Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

By random dudes, you mean paying customers...I'm not asking for him to call his co-workers out, but at least own up to the mistakes.

I know you do or used to work in the industry so you obviously have a different perspective that the typical end-user, but imagine you bought a house and the plumbing didn't work, though it should have and you weren't pre-warned that it didn't...would you just say "oh well" Things go on behind the scenes? I mean, they did a great job in the kitchen and the crown molding in the dining room is great.

Maybe public humiliation was harsh...how about public criticism? How about just some critical, to the point questions. I think that would be fair. "Ben, why doesn't the AI steal?" "Ben, what's with every pitcher throwing strikes at the rate of Greg Maddux?" "Ben, why does my pitching rotation reset every time I go to the rotation screen?".

If the game cost the same as a house, I'd agree with you. When a movie comes out, and you don't like it, do you expect the director or actors or set builders to come onto a public forum and "admit their sins" to you?

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

If the game cost the same as a house, I'd agree with you. When a movie comes out, and you don't like it, do you expect the director or actors or set builders to come onto a public forum and "admit their sins" to you?

Quality of a movie is completely up to speculation like all other art forms. Video games missing something that is obvious is a little different.

However, I'm sure if you went to see a movie and the dialouge was missing, you would ask for your money back, no?I would in a heart beat.

So since a house is too expensive and video game is too cheap, please tell me the exact dollar amount in which it is ok to complain about? $100? $1,000? If my car radio doesn't work can I complain about that?

First off, cost is relative to the buyer. I don't mind paying $60, but that might be the better part of a weeks work for a college stundent. And whether the product is $5 instead $5,000 doesn't give the producer of the product a "free pass". I can just see Ben Brinkman say "What do you mean the franchise doesn't work, it was only $60"

[milbrewcity]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

]But if I told the forums everything that I knew about how certain decisions are made and how and why things went wrong on certain games that I've worked on, I'd be blackballed from the industry. No offense, but you guys aren't worth it.

Hey Dr. Jones - The last thing I would ever want to see is you blackballed from the gaming industry. Let us know the best way to proceed so that can't happen. We value your feedback.

[DaoudS]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

I love the honesty of Dr. Jones. Often that is what most people need to hear to put things into perspective.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

What if something that you screwed up on work was because of the boss, or your boss's boss, or one or more of your co-workers? Would you throw them under the bus on a public forum that you knew your boss and co-workers were probably reading?

That's where the "we" comes into account. Ben is the leader of his team like a coach is the leader of his...very rarely does the coach call players out. Use "We"...simple.

[myghty]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Quality of a movie is completely up to speculation like all other art forms. Video games missing something that is obvious is a little different.

However, I'm sure if you went to see a movie and the dialouge was missing, you would ask for your money back, no?I would in a heart beat.

So since a house is too expensive and video game is too cheap, please tell me the exact dollar amount in which it is ok to complain about? $100? $1,000? If my car radio doesn't work can I complain about that?

First off, cost is relative to the buyer. I don't mind paying $60, but that might be the better part of a weeks work for a college stundent. And whether the product is $5 instead $5,000 doesn't give the producer of the product a "free pass". I can just see Ben Brinkman say "What do you mean the franchise doesn't work, it was only $60"

Those are some great points.

[mgoblue]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

I know what these guys want, they just don't realize that it's pretty much legally and just plain common sense never going to happen. Brinkman would be a total idiot if he torched his team and company.

You guys are asking the Knicks captain to say "Yeah, I suck, our team sucks, our coach sucks, our GM sucks, our owner sucks, our fans suck, and my grandma sucks too." to the press. It's not going to happen. Sure, that captain may be thinking these things (sorry grandma), but to make official comments like this is professional suicide.

Only bad things happen to Brinkman and 2k when someone makes comments like what you guys want. Nothing good comes of it. Sure, random internet guys can go "Hah! I win, the bastard admitted it", but from a purely business standpoint they have nothing to gain. This isn't a "be the better man" type thing, they're selling a product. Setting fire to their product a week after release is the dumbest thing I can ever imagine.

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Quality of a movie is completely up to speculation like all other art forms. Video games missing something that is obvious is a little different.

However, I'm sure if you went to see a movie and the dialouge was missing, you would ask for your money back, no?I would in a heart beat.

So would I. Would I ask for a public apology from the guy running the projector? No.

So since a house is too expensive and video game is too cheap, please tell me the exact dollar amount in which it is ok to complain about? $100? $1,000? If my car radio doesn't work can I complain about that?

Feel free to complain at any price level.

First off, cost is relative to the buyer. I don't mind paying $60, but that might be the better part of a weeks work for a college stundent. And whether the product is $5 instead $5,000 doesn't give the producer of the product a "free pass". I can just see Ben Brinkman say "What do you mean the franchise doesn't work, it was only $60"

I was a producer at EA for several years. Do you know what a producer's job is? To get Product X on shelves by Date Y, making sure that the Metacritic rating doesn't drop below Z. No excuses. No matter what hours are required. And then we strive for the best quality possible. If our game sucked because our budget was cut in half, or our best programmers were "moved" onto FIFA, or some key people weren't good at their jobs (or sick, or quit), we can't go online and say so unless we want to get fired. We're not even allowed to say, "Our game sucked (reasons withheld)" unless we get permission to do so. Guess how often that happens.

[myghty]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

I know what these guys want, they just don't realize that it's pretty much legally and just plain common sense never going to happen. Brinkman would be a total idiot if he torched his team and company.

You guys are asking the Knicks captain to say "Yeah, I suck, our team sucks, our coach sucks, our GM sucks, our owner sucks, our fans suck, and my grandma sucks too." to the press. It's not going to happen. Sure, that captain may be thinking these things (sorry grandma), but to make official comments like this is professional suicide.

Only bad things happen to Brinkman and 2k when someone makes comments like what you guys want. Nothing good comes of it. Sure, random internet guys can go "Hah! I win, the bastard admitted it", but from a purely business standpoint they have nothing to gain. This isn't a "be the better man" type thing, they're selling a product. Setting fire to their product a week after release is the dumbest thing I can ever imagine.

He admitted that they messed up on 2K7, why cant he do the same for 2k8? Make it like a tradition every year. "Oops, we did it again this year but we'll fix it next year."

[roadman]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

I can assure anyone here Dr Jones is correct about developers and producers going on message boards and absorbing the heat.

I worked very closely at an Sr. Developer of HH baseball and I was always the go between. HH had sent a person earlier to another board and they crucified them. The Sr. Developer told me I couldn't directly quote them, I would need to paraphrase. He said based on the hours they work, it was a waste of time to daily go on a message board and look for all the negatives. He said their time spent was to better the game either via patch or next years version.

I haven't seen "Mick Fleetwood" show up here since the MVP days. I don't know why that would change all of a sudden.

[myghty]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Well its pointless if he keeps silent about it anyways. He will face the wrath eventually when he is out there again promoting 2K9 next year. And again we will believe everything he said cause its the end of the 3 year plan...

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Hey Dr. Jones - The last thing I would ever want to see is you blackballed from the gaming industry. Let us know the best way to proceed so that can't happen. We value your feedback.

Don't rile me up by taking shots at my friends.

Listen, I understand everyone's complaints. People have every right to complain, and it can help us out. Some of MVP's features came about because people on these boards asked for certain things and complained about others, and it gave us ammunition to say, "Look, these things are important! We need man-hours to put X in or fix Y." But if you're expecting a mea culpa from devs when things go wrong, it's very unlikely to happen for the reasons I've already brought up. And calling people out on a personal level will get you absolutely nowhere.

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

He admitted that they messed up on 2K7, why cant he do the same for 2k8?

You think he didn't get signoff to say something like that? Do you think he'd be allowed to say something like that if his bosses thought they'd negatively impact sales?

[Zackdawg]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Well its pointless if he keeps silent about it anyways. He will face the wrath eventually when he is out there again promoting 2K9 next year. And again we will believe everything he said cause its the end of the 3 year plan...

Actually, I can tell you from personal experience that demanding accountability from anyone from a development company will more likely get you crucified by your fellow board members to stop "focusing on the past and help make the next game better" or worse, get you banned.

Apparently there is never a time to hold game developers accountable for their product even if it always seems like it is the right time to hand them another $60 for an incomplete game.

[mgoblue]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

You think he didn't get signoff to say something like that? Do you think he'd be allowed to say something like that if his bosses thought they'd negatively impact sales?

Yeah...and if every year you say "We screwed up", doesn't it make you wonder about that team's ability. It's just not good PR. Sure, it makes the rabid sports gamer feel better, but in general we (us OS'ers) really don't matter. We purchased the game all ready (if we were going to). They're looking at other sales down the line at this point.