Pitch count/history in ASB?

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  • FatPitcher
    *SPN B*s*b*ll
    • Jul 2002
    • 885

    #31
    Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

    That's obviously not the real ASB producer, since the real ASB producer bashes other games within ASB itself (Wrinklies, Pixels, making fun of Triple Play and High Heat...players have names like Low Res, ASB Ownzyou, etc.). Wouldn't make much sense to call yourself unprofessional.

    Anyway, I think most people realize I was not bashing ASB, which I have said more than once was a good game, but instead pointing out that it's silly to rip WSB (especially in a thread that has nothing to do with WSB, especially when what you're saying is untrue and purely malicious) then turn around and promote a game with just as many flaws.

    I like discussing the strengths and weaknesses of any game, not just the strengths of WSB and the weaknesses of other games. I want to have good competition, so that baseball games as a whole get better (unlike the Triple Play years...there I go bashing another game). And I definitely want to improve the weaknesses of WSB, which is impossible if you don't realize that there are any.

    I wouldn't mind at all if the real ASB producer took the time to make a list of things he didn't like about WSB and posted it here. After you've spent a lot of time with your game, it's hard to keep an objective perspective; having a knowledgable, experienced developer honestly evaluate your game is worth far more than any praise.

    Comment

    • FatPitcher
      *SPN B*s*b*ll
      • Jul 2002
      • 885

      #32
      Re: Pitch count/history in ASB? *DELETED*

      Post deleted by FatPitcher

      Comment

      • BaseballGuru
        Banned
        • Jul 2002
        • 998

        #33
        Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

        Yeah, I deleted it. I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you... it's a waste of both of our time.

        We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll leave you alone now, 'cause I think I made my point... with a little help from ASB Producer.

        Comment

        • FatPitcher
          *SPN B*s*b*ll
          • Jul 2002
          • 885

          #34
          Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

          You could just use one account from now on; it's less confusing. I don't even know what your point was, except that ASB = good and WSB = bad.

          Comment

          • BaseballGuru
            Banned
            • Jul 2002
            • 998

            #35
            Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

            I'm sure some of the old forum guys are well on their way of confirming ASB Producer's identity... we'll let them tell you if he's the real deal or not.

            Like I said, I'm done with you now. Good luck on your game, I hope it turns out to be all that you want it to be and more. Bye snoogins.

            Comment

            • krispykeith
              Rookie
              • Jul 2002
              • 169

              #36
              Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

              I really dont see how FatPitcher bashed ASB, he never stated the game was crap...he pointed out the things that he felt were weaknesses, most of which even the ASB fans would agree with. We cant expect a person to back up their point with solid examples and then turn around and claim they are bashing.....its like playing both sides. I do think, Fatpitcher, you opened the window for some negative feedback when you stated no one on your team has played ASB. As someone else said.....thats just horrible business and calls into question your teams dedication to making the best product. You certainly dont want to get into a "catch-up" game trying to emulate what other companies are doing at the expense of being innovative, but you cant bury your head in the sand either. Since you personally have shown a great deal of dedication simply by being in these boards, I do hope you take somthing back to your team meetings from these debates and your playing of the competition's games.
              gt: casey yellowstone PS5

              Comment

              • Chris8
                Rookie
                • Jul 2002
                • 1

                #37
                Re: ASB Producer Identity

                Yeah, that's him.


                And this is Chris, finally back to the OS forums...or whatever they are now.

                Comment

                • snowmizer
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 388

                  #38
                  Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                  krispykeith:
                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
                  I really dont see how FatPitcher bashed ASB, he never stated the game was crap

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  fatpitcher:
                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
                  There's nothing original or outstanding in ASB, so why bother [playing it]?

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Seems like a bash, so it's obvious why fatpitcher would get a rise out of some just with that one comment.

                  And to include on a list of ASB's problems unrealistic pitcher stamina, a double play animation glitch (which allows routine double plays to be turned), and dumb baserunning AI when just about everybody knows that WSB is objectively worse is just fuel to the fire we've seen in the forum. {Not that I mind; it's very entertaining }

                  *****

                  By the way, as an umpire for many years (trained by a couple of former minor league umpires... one made it high enough so that he was called in to fill in during the two most recent umpire strikes/lockouts), I have to take issue with...

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
                  - tags don't tag people; the guy puts his glove on the base instead of the player

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  If a player catches the ball early and puts his glove right at the front of the base, he'll get the out call every time even if we know there wasn't an actual tag. Everybody who plays the sport should understand that's just automatic. To list this as an ASB weakness is truly a stretch.

                  *****

                  And since ASB producer showed up in the thread, I might as well plead here for some changes.

                  I accept the ASB for what it is (it's no WSB 2k1, the gold standard for batting/pitching ), but please eliminate the lag-like responsiveness to moving the batting cursor. I don't know how to better name it, but that slight delay between input and first movement is a killer in a game with ASB's pitch speeds. In comparison, this year's WSB cursor was much better, while Home Run King was perfect, with the cursor responding instantaneously to every input.

                  And tone down the tilting with the right stick. I actually like the idea behind this feature (simulates an inside-out swing to hit to the right side, for example), but why let the batter adjust it so close to 90 degrees from its original perspective? Hitting to the right side shouldn't be so automatic, and neither should a a flyball in a sac-fly situation.

                  Hitting results should be based more on timing and batting cursor location, with realistic accentuations based on the much more minor tilt.

                  The current tilt control is too much of a good thing.

                  Comment

                  • Smallberries
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 245

                    #39
                    Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                    guys, get real. That wasn't the real ASB producer. Look at his post count - 1. It was most likely the banana dude trying to give his point credence. Pretty weak. And pretty slimy.

                    FatPitcher, I don't know if you're genuine either, but if you are, and you do indeed work on the franchise mode or menus, please do something about the way you can view player trades in next year's WSB. Currently, the list gets so long that it takes days to cycle through all of them. And since you pointed out several flaws with ASB (most of which I agree with, BTW), please note below some of the problems that I have with WSB. Consider it constructive criticism of a generally good game.

                    1) jumping - this absolutely cannot be left out of next year's game. It was almost unforgivable this time.

                    2) poor basestealing and pickoffs - this is one of the weakest areas of the game. The cat and mouse sub-game that takes place between pitcher and baserunner is a great part of baseball, and WSB has never done it well.

                    3) The Home Run Derby is crap. At least make the scoring authentic.

                    4) The AI baserunning is weak on third base. Too many times have I seen the other team hold up on third when they clearly could have scored.

                    5) Strike zone is too big - you already know this, so fix it, but not so that it's now harder to get the AI batter out.

                    6) Too many AI trades take place - In my first season, I noticed that the Yankees made 21 trades, including trading Giambi twice (they got rid of him in May, got him back in June, then traded him away again in July). Poorly done, IMO.

                    7) Game needs more of an immersion factor - ASB's Who's Hot/Not was brilliant as far as I'm concerned. The new franchise stuff in WSB is nice, but it just seems to be lacking the extra oomph to pull the gamer in. Good start, though.

                    8) Can't look at opponent players' stats during a game - sometimes I want to know how many righties and lefties are coming up, so that I can make smart pitching changes. WSB doesn't allow me to do that, so I have to commit to memory every batter.

                    There's more I'm forgetting, I'm sure, but if those were corrected for next year's game, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

                    Comment

                    • FatPitcher
                      *SPN B*s*b*ll
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 885

                      #40
                      Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                      Alright, I think I can talk about some of the stuff we are doing (some of which is already done) without getting in trouble

                      1) Jumping is in. AI jumps too, very upsetting when your screaming line drive gets snaked, although it gives me warm fuzzies too.
                      2) The new gameplay designer is VERY enthusiastic about doing stealing right. He likes the "game within a game" too (probably because he plays city league baseball and experiences it first hand), and keeps coming up with little details to add.
                      3) Don't know if I'm allowed to say what we're doing next year
                      4) We have a new AI programmer this year who really knows baseball well and who happens to be a genius too. Expect good things.
                      5) This one was easy
                      6) We'll have more than one way of dealing with this problem; one of them is so freaking cool that I can't say a word about it (except that it's freaking cool).
                      7) I don't think we'll have anything analogous to that, but we have even more really freaking cool stuff that isn't even in text PC games like Out of the Park.
                      8) That, in-game box scores, more informative substitution screens (with complete ratings), etc. are embarrassingly obvious additions.

                      Oh, and about the whole "playing the competition" thing...WSB doesn't have anything original or revolutionary, either. New features in the sports genre are pretty rare. It's just a matter of how well you implement a feature. ASBs features, for the most part, are implemented in a logical way, executed well, and are nothing exciting from a design standpoint. Expansion mode, while a very exciting feature, is designed pretty much the way any sane designer would do it and is therefore not something I as a designer feel the need to examine. There are no features in ASB that I would look at and say, AHA!! THAT'S GENIUS!! I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF DOING THINGS LIKE THAT!!

                      That doesn't mean those features are not worth adding to WSB, it just means that it would make more sense to design them around our game than to imitate ASBs method of implementing them. An example of that would be the throwback jerseys. ASB had a whole big unlocking mechanism that they were a part of; pretty standard stuff for extras in sports games. For WSB the jerseys are selectable from the beginning--I don't know that either way is better, but the unlocking aspect wouldn't have meshed with our game very well. Adding it just because ASB had it would have been a bad move.

                      Now, what playing the competition is more useful for is seeing how areas and mechanics measure up. If we finished doing everything we wanted to with stealing, then we went and played ASB and said to ourselves, "hey, stealing is more enjoyable in ASB!", then we'd start looking at specific things ASB did that made it fun. However, like I said at some point, we're not at the point yet where we're satisfied with the way things are. If we do reach that point with a certain part of the game, and we/testers/customers think that other games are still better in that area, then we need to spend some time finding out exactly why. I think that in just about all the places where WSB falls behind other games, it's pretty obvious what needs to be done. Especially when people keep reminding you

                      Comment

                      • krispykeith
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 169

                        #41
                        Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                        Snowmizer,

                        I do see your point. I guess I just always see this huge emphasis on providing reasons for being critical, and justifiably so. I didnt really see that he presented his comments as any more than his opinions. Developer, producer, game player......it really doesnt matter, these are all just opinions and this is just a message board for fans to do exactly what we are all doing, throwing our opinions around. I would rather have someone be relaxed and candid in their opinions and save the political correct answers for interviews and press releases.

                        Just as you said, the whole debate is pretty entertaining and I would like to think thats the whole point.

                        gt: casey yellowstone PS5

                        Comment

                        • rock85
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 3146

                          #42
                          Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                          If what Fatpitcher is saying next years game should be kick @ss hey Fatpitcher for more things to add to WSB check that thread which u probably already done

                          Comment

                          • BaseballGuru
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 998

                            #43
                            Re: Pitch count/history in ASB?

                            "guys, get real. That wasn't the real small berries. Look at his post count - 14. It was most likely the apple dude trying to give his point credence. Pretty weak. And pretty slimy."

                            I'm guessing you are FatPitcher. And FatPitcher is really cookusu, who we all know is the VP of 3DO. He came on here acting like a jerk, pretending to be a designer on WSB to improve his sales of HH.

                            I love all the conspiracy theories on the OS baseball boards, but I have to ask... did you remember to take your medication this morning?

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