A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

[Trevytrev11]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

There are already one or two sliders which sort of drive the baserunners awareness on the base paths.

I don't know how into detail they get in terms of coding, but look at any player card in 2K8 and there are/is a slider for something along the lines of attentiveness/awareness.

Yeah, I think there is (or used to be) a baserunnng awareness slider/rating.

Seems an awareness rating coupled with an agressiveness rating would lead to those players that stretch doubles into triples and take two bases on a single when others play only take one.

While speed, IMO, is the most important factor of stretching a double into a triple, the player also has to haul *** out of the box. Some players hit a ball to the gap and immediately think double and by the time they round first, they are already in a trot to walk into second. Other guys see that same hit and have to slam on the breaks around second or keep going into third.

[Lisa_Bonami]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

The more I think about it and the more I read the posts, I'm thinking baseball video games could actually benefit from another Ratings modifier to sit along side CONTACT and POWER. I think the rating could be PLACEMENT. Im wondering if ther is enough distiction between the best and worst hitters that would make this a worthwhile and effective rating?

So I guess my question out to you all is, do you think there are players in MLB that have a higher degree of control over their hit PLACEMENT? Could these also be variables that seperate the players that get higher frequency extra base hits? And here's some more food for thought....Is it JUST the fastest players in baseball with the highest Doubles numbers over the years OR could it also be average speed players with better gap control over their hitting? (Placement)

Just something to think about to get the juices flowing this morning

[baa7]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

The more I think about it and the more I read the posts, I'm thinking baseball video games could actually benefit from another Ratings modifier to sit along side CONTACT and POWER. I think the rating could be PLACEMENT.

It's a great idea. Tony Gwynn was the best at placing a ball that I've seen. Supposedly Ty Cobb was a master at it. It's definitely a skill. An option would be to have a "hit for placement" swing option. FPS Baseball 98 had three swing types: power, normal and contact.

[faster]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

The more I think about it and the more I read the posts, I'm thinking baseball video games could actually benefit from another Ratings modifier to sit along side CONTACT and POWER. I think the rating could be PLACEMENT. Im wondering if ther is enough distiction between the best and worst hitters that would make this a worthwhile and effective rating?

So I guess my question out to you all is, do you think there are players in MLB that have a higher degree of control over their hit PLACEMENT? Could these also be variables that seperate the players that get higher frequency extra base hits? And here's some more food for thought....Is it JUST the fastest players in baseball with the highest Doubles numbers over the years OR could it also be average speed players with better gap control over their hitting? (Placement)

Just something to think about to get the juices flowing this morning

Doubles are not always about speed. In fact, doubles are less about speed and more about power. Triples are where speed and baserunning skill seems to be more relevant.

Players absolutely can control where the ball goes. However, it's not easy. Players that can hit the ball the other way are generally better overall hitters. They hit it where it's pitched. A player can also hit to opposite field on any pitch (most) but that's not very easy.

Take, for example, Andruw Jones, a favorite player of mine, but he has tremendous difficulty with curveballs and he tries to pull everything. He doesn't let the pitch come to him and react. Because of this, you'll note he pulls just about everything. If he didn't, he would probably add 25 points to his batting average, if not more.

If you look at doubles hitters, I'm going to guess that you're going to have guys that are good overall hitters.... guys that hit the ball wherever it's pitched and aren't stricly pull hitters. They are also guys with good power. Adding to that, they are going to be players that don't tend to strikeout or pop the up either (I'm guessing Ryan Howard is not a big doubles hitter).

Triples are purely a product of speed and good baserunning. Most of these players are also good overall hitters because they have to be. These players usually lack power but have good contact ratings.

Just my opinions but I think they're reasonably valid.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

And here's some more food for thought....Is it JUST the fastest players in baseball with the highest Doubles numbers over the years OR could it also be average speed players with better gap control over their hitting? (Placement)

I think it is more of the latter. I think most doubles are stand up doubles and not singles stretched into doubles. Typically guys that his 30-40 HR's also have 30 or so doubles. If you look at every player that hit 30 or more HR's last year (25 players), each of them also had at least 20 doubles with the exception of two (who each had 19).

When you look at doubles hitters, you typically see guys who are good hitters, but are on the the lower rung of the power scale, the guys who hit 15-20 HR's a year, but also probably hit for a higher average than many of the power guys. They sacrafice a little of their power for better contact, which keep some of those HR's in the park; in the gaps or over heads.

You'll probably always see more guys hitting .240-.250 with 40 HR's than you will see with 40 doubles.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

Doubles are not always about speed. In fact, doubles are less about speed and more about power. Triples are where speed and baserunning skill seems to be more relevant.

Players absolutely can control where the ball goes. However, it's not easy. Players that can hit the ball the other way are generally better overall hitters. They hit it where it's pitched. A player can also hit to opposite field on any pitch (most) but that's not very easy.

Take, for example, Andruw Jones, a favorite player of mine, but he has tremendous difficulty with curveballs and he tries to pull everything. He doesn't let the pitch come to him and react. Because of this, you'll note he pulls just about everything. If he didn't, he would probably add 25 points to his batting average, if not more.

If you look at doubles hitters, I'm going to guess that you're going to have guys that are good overall hitters.... guys that hit the ball wherever it's pitched and aren't stricly pull hitters. They are also guys with good power. Adding to that, they are going to be players that don't tend to strikeout or pop the up either (I'm guessing Ryan Howard is not a big doubles hitter).

Triples are purely a product of speed and good baserunning. Most of these players are also good overall hitters because they have to be. These players usually lack power but have good contact ratings.

Just my opinions but I think they're reasonably valid.

I agree with this 100%.

[JBH3]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

The more I think about it and the more I read the posts, I'm thinking baseball video games could actually benefit from another Ratings modifier to sit along side CONTACT and POWER. I think the rating could be PLACEMENT. Im wondering if ther is enough distiction between the best and worst hitters that would make this a worthwhile and effective rating?

So I guess my question out to you all is, do you think there are players in MLB that have a higher degree of control over their hit PLACEMENT? Could these also be variables that seperate the players that get higher frequency extra base hits? And here's some more food for thought....Is it JUST the fastest players in baseball with the highest Doubles numbers over the years OR could it also be average speed players with better gap control over their hitting? (Placement)

Just something to think about to get the juices flowing this morning

Vladimir Guerrero is a great example of another type of hitter...a "bad ball" hitter.

Which could completely open up different hitter types as well if there is a rating given to guys who dig a ball out of the dirt for a HR. Manny is another good example.

I saw him slam a HR during the NLDS @ Wrigley which probably only a hand few of hitters could even make contact w/.

[Lisa_Bonami]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

So do you guys think that an added RATING or ATTRIBUTE for hitting called PLACEMENT (or whatever they would name it) would add more realism and distinction to each hitter?

If so, perhaps I can suggest this during my next 2k feedback session.


Im also adding the suggestion of the ability to IMPORT FRANCHISE feature that allows you to import older franchises from previous versions of the game like MLB 2K6, 2K7, 2k8, etc. This way you dont have to completely start over every year a new version of the game comes out.

And finally, I think we need a SIM to INNING feature so we can jump in and out of any part of the game and play it without having to go thru all kinds of load screens and pre rendered Blimp Cam views. Just a jump in and play immediately option very much like Madden 09 has....its very convenient and quick

[JoshCA916]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

So do you guys think that an added RATING or ATTRIBUTE for hitting called PLACEMENT (or whatever they would name it) would add more realism and distinction to each hitter?

If so, perhaps I can suggest this during my next 2k feedback session.


Im also adding the suggestion of the ability to IMPORT FRANCHISE feature that allows you to import older franchises from previous versions of the game like MLB 2K6, 2K7, 2k8, etc. This way you dont have to completely start over every year a new version of the game comes out.

And finally, I think we need a SIM to INNING feature so we can jump in and out of any part of the game and play it without having to go thru all kinds of load screens and pre rendered Blimp Cam views. Just a jump in and play immediately option very much like Madden 09 has....its very convenient and quick

i am sorry i know i have only been around these forums for a little over a year but what kind of pull do you have with 2k to even try to get these features implemented?

[brendanrfoley]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

Lisa,

I know you've also wondered about hits being scripted. Just to play devil's advocate... maybe hits aren't scripted. Maybe shortcomings in the hitting engine only allowed a narrow range of hit types.

Just food for thought.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

So do you guys think that an added RATING or ATTRIBUTE for hitting called PLACEMENT (or whatever they would name it) would add more realism and distinction to each hitter?

I don't think so. I think the hitters that actually try and place the ball and are successful are few and far between. Tony Gwynn and maybe Wade Boggs are the only ones who come to mind in recent history. Guys like Pujosl can go well with a pitch better than anyone else, but going with a pitch is different than aiming or placing the ball in a spot.

Most hitters in normal situations are up there to get a pitch they can drive and then they try and put the best swing possible on it. What that pitch is depends on the hitter, the pitcher and the situation and that pitch often determines the swing. A fastball up and in is going to try and be pulled and a fastball up and away is going be tried and driven the other way.

I don't think many hitters go up with the idea that I want to hit a double to the left center gap. They really just want a pitch in their zone that they feel they can drive.

Also what would that placement rating do, if the game didn't know what you were trying to do with the pitch. How would the game know you wanted to slap a single between short and third vs hitting something to right center?

If anything a rating on how well a hitter pulls the ball, goes up the middle or hits to the opposite field with authority would be better. Then you try and hit to the hitters strenghts. You lay off pitches away early in the count if you know your hitter can't do anything with it. If you had a hitter that had a pull rating of 90 and center rating of 70 and a opposite rating of 40, you're going to try and sit on pitches middle in unless either the situation dictates going to right field or you have 2 strikes.

[JBH3]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

So do you guys think that an added RATING or ATTRIBUTE for hitting called PLACEMENT (or whatever they would name it) would add more realism and distinction to each hitter?

If so, perhaps I can suggest this during my next 2k feedback session.


Im also adding the suggestion of the ability to IMPORT FRANCHISE feature that allows you to import older franchises from previous versions of the game like MLB 2K6, 2K7, 2k8, etc. This way you dont have to completely start over every year a new version of the game comes out.

And finally, I think we need a SIM to INNING feature so we can jump in and out of any part of the game and play it without having to go thru all kinds of load screens and pre rendered Blimp Cam views. Just a jump in and play immediately option very much like Madden 09 has....its very convenient and quick

The bolded would be awesome if that ever came to fruition.

Sim to inning is a nice idea too, but being able to import my franchise to the new installation/title would be a godsend.

[Lisa_Bonami]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

Thanks and I agree....Im not certain why an IMPORT Franchise isnt a standard feature by now with ALL Sports Video Games being that they come out with new versions of their games every single year which pretty much makes even playing a Franchise pretty pointless unless you rush through it. (Only to start it all over again from the beginning like some twisted reoccurring dream in a Twilight Zone episode)


To the other fellow earlier, the extent of my 'PULL' with 2KSports is nothing more than a friendly relationship with the game designers of each of the sports games they make which simply started as a back and forth feedback/ideas communication that developed over the years. I have provided ideas in the past that they liked and our relationships grew...thats all. Nothing else. I dont have relatives that work for 2K or know 'high up' executives or anything exotic like that....i've just provided sensible ideas over the years. Thats it. nothing more.

[Lisa_Bonami]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

After playing 2K9 Demo (as well as 2K8 full game) the outfielder slow down /speed up variables on fly balls that the cpu compensates while chasing a ball down may also be a very indicative example of its predetermined and scripted hit results.

It seems as if the cpu applies varying degrees of animation speed and slow down to adjust the player's timing to arrive in time to make the catch. Which almost tips us off that this was determined to be a flyout from the moment it left the bat.

In contrast, the game should render that same fly ball and just allow the actual outfielder's speed and range ratings determine whether or not he can track down that same hit. If his speed allows him to get into range, his range rating should allow him to reach for the ball and make the catch or drop it off his glove if his Fielding Rating is extremely low (dice roll).....OR his speed should allow him to get within the vicinity and a low range should just prevent him from reaching it. Or any other combination of these variables. Thats how I would think it should work without any scripting occuring right off the contact of the bat.

I hope this makes sense

[Trevytrev11]

Re: A STAT engine question about 2K9...Deep Thinkers Only...

Thats how I would think it should work without any scripting occuring right off the contact of the bat.

I hope this makes sense

I agree. This has been a problem for years and I'm not sure if it is scripted per se, or more that they are just trying to set up the computer to go into a certain animation. I do agree that because of this there are times when you know that a ball is going to be caught because the of the change in running animation, specifically running in place. I can remember this on the original World Series Baseball on the Dream Cast as it was much more obvious as a player would literally run full speed and then all of a sudden run in place for a second so that he could catch the ball in a certain animation.

I noticed in 2K7 and 2K8 that is was very rare that a AI player would make a catch that wasn't on the run in the OF. They would change the speed of the player so that almost single time he would catch the ball on the run. Even if the ball was a high flyball only a few feet away, instead of just shuffling under it, he would run very slow and then at the last second kind of bust into the catch on the run animation.

That's the one bad thing about having all of these animations compared to say baseball stars when you just had to collide with the ball and there was no "set up". It wasn't as pretty, but it never felt canned.

When I say it's not scripted, I'm saying I don't think it was predetermined that once you decided to swing, that was going to be the outcome (though as of late from a few different posts, I'm no longer sure about this), I'm more saying once it was determined the outfielder was going to get to the ball, the game then adjusted the outfielders speed/route to make for a certain animation.