Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Sliders

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  • JoshC1977
    All Star
    • Dec 2010
    • 11564

    #2071
    Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

    This is going to sound completely non-scientific; but my thought on classic pitching is simple....it is all about feel.

    In my experience, the first couple of innings are the most difficult. I have to gauge which pitches are 'working' that day and to what extent I need to hold down the button to get the release point desired for certain types of pitches (i.e. for different types of breaks, elevating pitches, getting them in the dirt, etc.). I have no idea what underpinning factors go into the programming and what causes this variance, and frankly, I just don't think about it. To me, this mimics just how tricky it is for real life pitchers to maintain their mechanics throughout the grind of the season.

    So, you can handle this a couple of ways.

    1. Standardize the duration of your button press and let the game programming be the sole contributor to the variance.
    2. Vary the button press duration and try to get the optimal "feel" for each pitch in each outing. I prefer this because it is far more immersive and cerebral as I am constantly trying to gain that "feel" each game....and yes, sometimes mistake pitches get thrown and sometimes those mistakes are punished. But, when I have my "mechanics" down, it is quite rewarding to K a batter on a perfectly placed pitch. Yeah, there is still randomness to it, but that too is part of the fun....

    I am a very analytical person and as much as I like to try to 'figure things out' in terms of game mechanics; I've accepted that this is one of those features where the 'mystery' of how it works is part of why you get so sucked into it.
    Play the games you love, not the games you want to love.

    Comment

    • The Chef
      Moderator
      • Sep 2003
      • 13684

      #2072
      Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

      Not gonna beat a dead horse here so I'll make this my last post on the topic and move on. I played another game just tapping the button to see if Texas would pose more of a threat then the Mets did. Texas is actually ranked lower then NY in team batting average so I wasn't sure if it would just be more of the same or not. I had Sonny Gray on the mound and lost 6-3. Texas went 8/32 at the plate which is right in line with their horrible team batting average but they did have a pair of doubles and Mazara, their best all around hitter against RHP who has 80+ contact, drove in 2 of their 6 runs going 3/4. It felt like they were more potent then the Mets were and it seemed to play more true to the lineup I was facing. I still have serious doubts that there is a difference between tapping and holding for more effort however. When tapping guys still miss spots, guys still gain an extra tick or two on their fastball at random moments, sliders seem to bite the same, curve's break the same so unless it's just something programmed into the game for the CPU to see it differently when putting more effort into it I just have a hard time believing there is much of a difference between max effort and minimum effort.

      I almost feel like tapping the button levels everyone out more to their ratings, maybe it's completely placebo effect, it will wear off, and everything that is currently happening is just coinciding with my pitching being "hot" to a degree but I see no major difference in terms of location of pitches relative to the target but I see the CPU offense playing more true to their ratings instead of guys ripping the ball everywhere with subpar ratings as was happening before when I was trying to balance half effort vs max effort. About the only negative I can find in tapping the button is strikeouts seem a bit tougher to come by (only struck out 4 this game) but other then that I'm not really seeing a glaring negative. I really feel like they tweaked classic pitching this year or something as last year if I went with minimal effort every pitch I got shelled more often then not, this year so far it's been the opposite.

      Like I said I won't bog down this thread anymore with the whole debate over classic.
      http://www.twitch.tv/kitm9891

      Comment

      • Yankeefan1991
        Rookie
        • May 2017
        • 83

        #2073
        Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

        My Opinion on the release point is like some others here ... For some Pitcher it is almost impossible to reach his release point because he throws it just before you reach it. And my Pitching was horrible also i hit the release point perfectly. the balls were flying around the plate and not near the point i want to have it. I found out that it works best for all pitcher to release the button when their knee is on the highest point before throwing. I know that for some pitchers it is way to late or early but i made the best experiences in training with that.

        Comment

        • No.27
          Pro
          • Dec 2015
          • 543

          #2074
          Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

          Ok I promise this will be my last post on the subject as well but have been doing some digging and found something interesting under user settings where you toggle the pitch feedback on/off it states "This option has no affect when using the Classic Pitching interface". So even though you get the early/good/late feedback it means nothing! So that's my theory out the window. I went back to pitching practice and did some more extensive testing the only really consistent thing I found is fastballs are spotted really well with a quick press and offspeed may be better with a full vibration press. Which is something I think has been known on OS for years. A lot depends on where you are aiming the pitch and Josh might be right that you have to "feel" it in the game. I'd also like to quickly thank Armor for allowing his "slider" thread to wander into all sorts of gameplay aspects. The discussion has been great this year and I've learnt more about the game than ever.

          Comment

          • forme95
            MVP
            • Nov 2013
            • 3118

            #2075
            Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

            I again have to agree with Josh and No27. Classic pitching, like real pitching, and as Armor has said in his streams, its about feel. Like Josh, it takes a inning or two to get the feel of what pitches are doing what, and what is a good release that day for that pitch. I'm sure real pitchers hit the mound with the same thoughts. Only difference is, they warm up first and have a way to get that feel before first pitch, whereas we have to start the game with no knowledge basically of how our pitcher will act that day. Go by feel, play ball, K.I.S.S., and have fun. Also, yes, thank you Armor for letting us stray a bit from the thread. I could only imagine this same talk happening out in the main thread lol.
            Last edited by forme95; 06-14-2017, 07:17 AM.
            Really wish sports games played to ratings!
            Only thing SIM about sports games now, are the team name and players
            CFB 25 The absolute GOAT!!!
            MLB 23 FOREVER 20 is better, 23 just for Guardians
            Madden get rid of the extras (SS/XF, HFA, media, scenarios, game plan) or turn them down considerably.

            Comment

            • kpeercy
              MVP
              • Jul 2002
              • 1039

              #2076
              Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

              Do you guys get any walks with strike frequency at 4??? I rarely even get to 3 ball counts. When I do, a strike on the next pitch is a guarantee.

              Comment

              • The Chef
                Moderator
                • Sep 2003
                • 13684

                #2077
                Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                Originally posted by kpeercy
                Do you guys get any walks with strike frequency at 4??? I rarely even get to 3 ball counts. When I do, a strike on the next pitch is a guarantee.
                I get walks, I average just a shade over 3 per game with some games more and some less and I have strike frequency at 5 so walks are definitely there.

                Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
                http://www.twitch.tv/kitm9891

                Comment

                • BleacherCreature
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 3160

                  #2078
                  Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                  Originally posted by forme95
                  I again have to agree with Josh and No27. Classic pitching, like real pitching, and as Armor has said in his streams, its about feel. Like Josh, it takes a inning or two to get the feel of what pitches are doing what, and what is a good release that day for that pitch. I'm sure real pitchers hit the mound with the same thoughts. Only difference is, they warm up first and have a way to get that feel before first pitch, whereas we have to start the game with no knowledge basically of how our pitcher will act that day. Go by feel, play ball, K.I.S.S., and have fun. Also, yes, thank you Armor for letting us stray a bit from the thread. I could only imagine this same talk happening out in the main thread lol.


                  The game should allow starting pitchers to throw warmup pitches just like the relievers can. Those 8 pitches will tell you a lot about how certain pitches are moving or what type of control he has that game. I tend to struggle in the first inning because of not knowing how my pitcher's stuff is.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

                  Comment

                  • Armor and Sword
                    The Lama
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 21790

                    #2079
                    Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                    Originally posted by BleacherCreature
                    The game should allow starting pitchers to throw warmup pitches just like the relievers can. Those 8 pitches will tell you a lot about how certain pitches are moving or what type of control he has that game. I tend to struggle in the first inning because of not knowing how my pitcher's stuff is.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports


                    It used to. They took out that feature on the move to PS4

                    Would love to have it back.


                    Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports
                    Now Playing on PS5:
                    CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                    MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                    MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                    Oblivion Remaster



                    Follow me on Twitch
                    https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                    Comment

                    • TheWarmWind
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 2620

                      #2080
                      Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                      Hey Armor I hope this hasn't been asked before but I was hoping to pick your brain about the foul frequency slider.

                      I was wondering if lowering it increases swings and misses (which is what I suspect it does) or just pulls balls more towards being fair (which is how it's described in game). I know how the in-game descriptions can be inaccurate so I was wondering on what your opinion was before I started fiddling with it.

                      Comment

                      • The Chef
                        Moderator
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 13684

                        #2081
                        Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                        Gonna stream the second game of my series at Texas for anyone interested and/or bored enough to watch lol.
                        http://www.twitch.tv/kitm9891

                        Comment

                        • ruxpinke
                          Pro
                          • Apr 2008
                          • 908

                          #2082
                          Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                          Originally posted by TheWarmWind
                          Hey Armor I hope this hasn't been asked before but I was hoping to pick your brain about the foul frequency slider.

                          I was wondering if lowering it increases swings and misses (which is what I suspect it does) or just pulls balls more towards being fair (which is how it's described in game). I know how the in-game descriptions can be inaccurate so I was wondering on what your opinion was before I started fiddling with it.
                          My sense is that it increases swings and misses on borderline black/ out of zone pitches, making it harder to foul them off. As far as pulling balls fair, by the amount of screamers i hit just foul makes me think it doesnt affect that as much.
                          PSN: PrettyToney

                          Comment

                          • Armor and Sword
                            The Lama
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 21790

                            #2083
                            Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                            Originally posted by TheWarmWind
                            Hey Armor I hope this hasn't been asked before but I was hoping to pick your brain about the foul frequency slider.



                            I was wondering if lowering it increases swings and misses (which is what I suspect it does) or just pulls balls more towards being fair (which is how it's described in game). I know how the in-game descriptions can be inaccurate so I was wondering on what your opinion was before I started fiddling with it.


                            For sure in my experience with the game it strictly affects swings and misses.


                            Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports
                            Now Playing on PS5:
                            CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                            MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                            MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                            Oblivion Remaster



                            Follow me on Twitch
                            https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                            Comment

                            • TheWarmWind
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 2620

                              #2084
                              Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                              Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                              For sure in my experience with the game it strictly affects swings and misses.
                              Awesome thank you!

                              Comment

                              • The Chef
                                Moderator
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 13684

                                #2085
                                Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 17 Timed/Classic Simulation All-Star Slider

                                Yikes, just finished my game at Texas and it was one of those games where I knew I was gonna lose from the very first inning. Umpire being widly inconsistent but routinely favoring the CPU on borderline calls, bloopers dropping in, check swings resulting in infield singles, all my pitchers not able to locate their best pitches even when tapping, mound visits resulting in a negative effect on confidence, guys mis-playing balls in the OF, I mean it was a comedy of errors and I should have had the theme from Benny Hill playing in the background for it.

                                I lost 14-3, a team with hot trash for contact managed 17 hits, 8 doubles, 2 HR's meanwhile influencing didn't work once the entire game, pitches that should have been crushed were dribblers or lazy fly ball outs, the fix was definitely in. It's funny how you play a game enough that you can start to notice patterns and whats going to happen afterwards, this same thing happened against Boston earlier in the season when I lost 15-5 and the game literally played out damn near identical to the one I just finished.

                                I can't wrap my head around pitching, might go to meter and be done trying to figure out this heavily flawed classic system they have this year. I can say with 100% certainty, imo, this years classic is nowhere near like previous years when things actually made logical sense. Not sure if them making the game more offensive driven did it or they actually tweaked the interface specifically but something feels extremely off.
                                http://www.twitch.tv/kitm9891

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