Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

**Blzer** · 01-23-2010, 12:41 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Okay, Part 1 is up and Part 2 is coming up shortly. When up they may still be processing though.

In Part 1, I talk a little bit about influence hitting with the left stick. I don't really get deep with it and I think it got a bit confusing when I was talking about it, but here I made a post last year that better explains how influence should actually work:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039077509

As for pull versus push, it's all about where the pitch is and how you time it. If you try and put a pull swing on a pitch very late, you have a chance of breaking your bat (same with trying to go oppo on an inside pitch. If you try and pull an outside pitch, you're going to hit a 17-hopper to the short stop. That's just the way this game works, and if replicated correctly, influence should definitely be last-resort or situation-based. Granting great contact should be mostly in the timing, and if zone hitting is incorporated, in the placement of the bat on the ball.

**EnigmaNemesis** · 01-23-2010, 12:51 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Speak up Tiger ... I kid I kid.

I agree with your assessment as to why it is flawed. If you can not get HRs on contact swings, then the game's hitting borderlines on arcade side of things, and with no checks swings, even more so.

Especially with your assessment of contact guys versus power guys.

**Blzer** · 01-23-2010, 12:58 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by EnigmaNemesis

Speak up Tiger ... I kid I kid.

Haha just turn up the volume, Tiger is trying to remain in hiding.

Originally posted by EnigmaNemesis

I agree with your assessment as to why it is flawed. If you can not get HRs on contact swings, then the game's hitting borderlines on arcade side of things, and with no checks swings, even more so.

Especially with your assessment of contact guys versus power guys.

Well, keep in mind that Chase said with perfect contact the ball will be able to go out on a contact swing, but I'm guessing he means that the bigger guys are more prone to doing that. That's almost besides the point though, because contact with power guys is nearly irrelevant... people will always want to swing power with your Josh Hamilton's and Adam Dunn's. They won't ever want to go contact, so that could probably lead to a bunch of unwarranted home runs. I just say one swing type, and let the ratings determine what happens.

Part two is up, but still heavily processing. Once both videos have an HD icon, then that will mean they'll be completely done.

**PVarck31** · 01-23-2010, 01:15 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

We got the next Apex here! Keep chasin that truth blzer

Seriously though, I do agree with pretty much everything you said.

**500Feet** · 01-23-2010, 01:27 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I agree with you.. and I think the flaws you pointed out really hurt the gameplay.. Wow, your method is nice. I bet SCEA'll wanna use it when / if they choose to implement a swing stick, hah. It's on point, man. It would feel natural.

**Galvatron** · 01-23-2010, 01:37 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by Blzer

Haha just turn up the volume, Tiger is trying to remain in hiding.

Well, keep in mind that Chase said with perfect contact the ball will be able to go out on a contact swing, but I'm guessing he means that the bigger guys are more prone to doing that. That's almost besides the point though, because contact with power guys is nearly irrelevant... people will always want to swing power with your Josh Hamilton's and Adam Dunn's. They won't ever want to go contact, so that could probably lead to a bunch of unwarranted home runs. I just say one swing type, and let the ratings determine what happens.

Part two is up, but still heavily processing. Once both videos have an HD icon, then that will mean they'll be completely done.

I agree somewhat, but perhaps 2k wanted to apply the style of having 2 distinct swings ala the Show, only with the analog stick instead of buttons. It may result in the same or similar variables if it's implemented correctly, but i think that's where 2k has their work cut out for them...getting player ratings to directly affect what inputs are made by the user. If people will try to jack HRs repeatedly with power guys there has to be consequences of some sort as a result...such as in the Show.

**Blzer** · 01-23-2010, 01:42 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by kursekain

I agree somewhat, but perhaps 2k wanted to apply the style of having 2 distinct swings ala the Show, only with the analog stick instead of buttons. It may result in the same or similar variables if it's implemented correctly, but i think that's where 2k has their work cut out for them...getting player ratings to directly affect what inputs are made by the user. If people will try to jack HRs repeatedly with power guys there has to be consequences of some sort as a result...such as in the Show.

I would agree with you, but going by what Chase said, swinging for power with a contact guy will actually be almost incorrect to do, like they aren't designed to swing for power so you shouldn't do so with them. It's like putting a QB in on defense in a video game... just because they have a tackle rating and this is a possible in-game scenario, doesn't make anything better in the end.

I'm not sure if he said the same thing for contact with power guys, but what my point was that in The Show I'm able to change my sliders around so that I can make the contact swing my only kind of swing (add more power, decrease contact a bit). For this game, I can't just increase contact and lower power, because supposedly a power swing will be detrimental for contact players.

This is the issue, where you can change it around to work for you. Combine the lack of a check swing and the most ludicrous defensive swing system I've ever heard of, and you have a flawed control scheme for a baseball game.

**myghty** · 01-23-2010, 01:54 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

You know, everything you said is so logical, I dont understand what 2K was thinking with the way they set up their control scheme... Nice video.

**Galvatron** · 01-23-2010, 02:00 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by Blzer

I would agree with you, but going by what Chase said, swinging for power with a contact guy will actually be almost incorrect to do, like they aren't designed to swing for power so you shouldn't do so with them. It's like putting a QB in on defense in a video game... just because they have a tackle rating and this is a possible in-game scenario, doesn't make anything better in the end.

I'm not sure if he said the same thing for contact with power guys, but what my point was that in The Show I'm able to change my sliders around so that I can make the contact swing my only kind of swing (add more power, decrease contact a bit). For this game, I can't just increase contact and lower power, because supposedly a power swing will be detrimental for contact players.

This is the issue, where you can change it around to work for you. Combine the lack of a check swing and the most ludicrous defensive swing system I've ever heard of, and you have a flawed control scheme for a baseball game.

I see what you mean. Maybe the analog scheme would be better off with one type of swing being that the system would probably feed off of player ratings more accurately. I personally was never fond of the way it was implemented last year with the dual stick control, and felt it was better 2k7 style, minus the lack of difficulty hitting HRs. I'm 100% in agreement with the defensive swing gimmick instead of the check swing,tho. I'd like to have a word with whoever thought up that scheme.

**Blzer** · 01-23-2010, 02:15 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by kursekain

I'm 100% in agreement with the defensive swing gimmick instead of the check swing,tho. I'd like to have a word with whoever thought up that scheme.

I'm not sure if you mean the control scheme for it, or having a defensive swing altogether. After some convincing from Trevytrev11, I now stand by the argument that a defensive swing is perhaps appropriate for a baseball video game as long as it's done right. But as I said in the video, it's done terribly wrong. Maybe not with how they make contact, but with how the controls are.

I still don't know for the life of me why on earth someone would go up to the plate with an approach for fouling off pitches. I'm not sure if I said it in my video (though I meant to), but they may just fight off a pitch because it's borderline and they don't want to risk taking that strike three, or some other reasons like they guessed the wrong pitch and just have to do something with it. Along with that, you still have to load up.

I know that you agree with me, I'm just ranting more.

**myghty** · 01-23-2010, 02:19 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I remembered that Blzer's method of batting was implemented before & I was right. MVP NCAA 06-07 did have this & called it 'Load & Fire'. I know many people didn't try this game out but they had it down perfectly IMO. I loved those games... Too bad they discontinued it...

**Galvatron** · 01-23-2010, 03:03 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by Blzer

I'm not sure if you mean the control scheme for it, or having a defensive swing altogether. After some convincing from Trevytrev11, I now stand by the argument that a defensive swing is perhaps appropriate for a baseball video game as long as it's done right. But as I said in the video, it's done terribly wrong. Maybe not with how they make contact, but with how the controls are.

I still don't know for the life of me why on earth someone would go up to the plate with an approach for fouling off pitches. I'm not sure if I said it in my video (though I meant to), but they may just fight off a pitch because it's borderline and they don't want to risk taking that strike three, or some other reasons like they guessed the wrong pitch and just have to do something with it. Along with that, you still have to load up.

I know that you agree with me, I'm just ranting more.

Actually both. Too many different analog motions with this new defensive swing now. And like you said, why would I expect beforehand to fight off a pitch? THAT'S A LAST RESORT. I'm looking to hit! Not that it shouldn't be included, of course it should. Just not this way.

**Blzer** · 01-23-2010, 03:09 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Originally posted by kursekain

Actually both. Too many different analog motions with this new defensive swing now. And like you said, why would I expect beforehand to fight off a pitch? THAT'S A LAST RESORT. I'm looking to hit! Not that it shouldn't be included, of course it should. Just not this way.

Touché. I think if VC sort of read that notion, then they would understand that what they're doing makes no sense whatsoever. Aside from a hit-and-run scenario (and even that's up for argument because you don't want to be hitting foul balls either), I can't find a single reason to ever use a defensive swing. Why would we ever want to put the ball in play with such a swing? And exactly how much more contact room are we given since we already have a contact swing?

It's just weird.

**jeffy777** · 01-23-2010, 09:13 AM

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Great vids man

One thing: I was under the impression that we would be able to do a defensive swing with "the load", after pushing down to set up for power or contact as normal, and then flicking left or right based on the pitch. But maybe I didn't read Chase's description close enough. If it is something we have to decide before we even see the pitch, then I agree that it is going to be quite lame. But hopefully they implemented the way you suggested.

Do we know for a fact that you can't do a defensive swing after setting up for a contact or power swing? I went back and looked at Chase's posts and the articles and I didn't really see a definite answer either way, but I might have missed something. It might be too early to say it's definitely one way for sure....Actually the Gamespot article says that you just press up for contact, so there seems to be some conflicting reports on how exact the swing stick works this year, which tells me that we should probably hold off on making a verdict on it just yet.

Also, they had the separate contact and power swings in 2K7, then they moved it back to just one swing motion for contact and power in 2K8, which was an improvement in that regard. I'm not sure why they are going back to seperate contact and power again after combing the two a couple years ago. It seems like they often manage to undo the things they get right :/

I know Chase said that contact hitters aren't really suited to use the power swing, but maybe it will be possible to adjust the sliders so that we can just use one swing for all hitters like we do in The Show. I remember I was able to do this in 2K7 with decent results. Again, I think we need more impressions and hands on time before we reach a conclusion.

Chase did say he felt good about the swing stick overall this year after trying it, so I guess we'll have to wait and try it first hand before we completely throw it under the bus as being too flawed. With 2K, it's hard to really know what's true and what's not until we get an actual demo because it seems even the developers aren't on the same page as far as the info they give out (such as the editing options), so some of the things they told Chase or others may not have been entirely acccurate. So unfortunately, I really think we'll have to wait to know the specifics on some of this stuff.

Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

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