WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

[QuestGAV]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Random question kinda, on these types of spreadsheets why do guys put the VELO avg instead of the rating # like how there are for control & movement. I feel like it'd be best to have the actual VELO rating instead of the, for example, 97.46


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The rating to get the desired velocity changes based on the pitches the guy has and the velocity of those pitches based on some arcane crazy formula only known to SCEA. You don't know the velocity rating until you actually put them into a roster.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Random question kinda, on these types of spreadsheets why do guys put the VELO avg instead of the rating # like how there are for control & movement. I feel like it'd be best to have the actual VELO rating instead of the, for example, 97.46


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The problem with that is it would be extra work that most people inputting the ratings don't need. It already took plenty of time to round up all of this data, then I need to go into the game and enter every possible number for every possible pitch and write down what rating corresponds to what velocity and re-enter that into the spreadsheet? No thanks!

Honestly, once you get going on the pitch edits, this all becomes second nature that each click of the velocity bar is 0.2 mph. It doesn't take much extra time at all to round off to the nearest 0.2 mph. 94.17 mph means go 1 click past 94 mph. It gets extremely routine after entering the first 20 pitchers or so.

Aside from that, as a baseball fan, I enjoy looking at the velocity numbers to see who's bringing the cheese and who's starting to decline. The actual velocities mean more to me than a number from 0-99 that has nothing to do with the actual pitch.

I think those reasons are why these spreadsheets have been made a certain way.

[Drillinois89]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Amazing work!!!!!

[og236]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

The problem with that is it would be extra work that most people inputting the ratings don't need. It already took plenty of time to round up all of this data, then I need to go into the game and enter every possible number for every possible pitch and write down what rating corresponds to what velocity and re-enter that into the spreadsheet? No thanks!

Honestly, once you get going on the pitch edits, this all becomes second nature that each click of the velocity bar is 0.2 mph. It doesn't take much extra time at all to round off to the nearest 0.2 mph. 94.17 mph means go 1 click past 94 mph. It gets extremely routine after entering the first 20 pitchers or so.

Aside from that, as a baseball fan, I enjoy looking at the velocity numbers to see who's bringing the cheese and who's starting to decline. The actual velocities mean more to me than a number from 0-99 that has nothing to do with the actual pitch.

I think those reasons are why these spreadsheets have been made a certain way.

Thanks for the clarification! Was always curious as to the reasoning but it all makes sense now! Great work on these btw, I'll most likely input these into my roster.

& I'm 100% with you, I'm a huge baseball fan, been playing for 15 years & counting


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[Willard76]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Hey everyone, I just entered in the entire Blue Jays staff and love the looks of it. The only difficulty I will find is in the players where info was not available, ie most minor leaguers.

This spreadsheet is amazing.

[CaseIH]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

I give you pitch edits:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

From what I gather, pitch edits has historically been seanjeezy's specialty and I was fully aware that he could pop up anytime with his own version as I was doing this work, but that didn't happen. I am also aware of a few others who have tried to go with the pitch edits from last year basically and tweak here and there especially with super slow changeups. Well, my pitch edits are different than you're used to. Let me elaborate in the FAQ below...

FAQ

Q: Why pitch edits? Are the differences even really that big compared with the SCEA roster?

A: I fully believe that the pitch edits result in a more authentic experience and it is clear that there are some major differences in repertoires/velocities/and especially control|movement ratings. Whether it's a full 1.5 mph velocity difference on a star pitcher's primary fastball or a breaking ball reclassified as something else, pitch edits make the roster more authentic.


Q: Where did these ratings come from? Where did you pull the data from?

A: Brooks Baseball. Every velocity, movement and command rating is 100% based on publicly available data on Brooks Baseball.


Q: So did you just tweak the 2014 pitch edits or are these new?

A: These are 100% brand spanking new. These data are based on the 2014 and 2015 seasons during the time frame 4/1/2014 - right before Memorial Day 2015. All the data is new.


Q: How is this different than what we're used to seeing from seanjeezy?

A: There is no difference in the velocity numbers, which come straight from Brooks. However, I attempted to not only re-rate movement according to Brooks Baseball data as seanjeezy has done previously, but this is the first time (to my knowledge) the control ratings have been re-rated as well.


Q: How did you do the control ratings? How can we know where the pitches were supposed to go?

A: We actually can't know where the pitches were supposed to go. Even watching the catcher's glove on every pitch doesn't necessarily tell us. But, what I've done is used a stat called "Ball %" which is available for each pitch type of each pitcher's repertoire on Brooks Baseball. After tabulating the Ball % for each of the 771 pitchers' repertoires in the spreadsheet, I sorted by pitch type and made comparisons among like pitches (so 4SM control is only compared to other 4-seamers and not to curveballs). Ultimately, the pitchers with the lower Ball % are getting more called strikes and more swinging strikes on well-placed pitches in and around the zone and those pitchers are thus 'controlling the zone' and got the higher control ratings.


Q: Why Ball %? Why not some other method?

A: I decided on Ball % as a measure of a pitcher's ability to control the zone. This way a pitcher gets credit for a called strike and a swinging strike on a well-placed pitch even if it's out of the zone. It penalizes pitchers who either can't locate the pitch in the strike zone to get a called strike (or get contact) or who can't get the pitch close enough to entice a swing. Normalizing by each pitch type also makes sure control of a curveball isn't being directly compared to control of a fastball (which the league throws much more frequently for strikes).


Q: How did you classify pitches?

A: It depends on the pitch. Anyone who is used to Brooks Baseball knows the peculiarities of that site as far as nearly all "2 seamers" are classified as "sinkers" and the vast majority of changeups are listed as just straight changes. I used that to start from but then re-classified some pitches to be a bit more familiar. Classification of each pitch type is spoilered below.

Spoiler

4SM - any pitch listed as fourseam on Brooks with less than 8 in of lateral movement

RFB - any pitch listed as fourseam on Brooks with more than 8 in of lateral movement

SNK - any pitch listed as a sinker on Brooks that had vertical movement greater than 5 in and lateral movement less than 9 in

2SM - any other pitch listed as a sinker that did not meet SNK criteria above

CUT - no change from Brooks' classification

SPLT - no change from Brooks' classification

SL - no change from Brooks' classification

KCV - any pitch listed as curveball on Brooks with a knuckle curve grip

12-6 - any pitch listed as curveball on Brooks with less than 4 in of lateral break and greater than 8 in of vertical break

SCV - any pitch listed as curveball on Brooks with predominantly lateral break and greater than 8 in of lateral break

CB - any pitch listed as curveball on Brooks not otherwise reclassified as KCV, 12-6, or SCV

CIR - any pitch listed as changeup on Brooks with a circle change grip or as a changeup with greater than 8 in of lateral movement

VCH - any pitch listed as changeup on Brooks with a vulcan change grip

CH - any pitch listed as changeup on Brooks without a circle/vulcan change grip AND less than 8 in of lateral movement

SLRV - no pitches were reclassified to slurve

KNUK - no change from Brooks' classification

PALM - no change from Brooks' classification

Q: How did you do movement?

A: Again, it depends on the pitch. Much like for control, the movement on a pitcher's pitch was compared to other pitches of the same type and rated accordingly. Pitches that have no discernible lateral break in the game (i.e. a 12-6 curve) were rated solely according to vertical break. Pitches that have substantial break in 2 directions (i.e. a normal curveball) were rated using both Hmov and Vmov components of their movement.


Q: My favorite pitcher is missing a pitch type...what gives?

A: This is more true for relievers, but SCEA generally has too many pitch types per pitcher. There are lots of 4- and 5-pitch relievers, which just isn't realistic, so I made an effort to reduce repertoires for some guys based on usage %. Generally, if a reliever uses a pitch well below 5% of the time, that pitch was removed to give a more realistic selection of his "go to" pitches. For starting pitchers, it really depended on the pitcher and the pitch but even pitches used as little as 2% (in some cases 1% with decent pitch volume) were retained for SPs. The repertoires are ordered from Pitch 1-5 according to usage % with a few exceptions here and there: if a pitcher throws a slider 43% of the time and a 4SM 41% of the time, I tended to put the 4SM as the primary pitch.


Q: Some of the ratings don't make any sense...why did some star pitchers get downgraded?

A: All I can say here is what we are taught to believe from watching broadcasts/a single highlight pitch and what the pitches actually do over hundreds/thousands of deliveries are not always the same thing.

Another issue is that pitches with higher velocity tend to not have as much time to move, so guys with premium velocity in some cases took an understandable hit on movement.

I have run sims and pitched manually with star pitchers like Clayton Kershaw and although the movement on his pitches was adjusted drastically down, he still feels and accumulates stats as you would expect. Even being classified as simply having a 12-6 curveball, for example, already puts that pitch amongst elite curveballs in the game.

The pitch edits make the pitch trajectory and visual aspect more accurate to real life whereas how pitchers perform is also controlled by the /9 ratings and by user skill/sliders. Agree or disagree with certain ratings, but these pitch edits are all based 100% on real, live Pitchf/x data. Even if you only take velocity and repertoires and some of the control/move ratings from the pitch edits, that's a big step up from the SCEA roster.


Q: You mentioned that some star pitchers got hit reasonably hard on their pitch ratings (movement especially)--so do stars become scrubs after entering these?

A: Nope. For example, Kershaw is still a 99 OVR even after inputting the pitch edits. His sim stats are still scary similar to projected stats, and I felt that I could strike plenty of hitters out in played games as well. While some OVRs go down 1-3 points (and a few more like 4 points), not all pitchers even decrease. David Price gets a nice ratings boost for his yeoman's work at throwing strikes.


Q: So what do you mean when adding a star * next to a player's name?

A: The * either signifies that the data could be a bit older (from 2012 or 2013) due to the pitcher not pitching at all in 2014/2015 or that the data is from Fall/Winter/Spring training instead of a regular season game (this is true for a handful of prospects).


Q: Anything else I should know?

A: The FB-CH velocity discrepancy has been naturally fixed in doing this process.



Any questions, comments, and even criticisms are more than welcome in this thread, but if you are posting about something already answered in the FAQ without reading the FAQ, I will probably ignore the post.

I just took a look at the spreadsheet and I really like how you did the spreadsheet, so you don't have to scroll to see all the pitches, they are right in front you for you to see all.


Just doing some comparing with the basterdized pitch edits and they are actually fairly close especially in movement from the few I check. I think both have been done extremely well, and imo look basically just like seanjeezy's work actually. So I think both you and Questgav did a excellent job of reading the pitchfx data, and using either of these spreadsheets will be better than what SCEA did with repertoires. Its actually sad that whoever they have do the pitch repertoires and ratings do such a bad job at this, and they would smart to hire one of you guys that do the pitch edit here.


Heck as easy as this spreadsheat is to read I might just go ahead and input them myself into v2 of Ridin's OSFM, as Im backdating it. Since Im not able to work anymore and aren't able to do much because of pain meds, I can probably get this done fairly quickly rather than waiting for someone else to do it that more than likely has a job and a life,lol.


Again great work, it amazes me each year all you guys go thru to make this great game even greater.

[grgmths1433]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

The spreadsheet is simple and easy to read. However I am confuse with inputting velocity. Example control just has two numbers but velocity has 4 numbers. Sorry if this sounds stupid.

[CaseIH]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

The spreadsheet is simple and easy to read. However I am confuse with inputting velocity. Example control just has two numbers but velocity has 4 numbers. Sorry if this sounds stupid.

That's the average velocity of each pitch.

[grgmths1433]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Can you give me example if you don't mind.

[grgmths1433]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

That's the average velocity of each pitch.

So basically you just round it up?

[CaseIH]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

So basically you just round it up?

I think every click is .2 mph, so say a pitch is 95. 24, I would set it to 95 then go up 2 clicks. That's my understanding anyway, probably be better to ask 1 of the guys that did the pitch edit spreadsheets just to be sure if your planning on entering the info yourself.

[grgmths1433]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

I think every click is .2 mph, so say a pitch is 95. 24, I would set it to 95 then go up 2 clicks. That's my understanding anyway, probably be better to ask 1 of the guys that did the pitch edit spreadsheets just to be sure if your planning on entering the info yourself.

Actually I was just gonna see the difference from stock. I gonna pick up your rosters once you are done with everything you gonna do.

[CaseIH]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Actually I was just gonna see the difference from stock. I gonna pick up your rosters once you are done with everything you gonna do.

Im actually thinking about inputting these into Ridin V2 that I plan on backdating. I was going to wait on 55, but now it sounds like he isn't sure what he wants to do, form my understanding anyway, so he might start over and input these in.
Since Im not able to do much anymore because of health, I was thinking rather than waiting on someone else, I might be better off so I can start playing to actually just input the pitch edits from this spreadsheet while backdating the roster.
Not that I really want to do it because things especially when it comes to trying to look at something then input it can get confusing to me with being drugged up on all the meds Im on. That why I was hoping V2 would be set to opening day. I know it probably sounds ridiculous that something like just reading off of a page then inputting it to the game would get anyone confused, but it don't seem to take much anymore with everything the Dr has me taking:o

[grgmths1433]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Gotcha... Are you PS3? I remember speaking to you last year on numerous occasions. Hope all is well. Wished things was like before. Don't get me wrong I appreciate these fellas hard work. Years past things was organized.

[CaseIH]

Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

Gotcha... Are you PS3? I remember speaking to you last year on numerous occasions. Hope all is well. Wished things was like before. Don't get me wrong I appreciate these fellas hard work. Years past things was organized.

Thanks, its not looking good as far as health goes, nothing seems to be working that they do to me.My wife was actually able to buy me a PS4 a few months ago. I know what you mean about wishing things were like they use to be with the OSFM versions, where they would add versions, of just equiptment, then stances and motions, followed by pitch edits, then rerates to the opening day set of these rosters. Then later someone would update all the transactions for those who preferred that.


Im thinking some of those guys got busy with life and no longer have the time to do it like it use to done. I know I remember some of the guys on here that were involved in that I don't even see here anymore, and some like TD rarely post here anymore that were involved in those different versions.


I will probably see what 55 decides on pitch edits, then I will more than likely make the decisions on going ahead and starting the backdating. If I decide not to wait for pitch edits to be implemented, I will probably backdate and set everything back 1st then add the pitches from the spreadsheet of WTNY. I know backdating and resetting rotations and lineups will take quite a bit of time to do, so I know I got to get started here soon, so I don't want to wait too long on waiting for pitch edits, when I can add them in once Im done getting the roster back to opening day.