MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

[Blzer]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

Here's the thing:


I don't know what you guys want when you mean you want your precious "gameplay" to be fixed, but I've been hearing about the three-year plan, and while I think 2K9 will be a true gem in almost every aspect of the game (of course, with the direction they're going), 2K8 will of course fall short of that. The question is where?

MLB 2K7 had a short development cycle, and we all know that. With MLB 2K6 being released very late, they had no longer than 9 months I bet. This year, they had a full 12 months for their cycle. So, after seeing the leap that was made from 2K6 to 2K7, I think it's safe to say the leap should just look bigger from 2K7 to 2K8. Difference is, it won't probably look much different from screenshots. I mean sure, perhaps they cleaned up some visuals a bit on the image front, but I'm expecting for them to have made a much smoother game overall in terms of animations and framerate. Granted, I should keep my (and our) expectations low so we aren't disappointed... but overall, this is a step that can't be skipped. IMO I can't live with any "gameplay" improvements if this game runs as choppy as it did last year. I would just stick with 2K7 and wait for 2K9 (of course, I don't have either yet).

But what is it in "gameplay" that you guys want fixed? That's all you ask for... fix gameplay, fix gameplay. What in the Sam hell does that mean? I'll tell you what I would like: zone (or true-aim) hitting, a variable pitching slider, vastly improved grass force and friction (and slightly improved on the dirt front)... how about just a grass/dirt friction sliders? Proper air drag, reverting back to 2K5's basrunning control scheme (it's close, but they changed things a bit), better momentum (perhaps first- and second-step animations so you can change direction if you forgot to do so earlier), no pre-determined catches (like the icon underneath the players telling us to dive means the game programmed that play as a catchable play... that aspect has to go), lag calibration, smaller/lower strike zone, improved sign-calling (no splitters/sinkers up high, not always 3 - 0 cockshot fastballs), and perhaps certain dynamics that don't allow us or the AI to play players out of position (I have ideas for outfield, but that's it).


I mean, overall we have to look at specifics. Fix gameplay, fix gameplay... nonsense. It seems like the only way we can tell if "gameplay" is fixed is if it walks and talks like MLB '08: The Show. Well, that game isn't perfect, but it definitely has the laws of physics right.

Gameplay isn't all that's the problem of course, but I have a feeling things like other visuals, franchise, and online play will all be completely ironed out by 2K9. Until then, we can make a checklist to see what gameplay issues actually are fixed. And no, "gameplay" is not on its own list (neither is "play exactly like MLB 08: The Show").

[brudjazz]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

That's all that matters in the end. I haven't played The Show as I can't see myself purchasing a PS3 for 1 game, but a lot of guys who know baseball well and who I trust have favored it heavily over 2K7. 2K8 is a new year, but if what they say is correct, it's going to take a lot for 2K to produce the better baseball game.

I want this game to be great as much as anyone, but the incredible graphics get old after a while due to some suspect gameplay and awkward animations. Let's hope it's better this year because I know I won't be able to hold off on a PS3 purchase if 2K8 doesn't deliver!

Dang good post.

Not there is anything wrong with it, but I am confused at how sports gaming companies seem to want to move in the direction of producing all-world realism in their products, yet it seems the majority of game buyers are so focused on stuff that doesn't mean a thing in the real world. I mean, who in the world goes to a real game, and worries about the sock colours, or the dimensions of the scoreboard? Or, whether the rain that is falling at a realistic rate or not? Or, whether the owner of the ball club, sitting up there in his comfy luxury box, is able to control the lineups of both teams (just kidding about that one, lol)?

Come on, folks! The gameplay in 2K7 was AWFUL. It's not just the graphics or animations that make up a quality sports game. If those aspects are the center of your attention when playing a baseball game, then you're not really into this for the game. It must be something else. I have yet to see a baseball game where pitchers actually throw a realistic amount of walks per game. Where pitches are NOT laser-sighted, resulting in batter after batter taking pitches. Where when you receive pitches, some throws are obviously not strikes. Where physics play a role in the arcs and paths of throws,. Where there are animations in-game that aren't just the generic "press X" to stop kind. I want to be up to bat, and see the crowd throwing around a beach ball. Not just some generic in-between-innings (or before player steps up to the plate) animation of the crowd doing this, as I suspect even the new MLB '08 game will have. I want to see real brawls and realistic injuries. Not where some shortstop trips and lands on his knees, and suffers a cut to the left ear.

I'm done ranting on this, but a BIG PART of why we are not seeing games as realistic as they should be at this point (after how many decades of sports games being produced?) is that gamers rarely demonstrate working knowledge of the game being portrayed, both when making a purchasing decision and when playing it. Developer and marketing teams pay attention to this type of stuff, and in the end the types of games sitting on the shelves will be similar to the ones you bought before. Stop buying the games you don't like, and producers will do what is necessary to get you to buy again. If they're really serious about making a quality baseball product (this applies to all the other types of sports games out there), they won't just shut down their operations because product sales weren't as expected. I think SCEA is a prime example of a quality company really wanting to make a quality product. Takes a bit of courage and patience on the part of buyers, I know, because we all are just looking for the next gaming fix.

[mjb2124]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

Blzer - I can't speak for everyone else, but when I speak of fixing the gameplay, I'm talking about fixing the fundamentals of baseball that are improper in this game. You mentioned a few of them earlier (ie: the improper strike zone, throwing high splitters/sinkers/curves, 3-0 fastballs always down the pipe, occasionally poor ball physics off the bat, improbable throwing angles from infielders ranging into the hole, odd managerial decisions by the CPU etc...).

I agree with many of the other things you mentioned. A true zone hitting approach and variable pitcher slider would fix two of my biggest gripes with last years game.

Basically stating "fix the gameplay" is a shorter way for me to say, tighten up the little things that make this game play closer to it's real life counterpart. More times than not, there just isn't the time to type everything out and dissect it. I could do it when I was younger, but as I've gotten older, there just doesn't seem to be enough time in the day.

[bulls23]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

If you're asking what is the big deal then you've haven't played The Show. Still, I'm getting both when released.

I played the Show on PS2. There is no way I'd buy a system for one game, even though I've owned the PS1 and PS2, I didn't go with the PS3 because they didnt get their s*** together soon enough. I should be asking you the same question "If you're asking why I haven't played the Show you haven't played MLB 2k7 at all and especially AFTER the patch. Most people gave up on 2k7 before they patched it. It was a completely different game afterwards and I believe that shows they are going to "show" big improvements in 2K8, just as 2k7 did over 2k6.

[razordoggy]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I played the Show on PS2. There is no way I'd buy a system for one game, even though I've owned the PS1 and PS2, I didn't go with the PS3 because they didnt get their s*** together soon enough. I should be asking you the same question "If you're asking why I haven't played the Show you haven't played MLB 2k7 at all and especially AFTER the patch. Most people gave up on 2k7 before they patched it. It was a completely different game afterwards and I believe that shows they are going to "show" big improvements in 2K8, just as 2k7 did over 2k6.

I don't usually post as I'm usually a lurker but I needed to respond to this. brudjazz hits the nail right on the head with his post. I own both a ps3 and a 360. I bought mlb 2k7 hoping they had fixed it from the abortion that was 2k6. I saw great graphics, I played the demo and thought, THIS IS IT! Alas, ****ty animations, horrible framerates, the need to try 100 different sliders, and just the lack of overall gameplay "feel" to the game completely lost it for me. I played with the patch installed too Bulls23, and yes the difference was noticeable. 2k did a great job of fixing some of the issues but the problems with 2k7 were so glaring that it only fixed a small amount of issues. Does this provide some hope for 2k8? Ofcourse it does, but what 2k has consistently shown the past two years is that they don't understand baseball and baseball fans. They don't understand the need for a game to be tuned BEFORE it gets shipped. They don't understand the need for realism. They don't understand the need to properly play test their games so major bugs don't ruin months of franchise work. They don't understand most importantly, the subtleties. The things that make the baseball so unique. This is why we rarely see walks in 2k7, or why pitchers have near perfect control, or why the batting control stick isn't implemented well.

In contrast to these issues, I see MLB The Show. I bought my ps3 JUST for this game. And what I saw was a company that understood this. The game played great OUT OF THE BOX. I didn't have to fiddle with sliders, I didn't have to worry about the opponents being to easy for me. I played a full season, and the playoffs. My ALCS went 7 games, and I lost on a 3 run rally in the 8th inning from a reliever I KNEW I should have traded months before. Thats baseball, worrying about the game, not the mechanics of it. The Show is lightyears ahead of any product that 2k has thrown out there. The way the pitching is realistic and batters DO walk and DO strike out. The way hitters can still hit mistake pitches and pop them up. Hell, the way the game feels when you hit a single up the middle with a runner on 2nd in the 9th to win it. More than anything, baseball is a game of feeling, similarly, baseball games are a game of feeling. And its quite simple, 2k games just DO NOT FEEL RIGHT.

I'm not a 2k or SCEA fan boy. I will read the reviews here on OS and buy the best one. If its a toss up, I'll buy both. I'm looking for simulation and realism. I'm looking for something to work OUT OF THE BOX. So far, looking at the track record, 2k has never provided that. SCEA has.

[bulls23]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I don't usually post as I'm usually a lurker but I needed to respond to this. brudjazz hits the nail right on the head with his post. I own both a ps3 and a 360. I bought mlb 2k7 hoping they had fixed it from the abortion that was 2k6. I saw great graphics, I played the demo and thought, THIS IS IT! Alas, ****ty animations, horrible framerates, the need to try 100 different sliders, and just the lack of overall gameplay "feel" to the game completely lost it for me. I played with the patch installed too Bulls23, and yes the difference was noticeable. 2k did a great job of fixing some of the issues but the problems with 2k7 were so glaring that it only fixed a small amount of issues. Does this provide some hope for 2k8? Ofcourse it does, but what 2k has consistently shown the past two years is that they don't understand baseball and baseball fans. They don't understand the need for a game to be tuned BEFORE it gets shipped. They don't understand the need for realism. They don't understand the need to properly play test their games so major bugs don't ruin months of franchise work. They don't understand most importantly, the subtleties. The things that make the baseball so unique. This is why we rarely see walks in 2k7, or why pitchers have near perfect control, or why the batting control stick isn't implemented well.

In contrast to these issues, I see MLB The Show. I bought my ps3 JUST for this game. And what I saw was a company that understood this. The game played great OUT OF THE BOX. I didn't have to fiddle with sliders, I didn't have to worry about the opponents being to easy for me. I played a full season, and the playoffs. My ALCS went 7 games, and I lost on a 3 run rally in the 8th inning from a reliever I KNEW I should have traded months before. Thats baseball, worrying about the game, not the mechanics of it. The Show is lightyears ahead of any product that 2k has thrown out there. The way the pitching is realistic and batters DO walk and DO strike out. The way hitters can still hit mistake pitches and pop them up. Hell, the way the game feels when you hit a single up the middle with a runner on 2nd in the 9th to win it. More than anything, baseball is a game of feeling, similarly, baseball games are a game of feeling. And its quite simple, 2k games just DO NOT FEEL RIGHT.

I'm not a 2k or SCEA fan boy. I will read the reviews here on OS and buy the best one. If its a toss up, I'll buy both. I'm looking for simulation and realism. I'm looking for something to work OUT OF THE BOX. So far, looking at the track record, 2k has never provided that. SCEA has.

I respect your opinion but it took SCEA a few years to get MLB to where it is today. Did you ever play MLB 2004-06 on PS2...many of the same bugs you talk about with 2k were showing up in those games. Brinkman has the 3 year plan in action. I don't think we can really judge 2k until they have had the same amount of time as MLB has to tweak their franchise. Even as good as MLB The Show is supposed to be, they still don't capture the depth of a baseball title. 2K has at least tried to add the extra things that a lot of us liked in All-Star baseball (weather, hanging k's, foul ball interaction with fans, fan reaction, fans wearing jerseys) I'm not saying that this is more important than gameplay, however MLB has not even attempted any kind of depth until now and they advertise it as SOME GREAT FEATURE. Im looking for not only a good gameplay experience but also the depth that MVP and All Star Baseball gave (waivers, 40 man rosters, playable minor leagues (MLB still doesnt have this), working scoreboards, retractable roofs, rainouts)

[Money99]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

That's all that matters in the end. I haven't played The Show as I can't see myself purchasing a PS3 for 1 game, but a lot of guys who know baseball well and who I trust have favored it heavily over 2K7. 2K8 is a new year, but if what they say is correct, it's going to take a lot for 2K to produce the better baseball game.

I want this game to be great as much as anyone, but the incredible graphics get old after a while due to some suspect gameplay and awkward animations. Let's hope it's better this year because I know I won't be able to hold off on a PS3 purchase if 2K8 doesn't deliver!

I'm in the same boat. The only loyalty I have towards the 2K line is that I own a 360 and not a PS3. I desperately want 2K8 to be on par or even close to TheShow08 but at this point I'll settle for a gameplay improvement over 2K7.

As of right now, The Show has set the standard and the bar is extremely high. The team at SCEA should be applauded for the masterpiece they've created. All we can hope for is that the 2K team reaches for that bar and gets as close as they possibly can.
I imagine it'll be a few years before the series's can be mentioned in the same breath. In my mind anyway.

Cheers.

[dmbfan1970]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I soured on MLB The Show last year. I bought a PS3 for blu-ray and this baseball game. I only like to play in ONLINE leagues and it was a disaster.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

Personally I really hope they fix the SIMULATION & STATS ENGINE. This title has been plague by this Engine Problem ever since KUSH took the series over & personally I'm tired of it...

Thought I appreciated those who create accurate ROSTERS. This should not be done due to the PLAYER RATINGS being all SCREWED from the day the game SHIPS. What good does great game play do, when the SIM & STAT Engine is still BROKEN....

[catcatch22]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

Hey that's ur choice u choose to be fustrated because of no cursor hitting.. I myself enjoyed mlb2k7 alot even though i know it's not perfect. So u dont think there was a major jump from 2k6 and 2k7?? Cause there was a major jump and i know it's only going to get better.

I've been playing the Sega - Kush - World Series Baseball/ Espn Baseball/ MLB 2kxx since 1995 on the genesis with World Series baseball 95. The iteration always had cursor hitting for 10 years. What cursor hitting gives you is control. Control to hit the ball in the air or to do a baltimore chop on the ball as well. By taking away cursor hitting they have effectively taken the control right out of my hands. I can't force a fly ball in a fly ball situation. I can't slap at the ball and chop at it in a move the runner situation either. Effectively nullifying my control as to what I want to do when I step up to the plate with my batter.

There are other aspects I just don't like about the pitching mechanics and other aspects that just didn't fit well with me. The biggest component of the game I love the most is the Inside Edge stuff and the catcher calling the game behind the plate which is pure genious. However the gamelplay mechanics themselves when it comes to hitting, pitching, baserunning are all to convoluded and not as intuitive as years passed or just don't have the depth needed for a baseball game.

[foofighter2455]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I've never played The Show but from the screen shots I've seen I think they already made their new game equal to the best the 2K series could offer in graphics. If the gameplay was that much better than the HR infested crap we played all year with 2K there should be no contest.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I've never played The Show but from the screen shots I've seen I think they already made their new game equal to the best the 2K series could offer in graphics.

Makin' sure I'm reading this right...

[Spectre]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I've never played The Show but from the screen shots I've seen I think they already made their new game equal to the best the 2K series could offer in graphics. If the gameplay was that much better than the HR infested crap we played all year with 2K there should be no contest.

The graphics for 2K7 are still way ahead of the Show, at least in stills.

For me, I thought the Show looked horrendous last year so its made huge strides in that department but its not in the same ballpark as 2K. Graphics are not the strong point of that series though. The player models are still a off in the Show. MLB 2K7 was the best looking game (not just sports games) I've played- the animations stunk, but through cutscenes and stills, the game looked gorgeous.

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

I've never played The Show but from the screen shots I've seen I think they already made their new game equal to the best the 2K series could offer in graphics. If the gameplay was that much better than the HR infested crap we played all year with 2K there should be no contest.

While I agree the overall graphics could be somewhat close(2k8-'08), 2k'7s player models absolutely destroyed Sony's last year.

[foofighter2455]

Re: MLB 2k7 already has most of the features announced for MLB 08

Yeah, that's why I said the ones in the new game... Last year's The Show was a PS2 game graphics wise, the new screens are just as impressive as 2K7's last year.