An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

[MacDaddy]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I'm a huge Maddux fan, but he made his fair share of mistakes over his career as well and you would know it just by his body language. You would never have to see the pitch cross the plate and know he messed up because he would turn and yell out the f-word. He definitely did it better than most anyone else and he's definitely the exception to the rule, but it wasn't a shocker to see one of his patented two seam fastballs tail back over the middle half of the plate.

Well i'm certainly not arguing that Maddux hit it perfect EVERY time, and thats not what the thread is talking about. The argument is that when the pitcher "max's out" in the game, or "makes a perfect pitch" in real life, that the accuracy is pin point to where they had intended.

When Maddux is perfect, at least in these later stages in his career, i argue that he lands it on a dime almost every time that he is perfect.

Other guys not named Maddux may throw what they believe to be a perfect pitch mechanics wise, and it still doesn't end up in the exact spot that they wanted.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Well i'm certainly not arguing that Maddux hit it perfect EVERY time, and thats not what the thread is talking about. The argument is that when the pitcher "max's out" in the game, or "makes a perfect pitch" in real life, that the accuracy is pin point to where they had intended.

When Maddux is perfect, at least in these later stages in his career, i argue that he lands it on a dime almost every time that he is perfect.

Other guys not named Maddux may throw what they believe to be a perfect pitch mechanics wise, and it still doesn't end up in the exact spot that they wanted.

I'll agree with that...when he's on, his margin for missing is much smaller than almost everyone elses.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I'll agree with that...when he's on, his margin for missing is much smaller than almost everyone elses.

Of course, Maddux had the privilege of one of the widest strike zones in all of baseball.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Of course, Maddux had the privilege of one of the widest strike zones in all of baseball.

Maybe, but he sure as hell earned it ...and since Questec was instituted, that has been negated a bit as umpires were graded on the accuracy of ball and strike calls. But if anyone else could hit their spot as consistant as he could, they could also trick the umpires into thinking that ball 2" outside was still on the corner. It also helps that he never showed up an umpire after a questionable call to turn him against him.

[Bahnzo]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I've put this idea out there on a few occasions, but it seems this could be accomplished by making the smallest possible location circle (a perfectly executed pitch) different sizes for different pitchers. A pitcher with Maddux type accuracy would have a circle just slightly larger than a baseball on a perfect fastball and a guy like Zito would have one that is still the size of basketball when he does everything right on his fastball. On a perfectly executed pitch, the ball would end up somewhere in that circle......then from the fastball to other pitches, the size of the circle would increase as almost all pitchers lose control and throw more to an area than a spot with a curveball or another breaking pitch.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking today. I was thinking something like the "hitter's eye" where the aiming spot would change size based on the pitcher and his control/fatigue/composure rating during the game. Throwing a "perfect" pitch would spot the ball within this zone while a non-perfect pitch would miss by varying degrees depending on how well you executed the pitch.

It does also make sense that a curveball should be harder to locate than a fastball.

Also, I'm not sure I like the idea that effort and accuracy of the pitch are both determined by how much you fill the meter. Seems to me it should be separate, and if anything more effort would make it tougher to throw an accurate pitch.

All these are good ideas for next year IMO, I sure hope someone from 2K happens by and takes note of this.

[JonahFalcon]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Apparently Bouton has never seen my boy Greg Maddux pitch. He routinely pops leather to blindfolded catchers in practice sessions. If that isn't pinpoint accuracy then i don't know what is.

But for 99.9% of pitchers, yeah i'd agree.

I've seen Maddux pitch, and I've seen a very generous strike zone. Heck, I've seen the K-Zone when he pitches. A lot of balls-turned-strikes.

Ditto Glavine.

[MacDaddy]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I've seen Maddux pitch, and I've seen a very generous strike zone. Heck, I've seen the K-Zone when he pitches. A lot of balls-turned-strikes.

Ditto Glavine.

All that is beside the point. We aren't talking about his ability to get balls called strikes. We are talking about his ability to hit a spot when he wants to, regardless of if he meant to throw a ball or strike.

[JonahFalcon]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

The other things is that pitchers often throw first pitch fastballs to get ahead in the count - and hitters usually take them, because they don't want to commit a first pitch out.

[MacDaddy]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

The other things is that pitchers often throw first pitch fastballs to get ahead in the count - and hitters usually take them, because they don't want to commit a first pitch out.

I still don't get what you are arguing. You are arguing a completely different point than what everyone is talking about in this thread.

In a vacuum, Greg Maddux has the ability to pitch to a location better than anyone in baseball right now. My original post in the thread was a light hearted jab at the author of the book posted by the original thread starter that, yes the mechanics in video games are accurate, at least true to Greg Maddux in that when he throws a perfect pitch mechanically, it goes exactly where he wants, instead of to a range of locations in an area.

[JonahFalcon]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I still don't get what you are arguing. You are arguing a completely different point than what everyone is talking about in this thread.

In a vacuum, Greg Maddux has the ability to pitch to a location better than anyone in baseball right now.

Yeah, thanks to umps who give him a few inches on either side of the plate. I've seen the K-Zone, and trust me, he has a wiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIiiiiiide strike zone.

Anyway, I'm not arguing strikes/balls here. I'm talking about hitter aggressiveness.

[MacDaddy]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Yeah, thanks to umps who give him a few inches on either side of the plate. I've seen the K-Zone, and trust me, he has a wiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIiiiiiide strike zone.

Anyway, I'm not arguing strikes/balls here. I'm talking about hitter aggressiveness.

Lol, you're still not getting it. My argument is speaking to his ability to pitch to blindfolded catchers in throwing sessions where he is nowhere near an ump...so I repeat, what are you talking about?

[Craigsca]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Accuracy like this used to be a problem for me in the Show last year. Even with a guy like Daniel Cabrera I could routinely throw strikes even when I tweaked the sliders. When you watch a REAL ballgame on TV, watch where the catcher puts his mitt - more often than not the pitcher can't hit the spot.

Admittedly it's only a demo but when I pitch with Kazmir I see a heck of a lot of deep counts, only because I can't spot the ball on the corners as I could in '08. While this hasn't been listed as a new feature for The Show '09 you can tell a huge difference and it makes the game that much better.

That being said, I know this is the 2K Sports section of the board, but I thought this was relevant.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Also, I'm not sure I like the idea that effort and accuracy of the pitch are both determined by how much you fill the meter. Seems to me it should be separate, and if anything more effort would make it tougher to throw an accurate pitch.

That's why the new system lacks and I'll be using the 2K8 system. Power, effectiveness and accuracy are basically all taken care of seperately.

[dblake15]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

So is the 3 pitching system in the game?? I did not have 2k8 last year, was that system good. Will it be good now without the meatball??

[SoxFan01605]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

So is the 3 pitching system in the game?? I did not have 2k8 last year, was that system good. Will it be good now without the meatball??

It wasn't perfect, as it could be clunky at times. If the same tweaks that we ssee in the "new" system were apllied though (including no meatball), then the 3-step process should be a more complete system than you see in the demo, yes.