Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I do not like (hate, actually) the loss of the check swing. That said, I have no issue with the power, contact and defensive swings. MLB Power Pros uses the power swing (Big Swing) and causes me no issues. For me, it's all relative to the count.

I use the power swing on all 0 or 1 strike counts. Once I reach two strikes, I change to contact. Have a good read on a 2-2 pitch? Flick up for contact/normal swing. Chase says it's possible to hit a home run with the normal swing as long as the timing is right. Therefore, I don't feel as if I am sacrificing too much. Don't have a good read on a 2-2 pitch? Flick left/right in an attempt to foul it off.

The only swing MLB 2K10 "forces" the player to decide before the pitch is thrown is power. I'm okay with that.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Okay, I think I actually stand corrected in what I said in my video, it looks like they did something a little differently and, while it's still bad in my eyes IMO, at least it may be a bit better.

It looks like the contact swing is not mapped the way that I said (that's how it was in 2K6), but instead is done just by flicking up.

Defensive swing has been added as a third swing type to accompany power and contact. In my time with the game I found it difficult to determine when to use the defensive swing as my reaction time wasn't tuned to process the pitch type and location ahead of the ball actually crossing the plate. The defensive swing is pulled off by flicking the right analog to the left or right rather than the up and down motion of the power and contact swings. It's a simple innovation and it makes total sense, I'm just not sure how often it's going to be used.

At least this is only a little better because I suppose most people may actually determine whether to use power or contact before the pitch comes in, so this way if you're focused on contact, at least now you know that you're just going to flick the analog stick. So I guess that means you can't do a defensive swing from a "power load" (the only swing that includes a load).

To be honest, while that makes things sound better for the defensive swing, I think I'm now even more cheesed off that contact is just with pushing up. Once again, what's most important to me is that there is a one-mapped swing system (no power/contact separation) and that there are check-swings. I wasn't so mad about the defensive swing, but I needed to throw that out saying that their system made no sense. At least it makes a little more sense now, but in baseball terms it still seems really unnatural.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I know Chase said that contact hitters aren't really suited to use the power swing, but maybe it will be possible to adjust the sliders so that we can just use one swing for all hitters like we do in The Show. I remember I was able to do this in 2K7 with decent results. Again, I think we need more impressions and hands on time before we reach a conclusion.

Chase did say he felt good about the swing stick overall this year after trying it, so I guess we'll have to wait and try it first hand before we completely throw it under the bus as being too flawed. With 2K, it's hard to really know what's true and what's not until we get an actual demo because it seems even the developers aren't on the same page as far as the info they give out (such as the editing options), so some of the things they told Chase or others may not have been entirely acccurate. So unfortunately, I really think we'll have to wait to know the specifics on some of this stuff.

Well, I know that maybe the hitting model in general has improved so I'd say he probably feels better about that, but we know for ourselves how the controls are mapped out. I firmly believe that the alternative control scheme I provided makes much more sense in baseball terms. Now at least the contact swing isn't how I thought it was for 2K10, but in some ways I think it's worse that there's no load for it (thankfully though, the defensive swing is along with the contact swing... so they kind of got it right).

The only reason(s) I'm skeptical about the power and contact swings being separated is how Chase described that power swings are disadvantageous for contact hitters, like it's not meant for them. I wonder if sliders will make everything okay, but if not, then it's a problem. You see, 2K has a reputation for making a power swing a "home run" swing instead, like power influences more fly balls by default. I doubt there's a slider to hit more ground balls than fly balls, so already that would be a problem on its own. And then of course, we can't use the defensive swing if we are mapping it out to only loading down and firing up.

They got it all ***-backwards here.

I do not like (hate, actually) the loss of the check swing. That said, I have no issue with the power, contact and defensive swings. MLB Power Pros uses the power swing (Big Swing) and causes me no issues. For me, it's all relative to the count.

I use the power swing on all 0 or 1 strike counts. Once I reach two strikes, I change to contact. Have a good read on a 2-2 pitch? Flick up for contact/normal swing. Chase says it's possible to hit a home run with the normal swing as long as the timing is right. Therefore, I don't feel as if I am sacrificing too much. Don't have a good read on a 2-2 pitch? Flick left/right in an attempt to foul it off.

Yeah, I just read your post and looked back at the IGN article to see that contact is done by pushing up, not pulling back and let go.

What I'm really surprised about in your post though is how you say that you're okay with the power/contact separation in this game because they say it's possible to hit a home run with contact in this game. But don't you remember that in MLB Power Pros, it was not possible to hit a home run with contact in that game? And I mean it was literally impossible... like, it was coded that way. That was one of my only downfalls with Power Pros.

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Oh, the lack of home run power bothers me a bit in Power Pros.

But I do like that the power swing also increases sharply hit ground balls and line drives. The power swing in Power Pros is not, as you say, a "home run" swing. If anything, MLB 2K10's swing mechanic (if the contact swing includes some pop) is a slight upgrade from Power Pro's.

One more thing; MLB 2K10's player ratings include ground ball/fly ball rates. Those should help produce more realistic results in the field.

[sirwoodz]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

if they ever need somebody to play tiger woods in a movie...wow.

[jeffy777]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Okay, I think I actually stand corrected in what I said in my video, it looks like they did something a little differently and, while it's still bad in my eyes IMO, at least it may be a bit better.

It looks like the contact swing is not mapped the way that I said (that's how it was in 2K6), but instead is done just by flicking up.

At least this is only a little better because I suppose most people may actually determine whether to use power or contact before the pitch comes in, so this way if you're focused on contact, at least now you know that you're just going to flick the analog stick. So I guess that means you can't do a defensive swing from a "power load" (the only swing that includes a load).

But we really don't know if we can do a defensive swing after getting set for a power swing. To me, it seems like there will be a good chance that we will be able to, but the thing is we really don't know for sure yet, which is why we need to wait until we jump to conclusions about a lot of this.

Well, I know that maybe the hitting model in general has improved so I'd say he probably feels better about that, but we know for ourselves how the controls are mapped out. I firmly believe that the alternative control scheme I provided makes much more sense in baseball terms. Now at least the contact swing isn't how I thought it was for 2K10, but in some ways I think it's worse that there's no load for it (thankfully though, the defensive swing is along with the contact swing... so they kind of got it right).

The only reason(s) I'm skeptical about the power and contact swings being separated is how Chase described that power swings are disadvantageous for contact hitters, like it's not meant for them. I wonder if sliders will make everything okay, but if not, then it's a problem. You see, 2K has a reputation for making a power swing a "home run" swing instead, like power influences more fly balls by default. I doubt there's a slider to hit more ground balls than fly balls, so already that would be a problem on its own. And then of course, we can't use the defensive swing if we are mapping it out to only loading down and firing up.

They got it all ***-backwards here.

Yeah, I just read your post and looked back at the IGN article to see that contact is done by pushing up, not pulling back and let go.

What I'm really surprised about in your post though is how you say that you're okay with the power/contact separation in this game because they say it's possible to hit a home run with contact in this game. But don't you remember that in MLB Power Pros, it was not possible to hit a home run with contact in that game? And I mean it was literally impossible... like, it was coded that way. That was one of my only downfalls with Power Pros.

I was able to hit homers with the contact swing in 2K7 after adjusting sliders, so there's a chance we'll be able to do the same here. It wasn't possible in Power Pros, but that doesn't mean it's the same here. Only time will tell, but I'm going to wait and see before I pass judgment because there are still some unknowns at this point as far as what all VC has done with the hitting this year.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I was able to hit homers with the contact swing in 2K7 after adjusting sliders, so there's a chance we'll be able to do the same here. It wasn't possible in Power Pros, but that doesn't mean it's the same here. Only time will tell, but I'm going to wait and see before I pass judgment because there are still some unknowns at this point as far as what all VC has done with the hitting this year.

Well the way Chase said it, there is a chance for home runs with the contact swing, but it requires perfecting your contact and timing. Now I'm guessing he probably means that the best of power hitters have that feasibility with this, and contact guys probably have none chance at this. I've actually had this problem with 2K7, and whenever I would increase the power slider to compensate, home runs with bigger guys just became automatic because I would hold onto up to influence a fly ball, which in that game it was more like "influence a home run".

And never do I say that their system is broken (except for no check swing). I just say that it's flawed, and that there is a much better approach to all of this that makes more sense in baseball terms. Let's not forget that there is still no aiming (zone hitting) with this system and it's all influence-based, which is yet again another thing that they have seemed to keep in for years.

This is a good talk, though. I learned some from you guys and stand corrected in how the contact swing works. Time will tell if you can use the defensive swing from the power swing, but it's kind of sounding like you can't.

[nemesis04]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Time will tell if you can use the defensive swing from the power swing, but it's kind of sounding like you can't.

Realistically you should not be able to. If a batter is going for extra oomph that should be the risk penalty you get. The same reasoning behind why you cannot check swing a power swing in the show. There needs to be consequences.

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Blzer, I just took a moment to watch your videos.

I like your alternate control scheme but have one question. You mention "stopping" the stick to check swing, but isn't that the same as "unloading" if the player wants to relax on an obvious ball? I think the only way to truly check swing with the hit stick is to pull back.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Realistically you should not be able to. If a batter is going for extra oomph that should be the risk penalty you get. The same reasoning behind why you cannot check swing a power swing in the show. There needs to be consequences.

I'd say there's a difference, and in fact I think it makes more sense to do a defensive swing from a power swing. It's kind of that ultimate "oh crap, I don't want to swing like that on this pitch," and you're ultimately breaking down much more than you would for a normal swing. I see it plenty in baseball already and I've done it myself, so I know that while you can't maybe stop your swing after you've already committed, you can definitely decide beforehand that maybe you don't want to go all out on a power swing.

And I really don't like that they separate the two, in any game for that matter. The only games that have ever done this right with a zone hitting system that I've owned are High Heat and ESPN MLB. Every other game includes some sort of power option, which to me is as ridiculous as turbo in sports games. I say we let their ratings determine what kind of hit we get.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Blzer, I just took a moment to watch your videos.

I like your alternate control scheme but have one question. You mention "stopping" the stick to check swing, but isn't that the same as "unloading" if the player wants to relax on an obvious ball? I think the only way to truly check swing with the hit stick is to pull back.

Elaborate more. I half-understand your question, but I don't think I get the rest. I'll try to re-explain it when I fully grasp what you're asking.

[500Feet]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Blzer, I just took a moment to watch your videos.

I like your alternate control scheme but have one question. You mention "stopping" the stick to check swing, but isn't that the same as "unloading" if the player wants to relax on an obvious ball? I think the only way to truly check swing with the hit stick is to pull back.

When he said " stopping " the stick, he means stopping it while it's above the center, so if ya let go of it, the stick will snap back to the center from above and the swing would be checked. Unload is when you load, then let the stick snap back to the center from holding down.

[jeffy777]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I'd say there's a difference, and in fact I think it makes more sense to do a defensive swing from a power swing. It's kind of that ultimate "oh crap, I don't want to swing like that on this pitch," and you're ultimately breaking down much more than you would for a normal swing. I see it plenty in baseball already and I've done it myself, so I know that while you can't maybe stop your swing after you've already committed, you can definitely decide beforehand that maybe you don't want to go all out on a power swing.

And I really don't like that they separate the two, in any game for that matter. The only games that have ever done this right with a zone hitting system that I've owned are High Heat and ESPN MLB. Every other game includes some sort of power option, which to me is as ridiculous as turbo in sports games. I say we let their ratings determine what kind of hit we get.

For the most part, I agree with you. However, many players have different swings for different situations. For instance, Ryan theriot is known as a pretty good contact hitter, who mostly tries to just get on base. However, Lou told him at the start of last season to use more of a power swing when he's in an RBI situation, and he actually showed some unusual power last season at certain times, but when he needed to just get on base, he resorted to his tighter compact swing that he's known for.

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

500 Feet answered my question. Thanks!

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

For the most part, I agree with you. However, many players have different swings for different situations. For instance, Ryan theriot is known as a pretty good contact hitter, who mostly tries to just get on base. However, Lou told him at the start of last season to use more of a power swing when he's in an RBI situation, and he actually showed some unusual power last season at certain times, but when he needed to just get on base, he resorted to his tighter compact swing that he's known for.

I understand that, and I know where people are coming from with this. But if rather see a "standard" swing and a "power" swing, rather than a "contact" swing and a "power" swing (but frankly I'd rather just have one swing in general). And from 2K's history, this hasn't been the case at all. Again, I see what you mean, but it gets abused and programmed the wrong way is all.

500 Feet answered my question. Thanks!

Yeah, he answered it. So to clarify, if you load (pull back), you have three options afterwards: 1) continue staying loaded; 2) come to rest (release stick and let it go to center); 3) swing (however you do it, either straight forward or off to the side for a "weaker" swing). And before I proceed, if you decide to swing after coming to rest, you can then flick the stick upward as a last resort. This is something that I do in real life if there is a pitch that appears high so I begin to lay off, but ends up being a curve that drops back down in the zone that I then decide to hack away at. Somehow the game will have to know beforehand that you have already loaded so that it doesn't confuse it with a bunt. And I guess to "clear" the game's knowledge of you loading if you still want to bunt after, maybe you can click R3 to reset or something.

Now as for check swings, as I mentioned, there are two kinds of check swings sort of, one that would be more consequential than another. One is the snap back, which if done properly can get you to not hold the bat out there as you sometimes see, which may convince an umpire that you went around. To snap back (and not all the way back, but you know... more than holding it out there), you would flick down after already swinging. To hold it out there as you sometimes see (and maybe they fall out of the box a little bit, I'd show you in another video but that would look weird), you would just release the stick and let it go back to center. This way your bat might accidentally make contact with the ball, and this way the umpire may be more convinced that you go around depending on where the bat is... but it's an easier thing to do than snapping back, control-wise.

Hope that clears everything up.