Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Hey, I was the first to call him a punk yesterday for not coming out and talking to us, but as I was thinking about it, he was hired by 2K and he had to deal with team was already working on the game, he was just an addition. He was wrong for lying to us about the game running smooth and what not, and he is accountable for that no doubt, but it's not his fault he got stuck with the crappy team of KUSH, they need to go. All can forgiven if they patch the game good and do it fast.

[UNLV_1999]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

He would say that it is a 3 year project/plan. I am waiting to pick this up once the price drops. $60 seems is a lot for a game that has quite a few issues.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

He would say that it is a 3 year project/plan. I am waiting to pick this up once the price drops. $60 seems is a lot for a game that has quite a few issues.

don't count on a price drop anytime soon.

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Actually, I can tell you from personal experience that demanding accountability from anyone from a development company will more likely get you crucified by your fellow board members to stop "focusing on the past and help make the next game better" or worse, get you banned.

Apparently there is never a time to hold game developers accountable for their product even if it always seems like it is the right time to hand them another $60 for an incomplete game.

Why don't you "hold accountable" the bigwigs at Take Two or EA who perpetuate this system? Or the game-buying public who enables it by continually buying substandard (according to them) games?

This is why I always interject into the threads that claim Ben "built" MVP. You guys assign him way too much credit (and blame) for stuff he's not ultimately responsible for.

[baa7]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

even if it always seems like it is the right time to hand them another $60 for an incomplete game.

Handing them $60 for an unfinished game would be your issue, not theirs.

[myghty]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Handing them $60 for an unfinished game would be your issue, not theirs.

Haha please tell me you're not serious.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

So would I. Would I ask for a public apology from the guy running the projector? No.

Funny you mention this, when I lived in California (2 or 3 years ago) my wife and I went to a movie. Something happend (the reel to reel ate the film or something) and the screen froze. You could tell by the shadows and what not that they were trying to fix it. After about 15 minutes, someone (manager, assistant manager, etc.) came in and announced that they were having problems with their machine and appologized for the wait. He said that if we wanted we could wait about 15 minutes and go to another theatre or we could get a refund. My wife and I stayed around and watched the movie. At the end of the movie as we walked out, everyone received a free pass.

This past weekend, a group of about 10 went to Buffalo Wild Wings for dinner and drinks. We waited around while about 3 or 4 tables around us were served their food. The manager came over without us ever complaining and appologized. After about another 10 minutes, he came back and personally brought us our food. He then brought us our check, appologized one more time and ended up comping all of our drinks.

I was a producer at EA for several years. Do you know what a producer's job is? To get Product X on shelves by Date Y, making sure that the Metacritic rating doesn't drop below Z. No excuses. No matter what hours are required. And then we strive for the best quality possible. If our game sucked because our budget was cut in half, or our best programmers were "moved" onto FIFA, or some key people weren't good at their jobs (or sick, or quit), we can't go online and say so unless we want to get fired. We're not even allowed to say, "Our game sucked (reasons withheld)" unless we get permission to do so. Guess how often that happens.

This explains alot. Who cares about the customer, satisfy the gaming sites who will rate the game and take no accountablity. It's very clear now.

I should change the title of this thread to "Will there be any kind of follow up with Take Two/2K?" since from your experience, the flaws and shortcomings of the game aren't necessarily the fault of those who actually oversee the product.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Handing them $60 for an unfinished game would be your issue, not theirs.

I agree that the the buyer has an enourmous sense of accountablitly. No one has to have a game on the first day and it's obvious the developers aren't going to announce shortfalls when they are trying to market a game.

However when there is obvious deception (60 FPS), then all bets are off. He didn't say 60 FPS if you buy the game and have internet access to download a patch in a few weeks/months. Because of this, there was obvious deception, whether intentional or not.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

This is why I always interject into the threads that claim Ben "built" MVP. You guys assign him way too much credit (and blame) for stuff he's not ultimately responsible for.

You see this simply because he is the primary spokesperson for this game. He does the interviews, the promo's, etc. As the face of the game, you're going to take the praise and the criticism. Whether that's fair or not is definitely debatable, but it pretty much works for everything.

When you get cold food at a restaurant, you ask to the see the manager, not the cook and not the owner. When you receive bad service at a store, you ask to speak to the manager. When a team plays a crappy game, you blame the coach, not the coordinator or the players. It just comes with the territory and I'm sure he is paid accordingly.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Funny you mention this, when I lived in California (2 or 3 years ago) my wife and I went to a movie.

<SNIP>

This past weekend, a group of about 10 went to Buffalo Wild Wings for dinner and drinks.

<SNIP>

This explains alot. Who cares about the customer, satisfy the gaming sites who will rate the game and take no accountablity. It's very clear now.

That's the big problem with a lot of things...people screw up, and then refuse to be accountable for it. Instead they either pass the buck or remain quiet in hopes that it will pass and people will forget. Those two incidents you recounted are how a situation should be handled, but unfortunately usually aren't.

I think a good parallel is the game PES 2008. The guy who creates that game has publicly acknowledged it's subpar and stated his disappointment in it. That alone, in my mind, earns him my respect. He's admitted it was a mistake and promised that future editions will be much improved. I realize that's not the norm...but it should be.

I think Brinkman should be held to task. He flat out lied about the framerate being fixed when in fact it's the same and maybe even worse than last years.

I also find it funny that KushGamer was so evident on these boards right up until release, and not hide nor hair has been seen of him since. I have to question if he was actually who he said he was and not some plant from 2K to stir up some hype.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Mods, feel free to close this. This went away from the direction I had intended. Basically, in short, all I was hoping was for someone who has the pull to try and get a follow up interview with BB (or anyone else) regarding some of the obvious mistakes in the game.

Thanks.

[NEWYORICAN]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

As with any product, games are buyer-beware, folks. Read reviews. Rent games. Return games you don't like. Criticize a game's flaws or lack of features. Demand better products. All good. If you want Ben (or any other developer) to come into one of these forums and be "publically humiliated" because you don't think the game was as good as advertised, you're out of line.

You are correct sir!!. I agree with you here. We are responsible for what we buy. If we don't like it we can return it. By asking Ben to come here and be bombarded with question is a no no.

I can't imagine what the poor guy went through with the presures he must have had running his team. I still say it is not his fault. He has bosses probably on his back saying "Is it done yet"? get going, we need that soon, I need to see it!

Hope he's ok and stays in his job regardless what happens to 2K8. He's not done yet!...He still has 2K9 to do! Good Luck Ben

peace
Ernesto

[Zackdawg]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Since this thread is headed toward lockup, I thought I'd post one last thought.

I agree totally with the last few posts that it is on us the consumers to demand better. More importantly, as a community of serious sports gamers, it is on us to raise the bar. We can debate all we want whether the incomplete product that is 2k8 is the developer's fault, or the company's fault, or something else. I have my own opinions and I won't press them further. But is anyone really happy with how next-gen sports gaming has gone so far?

The truth is that we are at some fault ourselves, as a community of serious sports gamers. We not only fall for the hype, we help pump it up. The tenor of this section of the board about this game the week before release bordered on frothing. Skepticism was an increasingly hard commodity to find, even despite the fact that major bugs were never addressed in the 2k7 game.

Imagine if we, the core community for these games, instead of rushing to buy the day of release waited a month. We rented instead and built a consensus about the quality of game. That we greeted developers and company representatives hyping their next release with a healthy sense of skepticism when they visited this website. And that we demanded that the websites and magazines that cover our hobby ask tougher questions and provide fewer puff "preview" pieces.

On that last point, they could start by asking any Kush or Take Two person hyping 2k9, when they start hyping 2k9, what happened with the release of 2k8.

Maybe this change in attitude within our community could change the market a little, maybe it can't -- but it can, at the very least, occasionally save us $60 when a game isn't ready for prime time. A life-long first day buyer of sports games myself, I rented 2k8 instead of buying -- and I know now it will be quite a while, if ever, that I'll buy this game. You won't see me first in line for Madden this year either.

We're gamers; it is not our responsibility to buy incomplete games to fund someone's three-year development plan or to help continue the development cycle. The minute we get off the merry-go-round of the yearly product releases may be the first step to actually getting better games.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

If we don't like it we can return it.

What place allows you to buy a game and then return it "because you don't like it"? Maybe I'm missing something, but I know of no place that will give you a full refund just because you didn't like the game.

I can't imagine what the poor guy went through with the presures he must have had running his team. I still say it is not his fault.

So you have no problem with him flat out lying about the game and it's framerate issues? Even if he was told "Tell them the framerate is fixed, or you are fired!" by his bosses, that's wrong.

Ya know, he could eliminate a lot of issues by simply releasing a statement along the lines of "we know there are issues with X, Y, Z, etc and will have them fixed with a patch we hope to have out by X-date." But by remaining silent, all he does is foster speculation.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

On that last point, they could start by asking any Kush or Take Two person hyping 2k9, when they start hyping 2k9, what happened with the release of 2k8.

That was kind of my goal now. But, putting any sort of pressure or making any sort of "stance" at that point will be far too late for 2K9. This year, we didn't really start seeing any info until January/early Feb. By then the game is pretty much done and any efforts at that poing are being directed to 2K10.