ESPN VS MVP

**devilsjaw** · 02-23-2004, 11:46 PM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
Here were my three posts concerning it... you can agree or disagree with them, I really don't care, because I have no intention of arguing with you, it just wastes my time:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
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cappadocian said:
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ghm125 said:
you know what they need to do is focus more on the gameplay of the game instead of some more gimmicks....(FP)

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm totally in favor of this

<hr /></blockquote>

Then how is minor leagues not a gimmick? It doesn't improve gameplay, that's for sure.

In my mind, minor leagues in MVP is a gimmick. It's not the idea behind it, but it's the way they implemented it. It's built on the same engine, with the same gameplay, same kinds of music, animations, sounds (crowd and commentary), etc.

In my mind, the way that they made it was they had poorly rated people with different jerseys and stadiums, nothing else. You see, when a minor league batter faces a minor league pitcher, he won't be bad and strikeout and such, he may still bomb it 410 feet. EA didn't implement it some sort of way where they would be good against minor league pitchers, but worse against the pro pitchers. There is no engine that they created to base it on that. Also, it would be much better with different commentators, styles of cutscenes and broadcast, crowd heckles and chants, etc. I'm not really for the way that they did it... I like it because of the Team Chemistry that goes along with it though.

As for First Person Mode, it's a new engine based on the same game. You are down on the field, see what they see, and hear what they hear, etc. Hard to explain, though.

What I'm saying is that you really can't call First Person Mode a gimmick lacking gameplay enhancements without saying that minor leagues a gimmick lacking gameplay enhancements. It's too hard to be hypocritical about.

<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
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jyd28 said:
Muffin...don't drop to the lowest denomenator. Someone calling FPM a gimmick is no worse than what you just said about MVP. Both statements are untrue.

FPM can give fans a perspective they've never seen before. That is always welcome.

Playable minor leagues allow fans to actually scout their prospects hands-on. A great feature.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, true, but everything that I say has a reason. Nobody else seems to say anything backing up their statements. Nobody knows their "why"... without reason, it is just... lackluster... pointless.

There are no new gameplay elements in minor league play... not even Team Chemistry... it is also in the Pro section of this game. There are no different animations for minor leagues, no different kinds of crowd levels, etc. It's the pro game with poorly rated players, that's my SHORT take on it. Like I said, the idea was GRAND, but it needs to be built on a new engine ala ESPN Baseball to get the new gameplay in it.

<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
jyd28 said:
You seem to be focussing on the negative here....Doesn't the idea of going down to the minors to play a few games with a prospect sound AMAZING to you?

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow... you DON'T read my posts:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Like I said, the idea was GRAND

<hr /></blockquote>

And also, I'm not focusing on negatives, I'm focusing on MVP 2004's Pro-style gameplay, and that's exactly how the minor league games are, but with poorly rated players. No different feeling, just different unis and stadiums.

<hr /></blockquote>

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Not trying to argue, just want to understand your post, that's all. I see what you're trying to say regarding the minors.

I'm just thankful that it's an option, but it's baseball. To ME, the minors aare the same game with worse players. That's why it's the minors. Besides what you said about the announcers, and the crowd difference, I don't see how they could make a sperate game engine to accomodate this mode. It's all baseball.

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-23-2004, 11:49 PM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

True, but when worse players play with worse players, they get similar (if not better) results offensively usually... it's because of the whole "bell curve" thing. They would probably be 10x worse in the pros, but that doesn't mean that they should then be at Power of 57, because then how would they slam it out in the minors?

Like I said, a new engine would have to make that... yeah.

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-23-2004, 11:49 PM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

True, but when worse players play with worse players, they get similar (if not better) results offensively usually... it's because of the whole "bell curve" thing. They would probably be 10x worse in the pros, but that doesn't mean that they should then be at Power of 57, because then how would they slam it out in the minors?

Like I said, a new engine would have to make that... yeah.

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-23-2004, 11:49 PM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

True, but when worse players play with worse players, they get similar (if not better) results offensively usually... it's because of the whole "bell curve" thing. They would probably be 10x worse in the pros, but that doesn't mean that they should then be at Power of 57, because then how would they slam it out in the minors?

Like I said, a new engine would have to make that... yeah.

**nkhera1** · 02-24-2004, 12:49 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Well Muff I like you you're the Socrates of this forum (BTW that's a compliment) I just want to point out a couple things in case you don't know/just to see your reaction.

1) In regards to the minor league atmosphere. I've seen video where the minor league stadiums are pretty quiet and the sound is VERY much like a real minor league game. (I would know this because my cable provider sometimes airs Ottawa Lynx games) I do agree that it would've been nice to have different commentators but hey you can't get everything you want.

2) The whole poorly rated players thing is true BUT as Shawn Drotar said in the impressions thread some minor league players are capable of busting out and having a Dontrelle Willis type of season. So it isn't exactly the same as the pro game. You also have to remember that even tho they're poorly rated in relation to the pros they're progressing at a faster rate and should be Major League ready by a season or two. (the prospects at least)

3) Pitchers have a harder time throwing strikes/having good command in the minors, they have less pitches in their arsenal (I wonder if pitchers will be able to add pitches over time hmm?) and they're more prone to getting shelled. Fielders won't make web gems at every opportunity and finally in terms of hitting you'll have to rely on the steal and hit/run more than you would in the Majors.

In the end the minors are a different animal compared to the majors. As Shawn said in the impressions thread the minors is a bit different and will provide a challenge that you won't nesecessarily see in the pro game. In fact IIRC he said "It's like a different game down there!"

Again Muff i'm just pointing this out as discussion fodder or just to let you know.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good job! I guess that's pretty much correct, however, I gotta say though that pitchers are pretty accurate in the minors, I just don't know how EA can make it so that it's like it's on a "bell curve" basis, it seems pretty hard to do... like in the minors, one of your starting pitchers is the King on the hill... striking out batter by batter, nice control, speed, not giving up too many hits, etc., so it's like he's rated a 96 in the minors. But then, if he's brought up, then he's much more hittable, still probably the same control, but has to learn the hitters a little better, not striking out as much, etc., so that his rating is only about a 71.

If they could do that, that would help a lot aswell, and would make up for my idea of them being just "poorly rated players". Like I said, a new engine would probably be the only way to give it a "bell curve"-like system, where they are rated based on how everyone else is in the league. You know, it's like you're in 8th grade, you rule the school, you are the oldest, the tallest, and the strongest. Then next year you go to high school, and you are a lonely freshman... weaker than everyone else, and everyone else on YOU like you were to others in 8th grade.

Does any of that make sense?

<hr /></blockquote>

yeah that is a good idea, i hope they did that

**nkhera1** · 02-24-2004, 12:49 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Well Muff I like you you're the Socrates of this forum (BTW that's a compliment) I just want to point out a couple things in case you don't know/just to see your reaction.

1) In regards to the minor league atmosphere. I've seen video where the minor league stadiums are pretty quiet and the sound is VERY much like a real minor league game. (I would know this because my cable provider sometimes airs Ottawa Lynx games) I do agree that it would've been nice to have different commentators but hey you can't get everything you want.

2) The whole poorly rated players thing is true BUT as Shawn Drotar said in the impressions thread some minor league players are capable of busting out and having a Dontrelle Willis type of season. So it isn't exactly the same as the pro game. You also have to remember that even tho they're poorly rated in relation to the pros they're progressing at a faster rate and should be Major League ready by a season or two. (the prospects at least)

3) Pitchers have a harder time throwing strikes/having good command in the minors, they have less pitches in their arsenal (I wonder if pitchers will be able to add pitches over time hmm?) and they're more prone to getting shelled. Fielders won't make web gems at every opportunity and finally in terms of hitting you'll have to rely on the steal and hit/run more than you would in the Majors.

In the end the minors are a different animal compared to the majors. As Shawn said in the impressions thread the minors is a bit different and will provide a challenge that you won't nesecessarily see in the pro game. In fact IIRC he said "It's like a different game down there!"

Again Muff i'm just pointing this out as discussion fodder or just to let you know.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good job! I guess that's pretty much correct, however, I gotta say though that pitchers are pretty accurate in the minors, I just don't know how EA can make it so that it's like it's on a "bell curve" basis, it seems pretty hard to do... like in the minors, one of your starting pitchers is the King on the hill... striking out batter by batter, nice control, speed, not giving up too many hits, etc., so it's like he's rated a 96 in the minors. But then, if he's brought up, then he's much more hittable, still probably the same control, but has to learn the hitters a little better, not striking out as much, etc., so that his rating is only about a 71.

If they could do that, that would help a lot aswell, and would make up for my idea of them being just "poorly rated players". Like I said, a new engine would probably be the only way to give it a "bell curve"-like system, where they are rated based on how everyone else is in the league. You know, it's like you're in 8th grade, you rule the school, you are the oldest, the tallest, and the strongest. Then next year you go to high school, and you are a lonely freshman... weaker than everyone else, and everyone else on YOU like you were to others in 8th grade.

Does any of that make sense?

<hr /></blockquote>

yeah that is a good idea, i hope they did that

**nkhera1** · 02-24-2004, 12:49 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MuffinMcFluffin said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Well Muff I like you you're the Socrates of this forum (BTW that's a compliment) I just want to point out a couple things in case you don't know/just to see your reaction.

1) In regards to the minor league atmosphere. I've seen video where the minor league stadiums are pretty quiet and the sound is VERY much like a real minor league game. (I would know this because my cable provider sometimes airs Ottawa Lynx games) I do agree that it would've been nice to have different commentators but hey you can't get everything you want.

2) The whole poorly rated players thing is true BUT as Shawn Drotar said in the impressions thread some minor league players are capable of busting out and having a Dontrelle Willis type of season. So it isn't exactly the same as the pro game. You also have to remember that even tho they're poorly rated in relation to the pros they're progressing at a faster rate and should be Major League ready by a season or two. (the prospects at least)

3) Pitchers have a harder time throwing strikes/having good command in the minors, they have less pitches in their arsenal (I wonder if pitchers will be able to add pitches over time hmm?) and they're more prone to getting shelled. Fielders won't make web gems at every opportunity and finally in terms of hitting you'll have to rely on the steal and hit/run more than you would in the Majors.

In the end the minors are a different animal compared to the majors. As Shawn said in the impressions thread the minors is a bit different and will provide a challenge that you won't nesecessarily see in the pro game. In fact IIRC he said "It's like a different game down there!"

Again Muff i'm just pointing this out as discussion fodder or just to let you know.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good job! I guess that's pretty much correct, however, I gotta say though that pitchers are pretty accurate in the minors, I just don't know how EA can make it so that it's like it's on a "bell curve" basis, it seems pretty hard to do... like in the minors, one of your starting pitchers is the King on the hill... striking out batter by batter, nice control, speed, not giving up too many hits, etc., so it's like he's rated a 96 in the minors. But then, if he's brought up, then he's much more hittable, still probably the same control, but has to learn the hitters a little better, not striking out as much, etc., so that his rating is only about a 71.

If they could do that, that would help a lot aswell, and would make up for my idea of them being just "poorly rated players". Like I said, a new engine would probably be the only way to give it a "bell curve"-like system, where they are rated based on how everyone else is in the league. You know, it's like you're in 8th grade, you rule the school, you are the oldest, the tallest, and the strongest. Then next year you go to high school, and you are a lonely freshman... weaker than everyone else, and everyone else on YOU like you were to others in 8th grade.

Does any of that make sense?

<hr /></blockquote>

yeah that is a good idea, i hope they did that

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-24-2004, 01:13 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

Again, I don't think that the same engine can do this.

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-24-2004, 01:13 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

Again, I don't think that the same engine can do this.

**MuffinMcFluffin** · 02-24-2004, 01:13 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

Again, I don't think that the same engine can do this.

**solja** · 02-24-2004, 06:58 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

the one thing that would factor my baseball game purchase has turned up.....SEGA has put first person view in ESPN BASEBALL...it's sealed my decision has been made up...!!

**solja** · 02-24-2004, 06:58 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

the one thing that would factor my baseball game purchase has turned up.....SEGA has put first person view in ESPN BASEBALL...it's sealed my decision has been made up...!!

**solja** · 02-24-2004, 06:58 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

the one thing that would factor my baseball game purchase has turned up.....SEGA has put first person view in ESPN BASEBALL...it's sealed my decision has been made up...!!

**Money99** · 02-24-2004, 07:39 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
I don't know why Sega is being so secretive about their game.

<hr /></blockquote>

Sega's always been very secretive about their sports games. And I'm still puzzled as to why.
They were the last to release any information about ESPN Hockey. Then I realized why. The game sucked and added nothing spectacular like EA's Dynasty Mode.
Same with their football title. While EA is busy holding an EA 'Boot Camp' revealing an amazing Owners Mode and other great features, Sega hides in a hole and then jumps out with it's lame 1st person mode.

This is something that's always bothered me about Sega. They usually produce better products and simulations regarding their sports titles, yet they promote and hype so little, very few 'fence riders' know they exist.
I know they have less marketing dollars than EA, but you can't fell this Goliath with a slingshot. You've got to come at them with both barrels.
But it doesn't even take that much money to help promote your games. Look at this board and several other sites dedicated to sports games. All you have to do is continue to leak out info, release some vids once in a while or do that 'Boot Camp' thing like EA does. All of these things cost so little but do so much.

Sorry, I kind of rambled on their, but this is a sore point for me.

**Money99** · 02-24-2004, 07:39 AM

Re: ESPN VS MVP

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
I don't know why Sega is being so secretive about their game.

<hr /></blockquote>

Sega's always been very secretive about their sports games. And I'm still puzzled as to why.
They were the last to release any information about ESPN Hockey. Then I realized why. The game sucked and added nothing spectacular like EA's Dynasty Mode.
Same with their football title. While EA is busy holding an EA 'Boot Camp' revealing an amazing Owners Mode and other great features, Sega hides in a hole and then jumps out with it's lame 1st person mode.

This is something that's always bothered me about Sega. They usually produce better products and simulations regarding their sports titles, yet they promote and hype so little, very few 'fence riders' know they exist.
I know they have less marketing dollars than EA, but you can't fell this Goliath with a slingshot. You've got to come at them with both barrels.
But it doesn't even take that much money to help promote your games. Look at this board and several other sites dedicated to sports games. All you have to do is continue to leak out info, release some vids once in a while or do that 'Boot Camp' thing like EA does. All of these things cost so little but do so much.

Sorry, I kind of rambled on their, but this is a sore point for me.

ESPN VS MVP

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