to budget that much because players are expecting less.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

I love the idea of this roster, however after experimenting with it a little I have one problem that I ran into. How do you deal with the offseason? It seems with every ones ratings lowered the amount each player expects is also lowered and that is creating issues. Teams are able to hold onto their stars way to easily and there is no need to budget that much because players are expecting less.

Well, all I can say is that the offseason logic is somewhat broken anyway. Too many studs in the Rule 5 draft for one. This roster doesn't claim to cure all that ails the roster management AI. The focus is more on making it so the players are rated crisp and clean and play like they should. It'll be interesting to see how editable contracts (since the contracts across the board are too low to begin with in '14) and owner personalities change this dynamic. Perhaps the "upgraded" trade AI will cause the cpu to let go of their high priced players more readily.

[iTzTHURDYbOy]

Re: 2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

Hey guys,

Does anybody know if the SookieBunny 2015 rosters include SeanJeezy's pitch edits? Or does he derive it from Knights rosters? Or these Hybrid rosters? Or just the SCEA rosters and edits them? I would ask the SookieBunny itself, but I don't know how or who it really is.

If anybody could help answer this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone and have a great night!

-Ryan