Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

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  • bakesalee
    Pro
    • Feb 2008
    • 596

    #1

    Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

    I hope this isn't overkill, but I'd like to publicly protest my disdain for the direction my once beloved series has taken. I fell in love with 2k baseball in 2002, and have bought a copy every year until this one. The following are things that have been removed from years past versions, even though I considered them "the little things." You know, a detail orientated franchise that dazzled you.

    -No doubter home run cam. This was in 2k3. What explanation if any could there be for removing something that looked and worked so beautifully?

    -Foul ball cam. Another 2k3 and probably 2k4 deal. I remember the ball being hit high into the sky in front of some stadium lights as the camera followed it. Wait? Is this a baseball game on TV or is this a video game? It's 2k baseball of course! This was replaced in 2k5 with an awkward side view of the batter, and you could see the oversized Miracle-Grow fed grapefruit of a ball being rifled through the fans above either dugout.

    -Cursor hitting, gone. Zone hitting, gone. Why should you utilize precision, strategy, and hand-eye coordination when you can use the stick. Sure it's got less control, but it's new. If you want to force the gimmick down our throats to add another bullet point on your new and improved list, fine, but don't discard the controls I've been using on your franchise since 2002.

    -Fun. Back in 2001 all my friends and I would complain that there wasn't a "fun" baseball game to play. Well I bought Sega's Home Run King in 2002, and WSB2k3 in 2003 and we were off. Finally we had beautiful baseball games that were a blast to play, and easy enough for newcomers to learn and join the sessions we had. We probably played more hours of 2k3 that year then we put in at our jobs. Everyone would come over to my place and we'd ball - forever. Now, no one could care less. They see the hitting system has been stripped off it's functionality, have to get used to the new time your swing step, and they're just like "what can we just pop in and immediately start playing instead?" The fun factor is gone. The most fun games are simple ones with subtle things you learn along the way, loaded with detail, and high on presentation.

    Another complaint on swing stick, against the "it's realistic" argument. How about after a ball is hit into play, we make you press the left thumb stick up to move the left foot, and vice versa for the right foot. So your thumbs have to do a little up-down, up-down times 30 to run to first base every time. That'd be more realistic wouldn't it? It'd be ridiculous. But it's all for innovation right? All players step before they swing, but why incorporate this into the game? All players run to first base after making contact with the ball, but it'd be a little redundant to twiddle your thumbs using the L and R sticks really fast to run.

    I know this seems crazy to complain over a video game, but hear me out if you're still with me. I am a sports gamer. You hijack my baseball series and what do I got left? A game system and 2k baseball has been the cornerstone of relaxing with friends for years and years. But now that's all done. When you lower the quality of 2k baseball, you're also removing the hours upon hours of truly fun time I had getting to relax with friends. It's getting harder and harder to even justify spending hundreds of dollars on a system and games with the constant down slope in rewards that it's giving back. I basically got a $400 Grand Theft Auto machine at this point. That's pathetic. The entire reason I even invested in this new generations console was because I took it for granted that the fun and exciting gameplay we experienced between 2001-2005 would appear in this generations console, only with more possibilities (graphics, physics, etc). Well this generation so far has taken a dump on me. If I liked first person shooters I could cope, but I don't. I've always enjoyed the simplistic rules of sports games matched with the strategy per each sport, the gameplay, and what I used to be able to depend on, strides in graphics from one year to the next. All this is gone.

    You scored a 9.1 rating in 2003, and a 10 in my mind. Every year your score has little by little gone down and down. Who the hell is controlling this ship? When McDonald's finds a formula that makes you hooked on their fries, they don't change it do they? Sure they might make other things taste better or add new things, but they don't take the fries off the menu or start over. When your best friend is also your pot hook up, you don't suddenly decide to go to the ghetto in the middle of the night and try buying from a stranger just to see how that might work out differently. Go with what you know, what works. Or turn a working thing upside down just for the hell of it.
    Last edited by bakesalee; 03-12-2008, 05:42 AM.
  • baa7
    Banned
    • Jul 2004
    • 11691

    #2
    Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

    Originally posted by bakesalee
    Cursor hitting, gone. Zone hitting, gone. Why should you utilize precision, strategy, and hand-eye coordination when you can use the stick. Sure it's got less control, but it's new. If you want to force the gimmick down our throats to add another bullet point on your new and improved list, fine, but don't discard the controls I've been using on your franchise since 2002.
    The addition of the swing-stick did not mean zone hitting had to be removed. I would love to see swing-stick zone hitting, and there's no reason they can't add that as an option. As it is now, I simply can't get into this series with its inanely simple timed-only hitting system. I had fun pitching in 2K8, but when it came time to hit, I completely lost interest in the game - just no skill required whatsoever.

    Along with questions about why they removed some of this stuff in the first place, is why they made pitching so intensely challenging yet added a hitting system that wouldn't challenge a 7 year old.

    Comment

    • catcatch22
      Or should I
      • Sep 2003
      • 3378

      #3
      Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

      I agree with the Cursor. I've been cursor hitting since World Series 95.

      Comment

      • sportyguyfl31
        MVP
        • Nov 2005
        • 4745

        #4
        Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

        I've been unable to find how I can see in game what % of pitches i am throwing. this was in 2k7. I play with VIP on so the CPu adjusts to what you are doing..so its important for me to see what % of my pitches are fastballs, curves, etc...

        Comment

        • jaxpac
          Rookie
          • Sep 2003
          • 93

          #5
          Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

          Originally posted by baa7
          The addition of the swing-stick did not mean zone hitting had to be removed. I would love to see swing-stick zone hitting, and there's no reason they can't add that as an option. As it is now, I simply can't get into this series with its inanely simple timed-only hitting system. I had fun pitching in 2K8, but when it came time to hit, I completely lost interest in the game - just no skill required whatsoever.
          Yes. I agree completely. I didn't really like cursor hitting, but I liked the HH hitting system where you aim your swing.

          Currently it doesn't even matter what pitch the pitcher throws as long as you time the swing well your guy will hit it. So you could be totally fooled by a curveball but as long as the swing is timed correctly you hit it. It's pretty easy to see why people get tired of this game pretty quickly and why the pitch counts are not realistic.

          Even the pitching is not much better. I don't see how it is any more realistic or fun to hit the right joystick in 3 different ways timed to a pitching meter than it is to hit 3 buttons timed to a meter. Either way it is just hitting some input timed to a meter. It's like saying using the "B" button for bunt is more realistic because bunt starts with the letter "B."

          I agree with OP as well. 2k3 was a high point in the series. I liked it a lot more than ASB at the time. But back then there was still high heat as an option so I didn't spend as much time with 2k3. But since then all we have are about 10 added gimmicks that supposedly make the game more realistic simply by changing the button that you press to do different things. That and dumbing down hitting to the level of tecmo baseball.

          Comment

          • Cardot
            I'm not on InstantFace.
            • Feb 2003
            • 6164

            #6
            Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

            Originally posted by bakesalee
            The fun factor is gone. The most fun games are simple ones with subtle things you learn along the way, loaded with detail, and high on presentation.
            Great comment. I agree 100%. I like games that are easy to pick up and play. It is great if they have more advanced features for when you want to take your game up a level. But in the last few years, it seems that tutorials and training are mandatory to even play sports games.

            Comment

            • NEWYORICAN
              Banned
              • Feb 2003
              • 735

              #7
              Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

              Great post bakesalee!..I feel the same way!...

              Comment

              • ehh
                Hall Of Fame
                • Mar 2003
                • 28962

                #8
                Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                The game went straight downhill after 2K4 when BlueShift or whoever it was stopped being involved w. the game.
                "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                Comment

                • baa7
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 11691

                  #9
                  Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                  Originally posted by ehh
                  The game went straight downhill after 2K4
                  IMO, it went slightly sideways with 2K5. That game's zone hitting system was the best ever in any baseball game, period (IMO again). Why oh why they ever took that out...

                  And if I ever find out who made the bone-headed game development decision to remove True Aim hitting from the 2K series, I'll drive 5000 miles if I have to just to punch him in the nose. And I've already got the Huggies waiting in car, so I'm ready to go at the drop of a hat.

                  Comment

                  • lefty1117
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 60

                    #10
                    Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                    Originally posted by sportyguyfl31
                    I've been unable to find how I can see in game what % of pitches i am throwing. this was in 2k7. I play with VIP on so the CPu adjusts to what you are doing..so its important for me to see what % of my pitches are fastballs, curves, etc...
                    I remember that ... thought it was a left D-pad option at first but now I remember that it only shows you pitch counts and %K/grounder/fly

                    I'll have to look into that more tonight ... maybe it's a right trigger option. One thing's for sure, the documentation that comes with the game is terrible.

                    Comment

                    • NEWYORICAN
                      Banned
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 735

                      #11
                      Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                      Originally posted by baa7
                      And I've already got the Huggies waiting in car, so I'm ready to go at the drop of a hat.

                      LOL!!, don't forget to take that Nasa Astronaut women with you to keep you company!!

                      Comment

                      • maverick3176
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 363

                        #12
                        Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                        Originally posted by bakesalee
                        I hope this isn't overkill, but I'd like to publicly protest my disdain for the direction my once beloved series has taken. I fell in love with 2k baseball in 2002, and have bought a copy every year until this one. The following are things that have been removed from years past versions, even though I considered them "the little things." You know, a detail orientated franchise that dazzled you.

                        -No doubter home run cam. This was in 2k3. What explanation if any could there be for removing something that looked and worked so beautifully?

                        -Foul ball cam. Another 2k3 and probably 2k4 deal. I remember the ball being hit high into the sky in front of some stadium lights as the camera followed it. Wait? Is this a baseball game on TV or is this a video game? It's 2k baseball of course! This was replaced in 2k5 with an awkward side view of the batter, and you could see the oversized Miracle-Grow fed grapefruit of a ball being rifled through the fans above either dugout.

                        -Cursor hitting, gone. Zone hitting, gone. Why should you utilize precision, strategy, and hand-eye coordination when you can use the stick. Sure it's got less control, but it's new. If you want to force the gimmick down our throats to add another bullet point on your new and improved list, fine, but don't discard the controls I've been using on your franchise since 2002.

                        -Fun. Back in 2001 all my friends and I would complain that there wasn't a "fun" baseball game to play. Well I bought Sega's Home Run King in 2002, and WSB2k3 in 2003 and we were off. Finally we had beautiful baseball games that were a blast to play, and easy enough for newcomers to learn and join the sessions we had. We probably played more hours of 2k3 that year then we put in at our jobs. Everyone would come over to my place and we'd ball - forever. Now, no one could care less. They see the hitting system has been stripped off it's functionality, have to get used to the new time your swing step, and they're just like "what can we just pop in and immediately start playing instead?" The fun factor is gone. The most fun games are simple ones with subtle things you learn along the way, loaded with detail, and high on presentation.

                        Another complaint on swing stick, against the "it's realistic" argument. How about after a ball is hit into play, we make you press the left thumb stick up to move the left foot, and vice versa for the right foot. So your thumbs have to do a little up-down, up-down times 30 to run to first base every time. That'd be more realistic wouldn't it? It'd be ridiculous. But it's all for innovation right? All players step before they swing, but why incorporate this into the game? All players run to first base after making contact with the ball, but it'd be a little redundant to twiddle your thumbs using the L and R sticks really fast to run.

                        I know this seems crazy to complain over a video game, but hear me out if you're still with me. I am a sports gamer. You hijack my baseball series and what do I got left? A game system and 2k baseball has been the cornerstone of relaxing with friends for years and years. But now that's all done. When you lower the quality of 2k baseball, you're also removing the hours upon hours of truly fun time I had getting to relax with friends. It's getting harder and harder to even justify spending hundreds of dollars on a system and games with the constant down slope in rewards that it's giving back. I basically got a $400 Grand Theft Auto machine at this point. That's pathetic. The entire reason I even invested in this new generations console was because I took it for granted that the fun and exciting gameplay we experienced between 2001-2005 would appear in this generations console, only with more possibilities (graphics, physics, etc). Well this generation so far has taken a dump on me. If I liked first person shooters I could cope, but I don't. I've always enjoyed the simplistic rules of sports games matched with the strategy per each sport, the gameplay, and what I used to be able to depend on, strides in graphics from one year to the next. All this is gone.

                        You scored a 9.1 rating in 2003, and a 10 in my mind. Every year your score has little by little gone down and down. Who the hell is controlling this ship? When McDonald's finds a formula that makes you hooked on their fries, they don't change it do they? Sure they might make other things taste better or add new things, but they don't take the fries off the menu or start over. When your best friend is also your pot hook up, you don't suddenly decide to go to the ghetto in the middle of the night and try buying from a stranger just to see how that might work out differently. Go with what you know, what works. Or turn a working thing upside down just for the hell of it.
                        OMG...that was AWSOME man. That is EXACTLY the way I feel. I will say that in 2K3 if you had asked me what the next gen game would be like if they kept improving on it...well I would have said it would be almost EXACTLY the way the Show is. If you had asked me...where do you think the crappy MVP 03 would look like back then i would have thought it would be where 2K8 is now. The Show brings the fun back. This game...really did us dirty

                        Comment

                        • maverick3176
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 363

                          #13
                          Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                          Originally posted by baa7
                          IMO, it went slightly sideways with 2K5. That game's zone hitting system was the best ever in any baseball game, period (IMO again). Why oh why they ever took that out...

                          And if I ever find out who made the bone-headed game development decision to remove True Aim hitting from the 2K series, I'll drive 5000 miles if I have to just to punch him in the nose. And I've already got the Huggies waiting in car, so I'm ready to go at the drop of a hat.

                          I feel you on this. 2K5 was a different direction. It wasnt bad..but different. the true aim in that game was great...the graphics were such a great leap. The "slamzone" was horrible though. Although the game changed and needed tweaking it was still headed in the right direction.

                          The guy who said "I have an idea, how about we make hitting just timing" should be shot. It KILLED the series. 2K6 was just horrible and they are still recovering from that bad turn. They need to scrap this game all together....give it a new name and make a new engine....call "The Big Leagues 2K9" the features should be:

                          Big League hitting (swing stick + zone)
                          Big League Pitching (simplified version of the current pitching, less control...fewer meatballs)
                          Big League feilding (meter throws with buttons, rt analog dives)
                          Big league signature (sig follow throughs)
                          Big League Play (players play like actual players ie pull hitters pull etc.

                          Comment

                          • jaxpac
                            Rookie
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 93

                            #14
                            Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                            How is it they can wreck hitting in so many games? it should be simple. Up on the left stick and you swing in the upper part of the zone. Left and you extend to the outer half of the plate. If you swing above the ball you hit a grounder, below the ball for afly ball, and right on for hard liner. Simple, realistic, allows for good pitcher/batter confrontations. Basically this is what they had achieved with the high heat series. As opposed to the current system of just time your swing, who cares what pitch is thrown or where it is, just time your swing...

                            Comment

                            • catcatch22
                              Or should I
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 3378

                              #15
                              Re: Things inexplicably removed from my beloved 2k series through the years

                              Bring back cursor hitting. It's only been with this ever changing franchise some 10 years. I hated High Heat style of hitting. I had no control if I wanted to try to hit a fly ball, hit it the other way or go for a baltimore chop. I want more control not less.

                              With the cursor I can try to upper cut a ball, or try to hit on top of it to get a grounder. No other system gives you that type of control and difficulty all in one.

                              Comment

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