OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

By using the WIP roster and the players in it, the info is very accurate. These CAPs have been vetted several times and should not be an issue, but you will want to add +1 to their ages from the WIP roster before sending your team osfm set to Willard.

But, let me just stress that it's really important to double check the vitals for any new CAPs being added. Last year before the Hybrid roster was released, we corrected reams and reams and reams of errors from OSFM v2 (our google doc for just typographical error fixes was literally 10 pages long). For example, not to pick on anyone, but Jorge Soler was listed as 25 years old instead of 22 (which he was at the time). There were hundreds of errors like this spread among all teams.

Please make an effort to ensure that you have the correct spelling of names, the proper ht/wt (preferably from Baseball Reference), the correct positions, throwing handedness, and batting handedness. Errors are inevitable in a project this large, but a little more attention to detail will go a long way toward making sure the set is accurate.

As for less important things, most people don't want players to have audio names that aren't spot on. So "Broxton" for Byron Buxton's audio last name is frowned upon.

EDIT: And as for doing the age of new CAPs, the idea is to use 6/30 as the cutoff date. So if a guy turns 24 this year and his birthday is in March, he'd be 24 in the set. If a guy turns 24 this year and his birthday is in October, then he should be 23 in the set.

[tree3five]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

I would like to echo WTNY's thoughts. I'm working on getting all the info/ratings into '14 right now and should be done tomorrow or Tuesday. However, I then have another guy working on equipment beginning Tuesday, and a third guy working on stances beginning Tuesday. Plus, I'm hoping to find another guy who can do the faces for the guys who aren't in '15.

That's just a lot of moving parts to coordinate over the course of just a few days. Not to mention that they've tweaked the progression system, so I need to run some sims to double check the ratings/potentials. Also, I believe they changed how they calculate OVR, so someone with a 75 POT in '15 will become a better player than a 75 POT in '14. I'd like to be able to make sure I'm getting the correct results before I hand it in.

Even if the deadline was just moved back three days or so until Wednesday, I would feel a lot more confident about the quality of work I'm submitting. I don't think having one week to work on it after launch is too unreasonable.

Thanks for your consideration.

I agree with this. I want to get these done ASAP, however even a day or two more would go a long way and not feel rushed.

[Willard76]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

By using the WIP roster and the players in it, the info is very accurate. These CAPs have been vetted several times and should not be an issue, but you will want to add +1 to their ages from the WIP roster before sending your team osfm set to Willard.

But, let me just stress that it's really important to double check the vitals for any new CAPs being added. Last year before the Hybrid roster was released, we corrected reams and reams and reams of errors from OSFM v2 (our google doc for just typographical error fixes was literally 10 pages long). For example, not to pick on anyone, but Jorge Soler was listed as 25 years old instead of 22 (which he was at the time). There were hundreds of errors like this spread among all teams.

Please make an effort to ensure that you have the correct spelling of names, the proper ht/wt (preferably from Baseball Reference), the correct positions, throwing handedness, and batting handedness. Errors are inevitable in a project this large, but a little more attention to detail will go a long way toward making sure the set is accurate.

As for less important things, most people don't want players to have audio names that aren't spot on. So "Broxton" for Byron Buxton's audio last name is frowned upon.

EDIT: And as for doing the age of new CAPs, the idea is to use 6/30 as the cutoff date. So if a guy turns 24 this year and his birthday is in March, he'd be 24 in the set. If a guy turns 24 this year and his birthday is in October, then he should be 23 in the set.

What he said.

[Willard76]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

I agree with this. I want to get these done ASAP, however even a day or two more would go a long way and not feel rushed.

Guys, if you are a day or 2 behind send myself or Ridin a PM. We all have lives. The point is we will not be chasing guys around for rosters this year. Aim for the cutoff, if u don't get there Sunday morning send a PM. A handful of teams won't kill us after Sunday. 20 teams will.

[seanjeezy]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

We need to get on the same page here. We ran our tests for 600 PA's. Why 650?

Its what the game and Knight's original charts are set at. I've also confirmed it with Nomo who confirmed it with one of the devs IIRC (I'd have to check my inbox but its definitely 650 PA's).

And for determining the age of players, the cutoff date is the day rosters are locked, which is March 1.

[teeds]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Its what the game and Knight's original charts are set at. I've also confirmed it with Nomo who confirmed it with one of the devs IIRC (I'd have to check my inbox but its definitely 650 PA's).

And for determining the age of players, the cutoff date is the day rosters are locked, which is March 1.

Yes, but the sim stats no longer jive with the ratings charts as we've come to find out.

Have you checked the zips updates for the Mariners on the spreadsheet? I'm interested in knowing how our ratings might differ.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Its what the game and Knight's original charts are set at. I've also confirmed it with Nomo who confirmed it with one of the devs IIRC (I'd have to check my inbox but its definitely 650 PA's).

Or you could just use the spreadsheet for ratings as we are tying to encourage people to do. If you feel that any of the ratings for the Mariners are inaccurate, we'd love to hear about it.

And for determining the age of players, the cutoff date is the day rosters are locked, which is March 1.

This is incorrect. If you notice when the players age, they all age right as you click on "advance to offseason" which is the end of October/beginning of November. It's important to use 1 cutoff date for everyone. It would make the most sense to use Oct 31 as the cutoff date. We had been using 6/30 in the past.

Responses in bold.

[sink4ever]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Guys, if you are a day or 2 behind send myself or Ridin a PM. We all have lives. The point is we will not be chasing guys around for rosters this year. Aim for the cutoff, if u don't get there Sunday morning send a PM. A handful of teams won't kill us after Sunday. 20 teams will.

Sure, that sounds good. It's not like we're not going to try to get them done as quickly as possible anyway, I just want to make sure we give you best roster possible.

[seanjeezy]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Yes, but the sim stats no longer jive with the ratings charts as we've come to find out.

Have you checked the zips updates for the Mariners on the spreadsheet? I'm interested in knowing how our ratings might differ.

Well the fact that you guys were using 600 PA's skews things a little, that's potentially 2-3 less HR's. Its also less K's and BB's, so for example Adam Jones gets a +6 boost to vision over last year's stock ratings, despite being projected nearly identical K%. Also, the only ratings spreadsheet I have seen is the one with the updated pitching ratings, so I can't really compare the hitters ratings on the hybrid spreadsheet, unless the hitter ratings haven't changed.

Isn't the initial set using the default out of the box ratings for MLB players? I still don't know why you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to ratings, wouldn't it be better to keep things as close to default as possible? In the long run isn't it better to find out why the default ratings are what they are instead of coming up with something completely different?

Also, I'm still not even 100% sure of your methodology, were all of the changes arbitrarily made based on sim stats? What happens when the league is heavily populated with drafted players who don't adhere to your ratings scale? What about actual games?

I guess its too late now, but I'll be sticking to V1 so I don't really mind all that much. I have the utmost respect for what you and Willard are doing since you guys have been super accepting of new ideas and suggestions. This is my fourth go with the OSFM team so I thought I would have more clout around here, but if I'm told one more time by a certain cubs fan to check my facts then this might be my last. Seriously dude, you're starting to piss me off.

Responses in bold.

The Mariners ratings have nothing to do with this, but thanks for your concern.

Re: the cutoff date, trust me dude, its March 1. Dustin Ackley's birthday is Feb 26, he was 26 in MLB 14. Bud Norris' birthday is Mar 2, he was 28 in MLB 14 despite being 29 for the whole season. Ergo, Feb 28/March 1 cutoff date.

[Willard76]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

I think Seanjeezy is correct on the cutoff date for age.

I will say I find the ratings WTNY has come up with do play slightly better in games than what we have done in the past which was 650 - I have tested them out myself. We aren't trying to reinvent the wheel. We came up with a system that would create cohesiveness and continuity throughout the roster - something the OSFM never had really because everyone was doing their own thing, some didn't even use Knights charts.

As for the inflated draft picks, whether we do this or not they are always an issue in future seasons regardless of ratings system.

[Willard76]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Guys - just a reminder with equipment - specifically helmets - do not give dual flap unless they are switch hitters that may use a dual flap once in the bigs.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Well the fact that you guys were using 600 PA's skews things a little, that's potentially 2-3 less HR's. Its also less K's and BB's, so for example Adam Jones gets a +6 boost to vision over last year's stock ratings, despite being projected nearly identical K%. Also, the only ratings spreadsheet I have seen is the one with the updated pitching ratings, so I can't really compare the hitters ratings on the hybrid spreadsheet, unless the hitter ratings haven't changed.

Since the ratings system was changed to be based on % (and to avoid precisely these confusing situations where people are using different measures of playing time), the number of plate appearances doesn't matter...Ratings in the spreadsheet are based on percentages (rates) not on absolute amounts of PAs, HRs, SBs, etc. The ratings chart was updated after last year because it was overproducing strikeouts, underproducing walks etc..The 6 point boost that you mentioned is a result of updating the scales to the current reality of the game. In other words the conversion from K% to VIS wasn't as accurate last year as it is now. We had to fix it. We are also using ZiPS ratings--Adam Jones' 2015 ZiPS projection for K% isn't the same as it was last year so we wouldn't expect his VIS to be exactly the same.

The spreadsheet has been posted multiple times throughout multiple threads. Teeds posted it in this same thread earlier today. Willard put it in the OP of his previous thread. It's been made available for people to look at if they want to do so. Not being sarcastic here despite how you may feel about it, but we would like for you (and others) to provide feedback. We just want everyone to be using the same playbook and not doing their own thing off in la la land whereas 28 teams, or whatever, do it a standard way.

Isn't the initial set using the default out of the box ratings for MLB players? I still don't know why you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to ratings, wouldn't it be better to keep things as close to default as possible? In the long run isn't it better to find out why the default ratings are what they are instead of coming up with something completely different?

Yes, the initial OSFM set will have default ratings. But the entire reason that the Hybrid roster ever came about was because default SCEA ratings aren't as good as they could be. It's the same for sliders. Default is rarely ever optimal for gameplay. As a larger point, if out of the box settings for everything were best, why are any of us even here? Why do you do pitch edits? It's because there are things we can improve upon and modify.

Also, I'm still not even 100% sure of your methodology, were all of the changes arbitrarily made based on sim stats? What happens when the league is heavily populated with drafted players who don't adhere to your ratings scale? What about actual games?

Sim stats are a big component since the majority of stats in a franchise/season/rtts mode will be accrued by players/teams other than what most users control. Even though many use 30-team control, very few play all the games themselves. It's difficult to say how ratings jive with real games since sliders make a huge impact and people use different slider sets. From my own experiences, these ratings produce very accurate stats in played games--I played a whole Cubs season with them and partial seasons with the Diamondbacks and Twins. Many users are interested in league leaderboards and season stats looking reasonably accurate at the end of the season, which is what tracking sim stats and tying them to ratings does very well.

The rules don't apply to drafted players because we have no data to compare them to. Aside from that, we don't really edit those drafted players anyway. So, inflation of pitching or batting could take place over time, but it would be no different than a stock SCEA roster with stock SCEA ratings. People have seen horrors of simming several years into the future and the ERA leader having a 5+ ERA with default rosters. We won't know for sure how this works until we can test it with the new sim engine and sim several years ahead. It's likely that the drafted players will be overrated no matter what we do. More of them will have A and B POT and OSFM is trying to limit high POT; these 2 facts are obviously at odds. The only way to truly have drafted players come in and fit in is to allow POT inflation for OSFM so we have 2x or 3x as many A prospects and so forth. Most people would rather have overpowered draftees than that alternative since most never get 5-10 years into a franchise for it to really matter.

I guess its too late now, but I'll be sticking to V1 so I don't really mind all that much. I have the utmost respect for what you and Willard are doing since you guys have been super accepting of new ideas and suggestions. This is my fourth go with the OSFM team so I thought I would have more clout around here, but if I'm told one more time by a certain cubs fan to check my facts then this might be my last. Seriously dude, you're starting to piss me off.

I'm not touching this one.


The Mariners ratings have nothing to do with this, but thanks for your concern.

Re: the cutoff date, trust me dude, its March 1. Dustin Ackley's birthday is Feb 26, he was 26 in MLB 14. Bud Norris' birthday is Mar 2, he was 28 in MLB 14 despite being 29 for the whole season. Ergo, Feb 28/March 1 cutoff date.

Fair point. I should have articulated better what I meant by cutoff date. My point was that the players age 1 year in game at the end of the playoffs regardless of when rosters are originally locked. In other words, Oct 31 is the cutoff date for aging in game.

So if you stick with the March 1st cutoff date, then guys with birthdays between Mar 2nd and Oct 30th would play the entire season in the game younger than they would be in real life. There's no perfect answer. Even if an Oct 31 cutoff date were adopted, the issue would be reversed--players with Mar 2nd-Oct 30 birthdays would be playing the entire season older than they are in real life.

I think Seanjeezy is correct on the cutoff date for age.

I will say I find the ratings WTNY has come up with do play slightly better in games than what we have done in the past which was 650 - I have tested them out myself. We aren't trying to reinvent the wheel. We came up with a system that would create cohesiveness and continuity throughout the roster - something the OSFM never had really because everyone was doing their own thing, some didn't even use Knights charts.

As for the inflated draft picks, whether we do this or not they are always an issue in future seasons regardless of ratings system.

I think the main problem is that OSFM is trying its best to keep the amount of A's and B's under control, but the created draftees are assigned A and B potentials at a much higher clip unless this has been changed. As Willard alluded to, a slight tweak to ratings isn't going to stop these draftee behemoths from taking over the league 5-10 years down the road no matter if Adam Jones has a 30 VIS or a 36 VIS.

[RidinDwnKingsley]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Guys its like groundhogs day every year with this. Stop the bickering and the "i know more than this one" or the " my system is better than sceas" cmon guys its never gonna be an exact science... Everyones trying to reinvent the wheel. Knight and I have been doing these sets for years, and with pretty good success I would say, and we never tried to reinvent anything. Use the worksheets as a guide, plot your A's and B's accordingly, if they need adjusted we will do it. But please this project is not and never will be about who knows more. It is about putting together a full minors set for all to enjoy. If you wanna reinvent your ratings systems please do it after we release V1 if OSFM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[huskerfan4life]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

Right now the goal is 2 versions.

The base OSFM and the Hybrid

We understand that there will probably end up being a second of each while we wait for your great work with pitch edits.

But for users who don't want pitch edits our goal is to have the first release of each close to gold standard in my mind

can I ask what the pitch edits are?

[Willard76]

Re: OSFM & Hybrid 2015-Guidelines/Plans(Roster makers)

can I ask what the pitch edits are?

Seanjeezy creates a spreadsheet each year with up to date pitch repertoires and movement based on pitch fx