The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

God I think its time I stop wasting time. Maybe I should just forget 2K its hitting is turning to arcade like for me....maybe the SHOW is the way to go. Its too bad cuz the other parts of the game are really accurately representing baseball in cool ways. But this swing stick for hitting is ******** imo. And clearly too many people are willing to eat up anythign that they serve up as long as it is mapped to the analog stick

So how many times have you tried the hitting in 2k8 so far?? You know the hitting that is COMPLETLEY overhauled??

That would be a big fat GOOSE EGG.

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

The swing stick is a great innovation. 2K simply needs to offer zone hitting as a second option to timed. I would love to see a system where the R stick is used as a swing stick, and the L stick to aim at the pitch.

I thought about this when I first tryed "load and fire" with MVP 06 and I honestly think it would be a lot more difficult then it seems. It seems like it would be like rubbing your stomach while tapping your head.

[baa7]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

the hitting is just sad in this game. to me its not next gen

Isn't it next-gen? Next-gen is mostly about online gaming. Look at 2K's APF football effort: it's basically a game exclusively designed for online gamers, and that's it. Likewise, 2K MLB introduced timed-only swinging, because they're looking at making the game easy and assessible to online gamers, knowing that's essentially where the future of video gaming lies. That's my take on things anyway.

[baa7]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

I thought about this when I first tryed "load and fire" with MVP 06 and I honestly think it would be a lot more difficult then it seems. It seems like it would be like rubbing your stomach while tapping your head.

Might be difficult, yes. And IMO that would be a good thing. I found pitching and hitting in both 2K and The Show either much too easy or much too simplistic in 06 (didn't buy either flawed game in 07).

[baa7]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

So how many times have you tried the hitting in 2k8 so far?? You know the hitting that is COMPLETLEY overhauled??

That's a valid comment, and the reason why I'll at least be renting 2K8 and giving it a chance at least. Regardless, the thread topic IS about putting a zone hitting component back in the game. And it SHOULD be an option in any baseball game, period.

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

That's a valid comment, and the reason why I'll at least be renting 2K8 and giving it a chance at least. Regardless, the thread topic IS about putting a zone hitting component back in the game. And it SHOULD be an option in any baseball game, period.

Ok my bad. I can agree with multiple options to suit more gamers. Just like in The Show with the HR celebration camera you can turn it on and off. I am hoping that you can do the same with 2k8 but I'm not expecting so.

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

Isn't it next-gen? Next-gen is mostly about online gaming. Look at 2K's APF football effort: it's basically a game exclusively designed for online gamers, and that's it. Likewise, 2K MLB introduced timed-only swinging, because they're looking at making the game easy and assessible to online gamers, knowing that's essentially where the future of video gaming lies. That's my take on things anyway.

I think 2k8 is headed in the right direction in simplyifing things with the hitting. I just think the timing window should be GREATLY increased so we see more foul balls, balls tipped into the catchers mitt, balls hit hard, balls hit weak, etc etc etc. Also the type of swing you put on the ball should be very particular.

Swinging a bat in real life is a reaction. You don't think about where the ball is pitched and how you have to adjust. You just react. You track the ball for as long as you possibly can. I think we should still see the occasional miss based on simple contact attributes. So when we are batting with someone like Adam Dunn and you put a good swing on a high fastball in the zone and think you timed it right and miss you are surprised for a milisecond until you realize you are batting with Dunn.

Overall if the timing window is greatly increased so every milisecond makes a difference then we could see some more hit variety (of course if they mastered the bat-to-ball physics to match) and we could see some pretty accurate results if they tied in batter's tendencies along with it. Things like Mike Lowell is a dead pull hitter. Johnny Damon will hit 20 HR's a season but just about all of them will be pulled. Ortiz crowds the plate like someone mentioned because of his natural pull tendencies. Bill Mueller (I know he's retired) would be hitting singles up the middle on pitches that are well timed for the most part.

[maverick3176]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

So how many times have you tried the hitting in 2k8 so far?? You know the hitting that is COMPLETLEY overhauled??

That would be a big fat GOOSE EGG.

It has been described with detail. I can tell that essential elements are not in it. There are only but so many ways you can do a swing stick that doesnt incorporate aiming the actual bat. It has been said. It lacks user control. If someone said that there is auto-feilding and you only have to hit the throw buttons. I wouldnt have to play it to complain about it.

Do me a favor...when the game comes out and I am right about what i am saying...please write back and say "wow, Maverick, you are really smart you totally understood the hitting system without playing it...i am impressed"

[Trevytrev11]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

Swinging a bat in real life is a reaction. You don't think about where the ball is pitched and how you have to adjust. You just react. You track the ball for as long as you possibly can. I think we should still see the occasional miss based on simple contact attributes. So when we are batting with someone like Adam Dunn and you put a good swing on a high fastball in the zone and think you timed it right and miss you are surprised for a milisecond until you realize you are batting with Dunn.

I agree that it is a reaction, but to me, part of that reaction is also recognizing where the pitch is. I think simple is better here, but still think that second dimension of location is important, especially to add fairness to a pitcher. Otherwise the difficut level of hitting any pitch that is reachable is the exact same. Hitting a fastball on the corner, is as easy as hitting a fastball down the middle because all you have to do is time it.

Along with the change of speed whole point of a pitcher throwing a breaking ball is to trick the hitter into thinking the pitch will end up in one location instead of another. The whole point of a sinker is so that the hitter perceives the ball to go to one spot, but ends up swining over it because it moved below his bat. Rivera's cutter is so deceiving because it looks like a fat strike and then busts the inner half of the plate or even comes in off of the plate. With a timing only system, that deception is negated if the pitch is hittable because it requires you only to time it. Timing the one down the middle is the same as timing the one on the corner, so as long as you get the timing down, solid contact is guaranteed.

At minimum, I would like a system that requires you to press in the general direction of the pitch (Left and Up) for a pitch up and in to a righty. I think this would atleast take care of the general reaction of locating the pitch.

[baa7]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

I think 2k8 is headed in the right direction in simplyifing things with the hitting.

I can't argue that until I try their hitting system this year. I loved the swing stick last year, and they improved it this year. So that alone is going to be a highlight of the game. And if they have somehow reprogrammed the hitting engine to respond more correctly to pitch location, I may well be happy with that, even though zone isn't part of the equation.

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

It has been described with detail. I can tell that essential elements are not in it. There are only but so many ways you can do a swing stick that doesnt incorporate aiming the actual bat. It has been said. It lacks user control. If someone said that there is auto-feilding and you only have to hit the throw buttons. I wouldnt have to play it to complain about it.

Do me a favor...when the game comes out and I am right about what i am saying...please write back and say "wow, Maverick, you are really smart you totally understood the hitting system without playing it...i am impressed"

Well your example with fielding is totally different. Hitting can produce so many different results. Fielding is catching the ball and throwing it. There is so much more to hitting.

I am not saying you are wrong in what you are thinking. You do have very good logical points. I am just simply saying wait it out and play it before you are so sure on how it's going to be.

[maverick3176]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

I think 2k8 is headed in the right direction in simplyifing things with the hitting. I just think the timing window should be GREATLY increased so we see more foul balls, balls tipped into the catchers mitt, balls hit hard, balls hit weak, etc etc etc. Also the type of swing you put on the ball should be very particular.

Swinging a bat in real life is a reaction. You don't think about where the ball is pitched and how you have to adjust. You just react. You track the ball for as long as you possibly can. I think we should still see the occasional miss based on simple contact attributes. So when we are batting with someone like Adam Dunn and you put a good swing on a high fastball in the zone and think you timed it right and miss you are surprised for a milisecond until you realize you are batting with Dunn.

Overall if the timing window is greatly increased so every milisecond makes a difference then we could see some more hit variety (of course if they mastered the bat-to-ball physics to match) and we could see some pretty accurate results if they tied in batter's tendencies along with it. Things like Mike Lowell is a dead pull hitter. Johnny Damon will hit 20 HR's a season but just about all of them will be pulled. Ortiz crowds the plate like someone mentioned because of his natural pull tendencies. Bill Mueller (I know he's retired) would be hitting singles up the middle on pitches that are well timed for the most part.

Dave you are killing me dude.

1. How can you say simplistic is better, when the pitching, throwing and feilding for this game are all getting more compllicated and giving the user more control.

2. Your comments about hitting make me realize the problem. Some of us have played baseball, we realize that hitting is an act of true hand eye coordination, that the difference between a homer, a foul ball and miss is inches and those inches are determined not just by timing...but by where I chose to swing the ball. Player attributes should give the user room for greater error...but in the end...i am not simming the game...i want to play it. I think some people dont play baseball and are pure gamers and want simple button controls for things and have no idea how it is nothing like real life.

3. Now with this easy over simplified timing system...you want the timing window even bigger? Would you like a prompt to tell you when to swing so it eliminates all chances of missing the ball. I mean at some point the game needs to have a realistic level of difficulty. Hitting a baseball isnt easy and the game should reflect that.

4. With my hitting system it would allow for options. The current method has no option (classic and swing stick are both timed) for someone who actually wants realism and some degree of difficulty and user control.

5. The game has gone in the direction of sim, realism and increased user control in EVERY aspect except hitting. If you want simple then the pitching system will probably drive you nuts.

[davewins]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

I agree that it is a reaction, but to me, part of that reaction is also recognizing where the pitch is. I think simple is better here, but still think that second dimension of location is important, especially to add fairness to a pitcher. Otherwise the difficut level of hitting any pitch that is reachable is the exact same. Hitting a fastball on the corner, is as easy as hitting a fastball down the middle because all you have to do is time it.

Along with the change of speed whole point of a pitcher throwing a breaking ball is to trick the hitter into thinking the pitch will end up in one location instead of another. The whole point of a sinker is so that the hitter perceives the ball to go to one spot, but ends up swining over it because it moved below his bat. Rivera's cutter is so deceiving because it looks like a fat strike and then busts the inner half of the plate or even comes in off of the plate. With a timing only system, that deception is negated if the pitch is hittable because it requires you only to time it. Timing the one down the middle is the same as timing the one on the corner, so as long as you get the timing down, solid contact is guaranteed.

At minimum, I would like a system that requires you to press in the general direction of the pitch (Left and Up) for a pitch up and in to a righty. I think this would atleast take care of the general reaction of locating the pitch.

I agree with everything you said. I was under the impression that you do have to swing the right analog stick in the general direction.

Example: here's my little strike zone...

123
456
789

Any pitch to zones 1, 4, and 7 would be an 11 o'clock up swing with the right stick. Pitch in zones 2, 5, and 8 would be 12 o'clock up swing and zones 3, 6, and 9 would be a 1 o'clock up swing.

[maverick3176]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

I agree that it is a reaction, but to me, part of that reaction is also recognizing where the pitch is. I think simple is better here, but still think that second dimension of location is important, especially to add fairness to a pitcher. Otherwise the difficut level of hitting any pitch that is reachable is the exact same. Hitting a fastball on the corner, is as easy as hitting a fastball down the middle because all you have to do is time it.

Along with the change of speed whole point of a pitcher throwing a breaking ball is to trick the hitter into thinking the pitch will end up in one location instead of another. The whole point of a sinker is so that the hitter perceives the ball to go to one spot, but ends up swining over it because it moved below his bat. Rivera's cutter is so deceiving because it looks like a fat strike and then busts the inner half of the plate or even comes in off of the plate. With a timing only system, that deception is negated if the pitch is hittable because it requires you only to time it. Timing the one down the middle is the same as timing the one on the corner, so as long as you get the timing down, solid contact is guaranteed.

At minimum, I would like a system that requires you to press in the general direction of the pitch (Left and Up) for a pitch up and in to a righty. I think this would atleast take care of the general reaction of locating the pitch.

Trev...i think you prove a theory of mine. You played competiteve ball. You understand the complexity of hitting. It is not as simple as flick your wrist at it. You clearly spoke on it from a pitching perspective. If you dont have to aim...what difference does make to hit the corners or really change location for that matter. variations on the fastball become meaningless (sinker, cutter, 2-seamer, 4-seamer) what difference would it make which one was thrown if you dont have to aim to hit it.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

Well your example with fielding is totally different.Hitting can produce so many different results. Fielding is catching the ball and throwing it.

On a seperate note, I would love a more user controlled fielding system that incorportated a "catch" button, but that is a different topic altogether

There is so much more to hitting.

Which to me is exactly why it needs to be more than timing.