Mixing up your Pitches

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  • SoxFan01605
    All Star
    • Jan 2008
    • 7982

    #16
    Re: Mixing up your Pitches

    Originally posted by nomo17k
    One thing I really don't like about the said 2K12 system is because I feel the system is backward.

    The fact that a pitcher tends to mix pitches at certain fractions is a result of his approach, which depends on situational factors as well, and not because that's necessarily the right way to mix pitches.

    One thing I like about the pitch confidence system in the Show is that it simulates how on certain days certain pitches may not just be working for the pitcher.

    If your changeup isn't working at all on a certain day, would it make sense for him to still use changeup certain amount of time, because apparently that's his average usage which the game interprets to be the best strategy? I don't think so... If you are RHP going against a lineup filled with LHBs, does it make sense to use slider as often as he does against RHBs? I don't think so...

    If the system is working like that under the food, I think at some point we end up feeling something is not realistic.
    If that's the case, you're right, it would not be as realistic (although, you're example about LHB vs RHB doesn't work as that's scouted by the IE data as well...I agree with you're overall point though).

    IMO it hinges on this:

    If you continue to throw the pitch at an abnormally high percentage when compared to the Inside Edge data and it reaches the point where the batters are now watching for the pitch, the background for the pitch turns red. At this point, you should really consider backing away from the frequency of usage of the pitch because the batters are looking for you to throw that pitch.
    It all depends on what they mean by "abnormally high." If they are working within an acceptable range, then I doubt it becomes an issue. If they are forcing you to mirror IE percentages then, yes, it would be a "backwards" system. As someone who is fairly familiar with how IE has been used in the game though, I'm not so sure that will be the case. If anything, their IE data doesn't influence the game enough. We'll see how it plays out though.

    As for The Show's pitch confidence, I agree about the plus of "not having it" for certain pitches. I like having to adjust from game to game and being able to maybe try and get back a curve by working it back in through the innings is a nice touch.

    I just don't like how the changes are calculated from pitch-to-pitch. If I hang a curve over the middle and the batter misses, my confidence goes up. If I intentionally throw a ball away on an 0-2 count and it's not swung at, it goes down. Talk about backwards...lol.

    Any system trying to mimic human conditions (confidence, "clutch," strategy, etc) is bound to have some issues that defy or stretch realism. If it adds to the overall experience more than taking away from it, I'm good. The Show's confidence system does just that IMO. Time will tell with 2K's.

    Personally, I think 2K's making a mistake in putting all this on the surface. The second any supplementary programming is made known to users, the door is opened for all manner of accusations that will eventually call every bit of supplemental programming into question...regardless of how baseless and far-fetched they are (btw that's not a shot at legit concerns/questions people are currently having about this system...everyone who frequented The Show forums for 09 and beyond will know what I was thinking of when I typed that ).

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    • nemesis04
      RIP Ty My Buddy
      • Feb 2004
      • 13530

      #17
      Re: Mixing up your Pitches

      Originally posted by SoxFan01605
      I just don't like how the changes are calculated from pitch-to-pitch. If I hang a curve over the middle and the batter misses, my confidence goes up. If I intentionally throw a ball away on an 0-2 count and it's not swung at, it goes down. Talk about backwards...lol.
      This should be better this year! The changes were more subtle from pitch to pitch and the logic appeared to be retooled a little. I am sure there will be some head scratching moments but most of it will make sense.
      Last edited by nemesis04; 02-16-2012, 04:12 PM.
      “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

      Comment

      • nomo17k
        Permanently Banned
        • Feb 2011
        • 5735

        #18
        Re: Mixing up your Pitches

        Originally posted by SoxFan01605
        ...

        As for The Show's pitch confidence, I agree about the plus of "not having it" for certain pitches. I like having to adjust from game to game and being able to maybe try and get back a curve by working it back in through the innings is a nice touch.

        I just don't like how the changes are calculated from pitch-to-pitch. If I hang a curve over the middle and the batter misses, my confidence goes up. If I intentionally throw a ball away on an 0-2 count and it's not swung at, it goes down. Talk about backwards...lol.

        ...
        Nice post, SoxFan...

        If pitcher/pitch confidence really dictates just pitch command (no reason not to believe this statement from a dev), then I guess "confidence" could be a misnomer and that may have contributed to all the confusions...

        But some obscuration is a good thing for exactly the reasons you stated, even if this sounds contradictory... If a relatively simple adjustment as in pitcher confidence affecting command produces such a wide variety of "effects" people are seeing in the game (true or not), I think overall it's a good game system that approximates the components of the realism fairly well without needlessly complicating things.

        As for how confidence develops/degrades in the Show, I agree there's room for improvement and we'll see how that works in 12. Something I'm looking forward to see!
        The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

        Comment

        • Heroesandvillains
          MVP
          • May 2009
          • 5974

          #19
          Re: Mixing up your Pitches

          Originally posted by tvman
          Ok that's what i thought, it's hidden. The cpu hitters will kill you eventually if you keep repeating the same pitch type and locations. Like you say though the API is more or less useless.
          Useless to you, sure. I respect that. But I hardly consider having the API visible a waste of programming.

          I like to play the game with the slightest amount of human input as possible. Auto fielding, Timing hitting, Classic pitching, etc. The API allows me to use SIMILAR logic as the CPU side of things (note: "Similar" is in CAPS because the User cannot shake off the catcher like the CPU can; while having the CPU suggest another pitch).

          To each their own. But I love having the option to sit back, take the call, and deliver the pitch.
          Last edited by Heroesandvillains; 02-16-2012, 04:33 PM.

          Comment

          • rudyjuly2
            Cade Cunningham
            • Aug 2002
            • 14816

            #20
            Re: Mixing up your Pitches

            Originally posted by nemesis04
            This should be better this year! The changes were more subtle from pitch to pitch and the logic appeared to be retooled a little. I am sure there will be some head scratching moments but most of it will make sense.
            That's good to hear. I'd rather a pitcher's confidence get really hurt if he gives up an 0-2 hit as opposed to laying it in there on 3-0. An 0-2 pitch that is outside of the zone should never result in a drop in confidence either unless it's a wild pitch. Any waste pitches should not count against you if they end up a ball.

            Comment

            • bigfnjoe96
              Hall Of Fame
              • Feb 2004
              • 11410

              #21
              2k is not forcing anyone to pitch a way the user doesn't want to. Mark Little made that very clear.

              What the system is trying to mimic is Real-Life tendencies via IE Data.

              I just hope the Catcher Suggestion feature is done correctly. It would be great if the catcher called the game to the strength of a pitcher as determined by IE.

              This would help the strategy immensely. I just hope IE is implemented better & it really is driving results in this years game.

              If so the Pitcher/Batter Interface will be fun to experience


              Sent from Awesome Phone
              Last edited by bigfnjoe96; 02-16-2012, 05:56 PM.

              Comment

              • DJ
                Hall Of Fame
                • Apr 2003
                • 17756

                #22
                Re: Mixing up your Pitches

                Originally posted by heroesandvillians
                Useless to you, sure. I respect that. But I hardly consider having the API visible a waste of programming.

                I like to play the game with the slightest amount of human input as possible. Auto fielding, Timing hitting, Classic pitching, etc. The API allows me to use SIMILAR logic as the CPU side of things (note: "Similar" is in CAPS because the User cannot shake off the catcher like the CPU can; while having the CPU suggest another pitch).

                To each their own. But I love having the option to sit back, take the call, and deliver the pitch.
                I use the API as well. Sure, I will go my own way from time-to-time, but to say the API is horrible is overstating things a bit. I think for the most part, the Catcher with API turned On calls a pretty good game.

                With 2K, we'll have to wait and see how it's implemented. I do like the thought process behind it, though.
                Currently Playing:
                MLB The Show 25 (PS5)

                Comment

                • MachoMyers
                  Old School
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 7670

                  #23
                  Re: Mixing up your Pitches

                  I find The Show (the only game I play) to do a pretty good job implementing real life strategies. The specific example escapes me at the moment (I am definitely not in baseball season form) but I remember something along the lines of a right hander not throwing curve balls to a lefty (correct me if I'm wrong). I made sure to stop doing that in the game because I knew it was 'wrong'. I didn't document any success or anything but I am sure the developers account for that kind of stuff.

                  I wish I knew more about the game and would know what pitches work vs specific match ups but I do like learning what to do and what to avoid strictly from a match up point of view.

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