Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

[baa7]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

Your talking 600-700 or so players. Am I correct here?

Well, I did that with MLB 2K5 and with The Show 06. What's one more baseball game?

First things first: I'd suggest to anyone who is having a problem with hitting too many HR's, to edit their team only. Past that though, I feel the CPU teams hit unrealistically as well. Plus I've taken a look at the player ratings in the game, and they're off for the many of the players - especially ratings for the stars and for the big media teams. So for me, the only option would be to edit every player in the game.

But others might be happy with just editing their team, given it's an easy and quick way to get the game to play better. And like I said, you then have the option to use the power swing, plus you can adjust your power slider up from 0. There's nothing lamer than having to play a game with the sliders at 0. I like to be able to adjust them up or down some if I feel the gameplay needs it.

[baa7]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

Baa, It sounds like this works

It does work, and I know because Kush is using the same game/ratings engine they used for 2K5. Basically, there are two main problems when it comes to hitting.

First, the way the 2K game engine works, is that the Contact ratings add loft to ball when it’s hit. So any player with high Contact ratings is going to hit tons of flyballs and even HR’s, regardless of his Power and HR ratings.

Second, Kush typically over-rates these players. It’s as if they’re attempting to replicate the steroid era Actually there’s a good (but stupid) reason they do that. Take a look at Delgado’s versus L ratings. They’re probably close to 50% higher than they should be, compared to his three-year splits. But Kush intentionally gives a player like Delgado the wrong Contact ratings, because they know if they lower them down to where they should be, that his simmed stats won’t pan out properly. Because as I said, players’ Contact ratings affect the number of flyballs and therefore HR’s they hit. IMO, it’s typical Kush game programming: they break one thing to make something else work correctly, instead of simply programming all aspects of the game properly in the first place.

Anyway, I found with 2K5 that I had to drop ratings by probably 40% on average (including fielding ratings BTW) to get the game to play realistically. And yes, it does throw off simmed stats, which I couldn’t care less about. I care about realism when playing User-CPU games. And if you watch a real baseball game, maybe 60-65% of the time that players get wood on the ball, it’s a groundball – choppers, slow rollers, hard-hit balls through the infield, etc. In 2K7, I’d bet 75% of hits are flyballs or at least hard line drives. That’s what lowering ratings does more than anything – improves that part of the game.

[GSW]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

It does work, and I know because Kush is using the same game/ratings engine they used for 2K5. Basically, there are two main problems when it comes to hitting.

First, the way the 2K game engine works, is that the Contact ratings add loft to ball when it’s hit. So any player with high Contact ratings is going to hit tons of flyballs and even HR’s, regardless of his Power and HR ratings.

Second, Kush typically over-rates these players. It’s as if they’re attempting to replicate the steroid era Actually there’s a good (but stupid) reason they do that. Take a look at Delgado’s versus L ratings. They’re probably close to 50% higher than they should be, compared to his three-year splits. But Kush intentionally gives a player like Delgado the wrong Contact ratings, because they know if they lower them down to where they should be, that his simmed stats won’t pan out properly. Because as I said, players’ Contact ratings affect the number of flyballs and therefore HR’s they hit. IMO, it’s typical Kush game programming: they break one thing to make something else work correctly, instead of simply programming all aspects of the game properly in the first place.

Anyway, I found with 2K5 that I had to drop ratings by probably 40% on average (including fielding ratings BTW) to get the game to play realistically. And yes, it does throw off simmed stats, which I couldn’t care less about. I care about realism when playing User-CPU games. And if you watch a real baseball game, maybe 60-65% of the time that players get wood on the ball, it’s a groundball – choppers, slow rollers, hard-hit balls through the infield, etc. In 2K7, I’d bet 75% of hits are flyballs or at least hard line drives. That’s what lowering ratings does more than anything – improves that part of the game.

baa7 im going to try this out right now.. may i ask what sliders you use with the modified ratings?? and what pitchers ratings do you take down as well?

[GSW]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

baa7 im going to try this out right now.. may i ask what sliders you use with the modified ratings?? and what pitchers ratings do you take down as well?

whose bright idea was it to not have numbers on the damn player bars when editing them... this is going to take forever

[baa7]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

baa7 im going to try this out right now.. may i ask what sliders you use with the modified ratings?? and what pitchers ratings do you take down as well?

Sorry, but I had to delete my 2K saves from my 360 the other day. Oblivion wasn't working properly, and 2K save files seem to conflict with that game.

My User hitting sliders were pretty typical: Contact around 35; Power at 0. I was thinking about upping Power because it was too low with the edits, but I was experimenting with something else first. I was testing the Power/Step Influence sliders for the Swing Stick, to see how effective they were. I know I had Step influence at 100. I was trying to make it really hard to hit HR’s unless I really ‘stepped into’ the pitch properly, etc.

I dropped the CPU pitcher ratings (all their versus L and R ratings) by 40% for a couple reasons. First, I play with the AI Skill slider at 0 and the AI Contact slider at or near 100. I do that because I feel it improves gameplay dramatically. I believe the AI Skill slider is nothing more than a CPU cheat, and that it artificially creates hits for the CPU. With the AI Skill slider up, it makes shifting your IF-OF pointless, because the CPU will magically find all those holes in your D. And I compensate for the CPU’s loss of hitting ability by bumping up the AI Contact slider. Just makes CPU hits more ‘honest’ IMO.

Anyway, the CPU still has trouble hitting, even with Contact slider way up, so I have to lower my pitchers’ ratings to help it out some. Also, lowering your team’s hitting ratings will make CPU pitchers too good unless you tweak their pitching ratings. You might get away with simply bumping up the User Contact slider. But I find that just adds to the flyball problem. I’m convinced it works similar to the way players’ Contact ratings work: the higher the User Contact slider is, the more flyballs you see.

[baa7]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

From an article today on ESPN.com:

"(Felix) Hernandez is also threatening to render his outfielders irrelevant. He has a ground ball to fly ball ratio of 7.50, better than even Brandon Webb's."

7.5 groundballs for every flyball he gives up - no way you'll see anything like that in 2K7 with the default rosters and player ratings.

[ProStylez]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

From an article today on ESPN.com:

"(Felix) Hernandez is also threatening to render his outfielders irrelevant. He has a ground ball to fly ball ratio of 7.50, better than even Brandon Webb's."

7.5 groundballs for every flyball he gives up - no way you'll see anything like that in 2K7 with the default rosters and player ratings.

I guess thats why this is a videogame not a real life simulation, as real as Gran Turismo is a airbag is never going to blast me in my face from my tv screen everytime I crash.
As real as I want my baseball game to be I have to remember it's a game and enjoy it for what it is.
It's funny when my 13 year old brother comes over he is like this is the best game ever, and then I'm like no it's not because I cant buy peanuts and beer from my digital vendor, us adults are so picky!

[baa7]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

I guess thats why this is a videogame not a real life simulation, as real as Gran Turismo is a airbag is never going to blast me in my face from my tv screen everytime I crash.
As real as I want my baseball game to be I have to remember it's a game and enjoy it for what it is.

I understand the thought, but that's not me. I enjoy a game for what it is AFTER I edit and tweak it so that it plays realistically. And why not, if all it takes are a few player edits?

[The Chef]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

Ok, Im at a total loss and its starting to really get under my skin. Ive tried lowering pitch speed and its helped in cutting down on swinging on garbage out of the zone somewhat, but now Im constantly out in front of nearly everything. Im in the 5th again Livan and Arizona and so far have struck out 8 times, and nearly all of them are from being out in front of garbage because its too slow. I know some people may not have liked the idea EA had, using a color coded system to help identify pitches, but this is getting rediculous. Sliders and Fastballs are way too similar and its next to impossible to read any pitches in this game unless you jack the pitch speed slider down even further, which will just mean Im out in front of even more pitches. When Im swinging and am out in front of a 92 mph fastball, thats rediculous. Im not sure if my timing is so poor that I should just give up on the game and move onto something a little more enjoyable, I was having a great time with this game but Im tired of striking out 10-12 times a game thanks to being in front of everything just so I can walk maybe 2-3 times a game. If I raise the pitch speed suddenly Im striking out 10-12 times a game because hitting is more about guessing then reacting but then Im not walking at all, it seems like there isnt a happy medium with this game at all.

EDIT- I understand the system for MVP was somewhat simplistic but there are variables that could be used to make the system better. For instance, assign a new attribute, "hitters eye", and depending on how good of an eye they have will depend on how correct their read is when the system shows what type the pitch is. For example, Pujols has a good eye at the plate and may be correct 75% of the time, where as someone like Sexson who isnt known for having a good hitters eye would be able to correctly identify the incoming pitch at say 35%, of course these #'s were pulled from thin air and could be altered to better reflect the difference in hitters but I think something along these lines is far better then guessing what every pitch is. I know some people will not want to use it but thats the beauty of making it an option and those that wouldnt want it dont have to use it either, just my two cents.

[Maukey]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

Ok, Im at a total loss and its starting to really get under my skin. Ive tried lowering pitch speed and its helped in cutting down on swinging on garbage out of the zone somewhat, but now Im constantly out in front of nearly everything. Im in the 5th again Livan and Arizona and so far have struck out 8 times, and nearly all of them are from being out in front of garbage because its too slow. I know some people may not have liked the idea EA had, using a color coded system to help identify pitches, but this is getting rediculous. Sliders and Fastballs are way too similar and its next to impossible to read any pitches in this game unless you jack the pitch speed slider down even further, which will just mean Im out in front of even more pitches. When Im swinging and am out in front of a 92 mph fastball, thats rediculous. Im not sure if my timing is so poor that I should just give up on the game and move onto something a little more enjoyable, I was having a great time with this game but Im tired of striking out 10-12 times a game thanks to being in front of everything just so I can walk maybe 2-3 times a game. If I raise the pitch speed suddenly Im striking out 10-12 times a game because hitting is more about guessing then reacting but then Im not walking at all, it seems like there isnt a happy medium with this game at all.

EDIT- I understand the system for MVP was somewhat simplistic but there are variables that could be used to make the system better. For instance, assign a new attribute, "hitters eye", and depending on how good of an eye they have will depend on how correct their read is when the system shows what type the pitch is. For example, Pujols has a good eye at the plate and may be correct 75% of the time, where as someone like Sexson who isnt known for having a good hitters eye would be able to correctly identify the incoming pitch at say 35%, of course these #'s were pulled from thin air and could be altered to better reflect the difference in hitters but I think something along these lines is far better then guessing what every pitch is. I know some people will not want to use it but thats the beauty of making it an option and those that wouldnt want it dont have to use it either, just my two cents.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. What pitch speed are you using? I was originally using 100, then dropped down to 80, now I've found my perfect speed at 60. Pitches don't move too slow, and breaking pitches look more like breaking pitches instead of disguised fastballs. Just keep practicing. You have to discipline yourself to hold off a millisecond longer before you swing, especially if you were accustomed to higher pitch speeds like I was. Also, are you using swing stick or classic. I've found that with classic, you get better contact and more variety on hits and foul balls; and I have my contact slider at 0. Just make sure that you lower all of your hit power sliders to 0, and lower your step influence to 0 so that you don't end up in a homerun fest. And before any of you swing stick lovers jump on me, the swing stick isn't too hard for me, I've been using it since I've had the game, and I'm just as efficient with it as with classic. I just find classic more enjoyable because I use it similar to the way zone hitting works (If a pitch is low and outside to a right handed batter, I'll push down and away on the left analog stick to go with the pitch; i've found that this increases the contact of the hit), and in this reguard, it makes it more challenging than the swing stick.

You are correct, reading pitches is difficult in this game, especially with pitch speeds 80 and above. While I can hit at those pitch speeds, I just wasn't enjoying myself because all of my at bats were about guessing and ratios, and I wasn't able to read and react. In other words, I'd just swing at a 2 and 1 pitch because he's most likely gonna throw a strike. With my pitch speed at 60, while still not perfect, I've found a perfect balance of guessing, as well as read and reacting. I'm also able to judge balls from strikes better because the ball isn't blurred like it is when using high pitch speeds. And I'm even able to read some breaking balls because the slower pitch speeds allow you to see the break. For some reason, high pitch speeds take away the impact of the break on pitches. I guess this is just an issue with the way 2K programmed the high pitch speeds. With a pitch speed at 60 and below, the breaking pitches look even nastier. I kid you not, I didn't know how nasty some of the breaking balls of certain pitchers in this game were until I lowered the pitch speed. **Cough**Roy Oswalt**Cough**.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

Ok, Im at a total loss and its starting to really get under my skin. Ive tried lowering pitch speed and its helped in cutting down on swinging on garbage out of the zone somewhat, but now Im constantly out in front of nearly everything. Im in the 5th again Livan and Arizona and so far have struck out 8 times, and nearly all of them are from being out in front of garbage because its too slow.

I tried this when I dropped form 90 to 65 and it helped me:

If your lowering the speed to 50, play a few exhibition games with the speed at 25 or 30 just to kind adjust to the slower speed. When you raise it to 50, your perspective will have changed a little and it will feel like it's coming in faster. Basically, your just tricking yourself.

It's kind of like swinging a heavy bat in the on deck circle to make your bat feel lighter when you step into the plate. The bat weighs the same, but you've kind of tricked your self into making it feel lighter than it is.

The same logic worked for me. Afer playing for a few weeks straight with the pitch speed at 85 and then 90, I was swinging ahead of almost everything at 60 and 65. I dropped it to 35 and then 40 for 2 games a piece and it helped me adjust when I put it back at 60.

[NastyWordz]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

The hitting in this game has really put me off of it...i am tempted to sell it. Its just to hard to judge balls and make solid contact.

[NimitsTexan]

Re: Reading pitches is starting to really frustrate me!

For me, switching from swing stick back to classic makes hitting easier and produces more realistic (or at least more varied) balls of the bat.