CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

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  • PsychoBulk
    Hoping for change...
    • May 2006
    • 4191

    #1

    CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

    At last...in my opinion, this one slider that always caused so much consternation, so divided opinion, and almost univerally HAD to be reduced year on year to get realistic ratios/walk totals etc...NO MORE!

    Ive played now 17 games since getting the game (not the largest sample size granted) but ive seen enough from my collated stats to tell me this year...its different.

    Remember, CPU Strike Frequency only affects EARLY counts, NOT the whole at bat, so whats key here is basically first pitch strike numbers, percentages, basically.

    The real MLB first pitch strike percentage was 60.3% last year, in 2014.

    From my 17 games on DEFAULT CPU Strike Frequency...

    64%
    51%
    70%
    67%
    58%
    58%
    64%
    72%
    51%
    60%
    61%
    63%
    57%
    71%
    51%
    61%
    66%

    The average of those 17 games?

    61.47%

    That, fellow slider men, is, based on the history of this series with this slider...INCREDIBLE!

    Generally in years past this figure has always been around 70% or above in game, way too high, and its needed the CPU K Frequency slider clipping to 2 or 3 to correct the problem - well no more.

    Of course there will always be differences here, due to play styles/whos pitching etc, if you swing at what was going to be a ball its a strike etc, that can distort the figures, i get that, we all know that, but never, ever, in the history of this series has it been so damn good, this slider, on DEFAULT!

    Now, the reason for this thread is because ive read through all the other respected slider makers sets and, aside from one, youve all (automatically probably from years past and i dont blame you for this) clipped the CPU Strike Frequency down...im here to say i dont think you need to, in fact if you are going down to 2/3 and even 4 to a degree, you are putting the CPU at a likely disadvantage in early counts, because my stats show (and yes, 17 games, yada yada) that its not needed.

    Of course you will still get some games in the 70's and some in the low 50's etc, and you SHOULD, the 60.3 in real MLB last year is just an average, doesnt mean every game should regress to the mean, but my overall average, when i calculated it, staggered me, knowing the history of this slider, that i simply had to start this thread.

    Id like to hear other slider gurus thoughts on this, you may not be seeing it, you may, i dont know, but i can guarantee you this...this key slider is NOT working the same way it did in years gone by and there definitely needs to be adjustments made for it.

    Discuss away!
    Last edited by PsychoBulk; 04-05-2015, 03:39 PM.
  • jr86
    MVP
    • Jan 2009
    • 1728

    #2
    Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

    Yes, I tend to agree, I've been running with it at 4 with realistic results, but I don't see why it wouldn't be perfectly fine at default.
    But dropping below 4 imo is not necessary this year.

    Comment

    • bcruise
      Hall Of Fame
      • Mar 2004
      • 23274

      #3
      Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

      Great post and analysis - I'm seeing a TON of 2-0 counts this year from the more average pitchers with this slider on default, while the aces seem to get the first pitch over more frequently. It makes each game feel different (well, unless they have a bunch of scrubs in the rotation ) I've played a lot of games on All-Star and HOF hitting combined, and it definitely holds true for both of those levels.

      Couple this with my improved approach to hitting (basically I'm being VERY selective in the early counts and not swinging at anything that looks like a corner) and pitch counts in my games have gone up dramatically, bringing walks and k's with them. I've had some games where I've walked 5 or 6 times, whereas in previous years I've had to scratch and claw with the sliders to even get 2 or 3.

      Comment

      • LingeringRegime
        Hall Of Fame
        • Jun 2007
        • 17089

        #4
        Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

        Yeah, just started playing last night, but didn't see any jarring issues.

        I just take until I get a strike and was able to draw multiple walks each game I played.

        Comment

        • bcruise
          Hall Of Fame
          • Mar 2004
          • 23274

          #5
          Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

          Just had a game where I walked 7 times and struck out 7 times on All-Star Default sliders. First pitch strike % 64. Soooooo good.

          Comment

          • BrianU
            MVP
            • Nov 2008
            • 1565

            #6
            Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

            I am using nomo2k's spreadsheet he used last year to track stats of CPU vs CPU games and in the limited amount of games ive run so far CPU vs CPU All-star difficulties (16 games) I am using spot on total strike percentage and slightly low first pitch strike percentage.

            So adjusting the Strike Frequency slider ONLY affects the first pitch strikes we know for sure?

            I also should add that I am seeing the foul ball percentage spot on with that slider at default also.

            EDIT: And the best news for me at least, from my tests so far it looks like we can again use Pitch Speed 10 while at the same time keeping realistic stolen base %. Last year using Pitch Speed 10 resulted in stolen base % around 45 when in real life its around 70%.
            Last edited by BrianU; 04-05-2015, 07:05 PM.

            Comment

            • PsychoBulk
              Hoping for change...
              • May 2006
              • 4191

              #7
              Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

              Originally posted by BrianU

              So adjusting the Strike Frequency slider ONLY affects the first pitch strikes we know for sure?
              The explanation for the slider is that affects the "early count", so it could well be the second pitch as well as the first, but in terms of dictating the final outcome of an at bat, as we all know, the first pitch is the most crucial.

              Comment

              • Armor and Sword
                The Lama
                • Sep 2010
                • 21789

                #8
                Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                Nice Analysis. I would like a 30-40 game sample size before I say positively yes.
                But I have it at 4 and have been very pleased with it there. I agree anything lower is excessive on All-Star.

                Default plays really great this year. This game is always easy to fine tune to my style. It's a pleasure.
                Now Playing on PS5:
                CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                Oblivion Remaster



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                Comment

                • Heroesandvillains
                  MVP
                  • May 2009
                  • 5974

                  #9
                  Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                  Originally posted by BrianU
                  I am using nomo2k's spreadsheet he used last year to track stats of CPU vs CPU games and in the limited amount of games ive run so far CPU vs CPU All-star difficulties (16 games) I am using spot on total strike percentage and slightly low first pitch strike percentage.

                  So adjusting the Strike Frequency slider ONLY affects the first pitch strikes we know for sure?

                  I also should add that I am seeing the foul ball percentage spot on with that slider at default also.

                  EDIT: And the best news for me at least, from my tests so far it looks like we can again use Pitch Speed 10 while at the same time keeping realistic stolen base %. Last year using Pitch Speed 10 resulted in stolen base % around 45 when in real life its around 70%.
                  Are you doing Nomo's typical Default slider test this year? I'm concerned he may not do it (he pretty much said as much to a troll last year).

                  He CPU vs CPU's the first 75 games of a Franchise. Every game for every team.

                  Please say yes.

                  Comment

                  • BrianU
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 1565

                    #10
                    Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                    Originally posted by Heroesandvillains
                    Are you doing Nomo's typical Default slider test this year? I'm concerned he may not do it (he pretty much said as much to a troll last year).

                    He CPU vs CPU's the first 75 games of a Franchise. Every game for every team.

                    Please say yes.
                    I am no way as patient or dedicated as Nomo, I too pray he will cook up some good stats for us all to feast on. I am tracking CPU vs CPU games but I have the time to do about 8-10 of them each weekend so to do 75 like he does will be pretty hard. I know that sample size is really important to have. I've seen him posting around here recently and it sounds like he has the game. If he doesn't post a spreadsheet this year I will post what I have but right now with a total of 16 games I don't want to misinform or mislead people. If you want to see what I have so far you can PM me and i'll upload to Google share.

                    I did some initial testing using two aces (95+ pitchers), two above average pitchers (mid 80s), and then 4 games with average pitchers (high 70s, low 80s). Just to get a quick look at how things played out. Some of the stats such as strike frequency, stolen bases, starters IP, number of pitchers per game, and errors you don't really need a 75 game sample size so I wanted to see what slider changes would be appropriate for those areas. I have settled on doing a larger sample size test using these sliders:

                    Starter Stamina 6
                    Pitch Speed 10
                    Fielding Errors Infield 6
                    Fielding Errors Outfield 6
                    Throwing Errors Infield 4
                    Throwing Errors Outfield 5
                    Steal Frequency 4
                    Injury Frequency 8

                    I am not a slider guru so deciding what sliders to change to get the results I want if the BA or BABIP is high/low I will need some advice, but right now I am looking at how things play out with these sliders + the rest default. I am watching my 6th game as I speak.

                    Comment

                    • Smallville102001
                      All Star
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 6542

                      #11
                      Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                      Originally posted by PsychoBulk
                      At last...in my opinion, this one slider that always caused so much consternation, so divided opinion, and almost univerally HAD to be reduced year on year to get realistic ratios/walk totals etc...NO MORE!

                      Ive played now 17 games since getting the game (not the largest sample size granted) but ive seen enough from my collated stats to tell me this year...its different.

                      Remember, CPU Strike Frequency only affects EARLY counts, NOT the whole at bat, so whats key here is basically first pitch strike numbers, percentages, basically.

                      The real MLB first pitch strike percentage was 60.3% last year, in 2014.

                      From my 17 games on DEFAULT CPU Strike Frequency...

                      64%
                      51%
                      70%
                      67%
                      58%
                      58%
                      64%
                      72%
                      51%
                      60%
                      61%
                      63%
                      57%
                      71%
                      51%
                      61%
                      66%

                      The average of those 17 games?

                      61.47%

                      That, fellow slider men, is, based on the history of this series with this slider...INCREDIBLE!

                      Generally in years past this figure has always been around 70% or above in game, way too high, and its needed the CPU K Frequency slider clipping to 2 or 3 to correct the problem - well no more.

                      Of course there will always be differences here, due to play styles/whos pitching etc, if you swing at what was going to be a ball its a strike etc, that can distort the figures, i get that, we all know that, but never, ever, in the history of this series has it been so damn good, this slider, on DEFAULT!

                      Now, the reason for this thread is because ive read through all the other respected slider makers sets and, aside from one, youve all (automatically probably from years past and i dont blame you for this) clipped the CPU Strike Frequency down...im here to say i dont think you need to, in fact if you are going down to 2/3 and even 4 to a degree, you are putting the CPU at a likely disadvantage in early counts, because my stats show (and yes, 17 games, yada yada) that its not needed.

                      Of course you will still get some games in the 70's and some in the low 50's etc, and you SHOULD, the 60.3 in real MLB last year is just an average, doesnt mean every game should regress to the mean, but my overall average, when i calculated it, staggered me, knowing the history of this slider, that i simply had to start this thread.

                      Id like to hear other slider gurus thoughts on this, you may not be seeing it, you may, i dont know, but i can guarantee you this...this key slider is NOT working the same way it did in years gone by and there definitely needs to be adjustments made for it.

                      Discuss away!


                      Interesting to hear about this. Yeah in the past I would have things like CPU strike frequency and pitch control at like 3 or so and even then it was hard at times to draw walks. This year So far on DD I am already seeing better over all strike % and more walks at default then the past and I am only at like Rookie + on hitting so far. In the past it was like impossible to draw walks in less you where playing at least on all star. So if I am already seeing some walks at rookie+ it can only get better has I go up.

                      Comment

                      • KingV2k3
                        Senior Circuit
                        • May 2003
                        • 5881

                        #12
                        Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                        GREAT info, as always, PsychoBulk!

                        I'm assuming you ran the test on All Star, correct?

                        My concern has always been they way the AI pounds the zone on the Veteran level, which became the limit of my limited ability a few seasons back...



                        Any thoughts?

                        Comment

                        • Smallville102001
                          All Star
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 6542

                          #13
                          Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                          Originally posted by KingV2k3
                          GREAT info, as always, PsychoBulk!

                          I'm assuming you ran the test on All Star, correct?

                          My concern has always been they way the AI pounds the zone on the Veteran level, which became the limit of my limited ability a few seasons back...



                          Any thoughts?


                          Yeah I hear you about veteran level. In a lot of mlb the show games I have found all star hitting to hard but if I play on veteran its almost impossible to draw walks because of the pounding of the strike zone. Like I said I am already seen better default strikes and walks with DD at only rookie though so it can only get better when I get DD up to around all star.

                          Comment

                          • Armor and Sword
                            The Lama
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 21789

                            #14
                            Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                            Originally posted by KingV2k3
                            GREAT info, as always, PsychoBulk!

                            I'm assuming you ran the test on All Star, correct?

                            My concern has always been they way the AI pounds the zone on the Veteran level, which became the limit of my limited ability a few seasons back...



                            Any thoughts?
                            Check out my hybrid slider set for veteran hitting and all-star pitching. IMO you will draw plenty of walks and not see the pitchers pound the zone.

                            It really is a great set and many people use the hybrid set who can't hit on All-Star. Also quick counts will help you draw walks if you like that feature.
                            Now Playing on PS5:
                            CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                            MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                            MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                            Oblivion Remaster



                            Follow me on Twitch
                            https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                            Comment

                            • KingV2k3
                              Senior Circuit
                              • May 2003
                              • 5881

                              #15
                              Re: CPU Strike Frequency - Leave It Alone (Discussion)

                              Originally posted by Smallville102001
                              Yeah I hear you about veteran level. In a lot of mlb the show games I have found all star hitting to hard but if I play on veteran its almost impossible to draw walks because of the pounding of the strike zone. Like I said I am already seen better default strikes and walks with DD at only rookie though so it can only get better when I get DD up to around all star.
                              I agree, but I also contend that the AI seems to approach DD differently than playing "straight" veteran (or rookie) levels...at least in the large sample I had going last year it did...

                              Originally posted by Armor & Sword
                              Check out my hybrid slider set for veteran hitting and all-star pitching. IMO you will draw plenty of walks and not see the pitchers pound the zone.

                              It really is a great set and many people use the hybrid set who can't hit on All-Star. Also quick counts will help you draw walks if you like that feature.
                              VERY familiar with your sets over the years, Sir!

                              Quality work, indeed...

                              That being said, I'm hoping someone may have a stat based breakdown on that level, like PsychoBulk did for what I'm guessing, is the All Star level...

                              It's kind of a moot point, because I will prob end up using QC again this year, but strike percentages and how they vary from level to level, is an annual point of interest for my slider based OCD...

                              Comment

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