Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

[braves2011]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Finished up the American League tonight, both updating old guys and deriving ratings for guys in OSFM but not on jeezy's 14 spreadsheet.

Nice, I will input AL side first... Thanks Man!!!

[The Kid 24]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Looking very nice!

How long do you think it take to enter into Willard's roster when it's out?

Also... What do the different tabs (4S/RFB, 2S/SNK, CUT/SLD, CRV, CHG/SPL) mean?

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Looking very nice!

How long do you think it take to enter into Willard's roster when it's out?

Also... What do the different tabs (4S/RFB, 2S/SNK, CUT/SLD, CRV, CHG/SPL) mean?

Not sure how long to put it into the roster without doing a few teams to figure out the pace. Would imagine days not weeks.

Those tabs are really just for my reference as I'm rating pitch movements. They don't really play into anything else.

[huskerfan4life]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Finished up the American League tonight, both updating old guys and deriving ratings for guys in OSFM but not on jeezy's 14 spreadsheet.

I've got a question for you are these hard to put into the game, like if I were to use OSFM V1 i would just go to the pitcher and put the numbers from the sheet in the proper place or is there more to it

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

I've got a question for you are these hard to put into the game, like if I were to use OSFM V1 i would just go to the pitcher and put the numbers from the sheet in the proper place or is there more to it

No, that's about it.

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Posted this in the changeup thread but wanted to post here also for thoughts/feedback...

So I'm noticing something significant as I'm going through doing pitch edits. I don't know if it was like this in previous editions of the game.

In real life, pitchers have a pretty wide range of both vertical and horizontal movement on their respective changeups according to Brooks. It looks like SCEA used some amalgamation of their vertical and horizontal movements to come up with a single movement rating for the pitch and weighted the two axes more or less evenly. It's suboptimal, but with one number to describe two different things happening that are more or less independent of each other I can see why they did it. Their ratings aren't very consistent with pitch F/X data but when I can see how they came up with their rating it appears they're at best equally rating Hmov and Vmov (with what looks like an emphasis on Hmov).

I created a guy that throws a change, a circle change, a splitter, vulcan change, and forkball. I threw a few dozen of each pitch at 5, 50, and 95 movement rating. As far as I can tell, the movement rating almost exclusively effects the ball's vertical movement. The "run" on the pitch appears to be relatively static regardless of the movement rating.

Because SCEA's movement rating is determined by movement on both axes but then represented in the Show as movement on just the vertical axis, changes with big horizontal run end up playing as changes with big vertical drop.

A few examples:
Tyler Clippard has a solid 6.3" Hmov and a very pedestrian 9.5" Vmov on his changeup (lower is better for Vmov). Somehow this earns him a 95 movement rating on his change from SCEA and his change in the Show has the floor fall out from underneath it.

Charlie Morton has a similar 6.1" Hmov and an impressive -0.9" Vmov rated as a 50 by SCEA. So his change that drops off the table IRL is very unremarkable in the show.

James Shields has a change with 7.7 Hmov and 4.3 Vmov. Rated as an 82 by SCEA.

Cole Hamels with 9.2 Hmov and 6.2 Vmov. 91 rating. Drops off the floor.

Jered Weaver with 5.6 Hmov and 8.8 Vmov. Gets a 74 rating.

Brandon League with 5.8 Hmov and -0.3 Vmov gets a 79.

So League and Weaver have in game changes that move similarly despite the fact that League's drops 8 inches more in real life. Hamels change in game drops crazily despite a relatively modest drop in real life compared to League.

Ugh. I think I have to rerate every changeup in the game because SCEA doesn't know horizontal from vertical.

[The Kid 24]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Not sure how long to put it into the roster without doing a few teams to figure out the pace. Would imagine days not weeks.

Those tabs are really just for my reference as I'm rating pitch movements. They don't really play into anything else.

Is the info in those tabs reflected in the main sheet?

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Is the info in those tabs reflected in the main sheet?

Yes.
10char

[The Kid 24]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Yes.
10char

Awesome, great work man!

Sorry to read about the changeups tho.

[cultbuscus]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Posted this in the changeup thread but wanted to post here also for thoughts/feedback...

So I'm noticing something significant as I'm going through doing pitch edits. I don't know if it was like this in previous editions of the game.

In real life, pitchers have a pretty wide range of both vertical and horizontal movement on their respective changeups according to Brooks. It looks like SCEA used some amalgamation of their vertical and horizontal movements to come up with a single movement rating for the pitch and weighted the two axes more or less evenly. It's suboptimal, but with one number to describe two different things happening that are more or less independent of each other I can see why they did it. Their ratings aren't very consistent with pitch F/X data but when I can see how they came up with their rating it appears they're at best equally rating Hmov and Vmov (with what looks like an emphasis on Hmov).

I created a guy that throws a change, a circle change, a splitter, vulcan change, and forkball. I threw a few dozen of each pitch at 5, 50, and 95 movement rating. As far as I can tell, the movement rating almost exclusively effects the ball's vertical movement. The "run" on the pitch appears to be relatively static regardless of the movement rating.

Because SCEA's movement rating is determined by movement on both axes but then represented in the Show as movement on just the vertical axis, changes with big horizontal run end up playing as changes with big vertical drop.

A few examples:
Tyler Clippard has a solid 6.3" Hmov and a very pedestrian 9.5" Vmov on his changeup (lower is better for Vmov). Somehow this earns him a 95 movement rating on his change from SCEA and his change in the Show has the floor fall out from underneath it.

Charlie Morton has a similar 6.1" Hmov and an impressive -0.9" Vmov rated as a 50 by SCEA. So his change that drops off the table IRL is very unremarkable in the show.

James Shields has a change with 7.7 Hmov and 4.3 Vmov. Rated as an 82 by SCEA.

Cole Hamels with 9.2 Hmov and 6.2 Vmov. 91 rating. Drops off the floor.

Jered Weaver with 5.6 Hmov and 8.8 Vmov. Gets a 74 rating.

Brandon League with 5.8 Hmov and -0.3 Vmov gets a 79.

So League and Weaver have in game changes that move similarly despite the fact that League's drops 8 inches more in real life. Hamels change in game drops crazily despite a relatively modest drop in real life compared to League.

Ugh. I think I have to rerate every changeup in the game because SCEA doesn't know horizontal from vertical.

I understand the pickiness with the movement, but at this point, I think its more important go get the effect and dominance of the change-ups, rather than get the movement absolutely right, because I don't want to crush Clippard because his change-up is weaker than it should be. However, you're the one making it, so I'll leave it up to you.

Finally, I think I've decided, that unless Jeezy comes out with his by the day Willard's roster drops, we'll probably use yours for the pitch edits. I know you'll be putting some in, but I think Husker and a couple others were willing to help input the edits (me included). I'm going to start putting together a sheet to do shifts with and work on.

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

I understand the pickiness with the movement, but at this point, I think its more important go get the effect and dominance of the change-ups, rather than get the movement absolutely right, because I don't want to crush Clippard because his change-up is weaker than it should be. However, you're the one making it, so I'll leave it up to you.

Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. The way SCEA set it up there are too many changeups dropping off the table. Going too far in the other direction wouldn't really give enough credit to guys with good horizontal movement. I'll figure out a formula with a happy medium.

[cultbuscus]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. The way SCEA set it up there are too many changeups dropping off the table. Going too far in the other direction wouldn't really give enough credit to guys with good horizontal movement. I'll figure out a formula with a happy medium.

You're the one making it and know the numbers. I trust you. Btw, check out Willard's thread. I just volunteered your edits, so if you'd like to add anything to my post, you're welcome to. Rather let you speak for yourself for your edits, but I think they're coming out rather good
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-works-34.html

[itbeme23]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

This is definitely great to see. Nice work, Quest.

I'm playing my OSFM franchise while Willard finishes up with his roster, but I have to say that seeing 15-20 MPH differences between fastball/changeups is really starting to annoy me. I'm not one to strike out too much on a per game basis (I usually average ~6-7), but that big of a velocity discrepancy really throws off my timing at the plate. In my experience, even when I sit changeup, I STILL end up being early on it. Then, if the CPU follows that up with a fastball, I'm late 90% of the time. And I'm not talking a 97 MPH heater upstairs. I'm talking about a relatively "hittable" low to mid-90's fastball. It seems like this is a problem with most of the offspeed pitches in the game (as has been well-established), but the changeups are where the issue really stands out.

As a slider-maker, I really appreciate the amount of work that you (and of course, seanjeezy) have put into this. I'm anxious to get home and play some test games to see how the new ratings affect gameplay.

Now I just have to get back into slider-making mode once Willard's roster drops!!!

[QuestGAV]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

In my experience, even when I sit changeup, I STILL end up being early on it.

Yeah, that's the problem it causes for me too. We're lacking a 3rd dimension that gives real batters cues about what's coming at them. All the other pitches have a tell in the 2 dimensions we can readily perceive on a screen.

I came up with a formula for changeup break that I'm happy with. I think overall it ends up giving more variety among changeups and guys will pitch truer to life. Between the more realistic velocity differentials and having fewer changeups/splits that drop from nipples to ankles I think it will improve gameplay substantially.

Re-rated the AL East's changeup/splitters today with the new formula. Redoing the rest of the AL and getting back to cracking on the NL tomorrow.

[cultbuscus]

Re: Bastardized Pitch Edits 2015

You know, the worst part about doing these edits (as with any pitch edits) will be editing the Free Agents. That's going to royally suck.