Too much of a focus on realism?

[Celtic34]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

When the only competition to madden was that horrible euphoria game there's an issue. And people actually bought it and were raving about it like apex which is sad.

Other things can be done is all I'm saying. But I want it to be good and realistic at the same time.

I Think i'm just beyond burnt out on hearing about how Manny's hair isn't long enough, when these games are realistic enough, when I wish there was more talk about new ideas.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I agree. Video game design is awful, and I'm not even sure it qualifies as design at all. Most games, and "innovations" within a game, are usually just ripoffs of something already on the market. Sports games are stifled even more by licensing.

The age of industry we live in has a demand to meet, and so naturally it's just going to churn out uninspired crap, because it can. It's only when the pigs step away from the trough that we see shifts. Unfortunately those shifts almost always result in more useless fodder.

Some say all this will come to an end, and some even welcome that scenario. Whatever the case, it's generally a good idea not to put your hopes on that which will only fail you.

[Celtic34]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I remember buying games adn really getting into the depth of them and learning the controls and getting used to how they felt, players moved etc.

Madden I've been using the same controls for years. It's become about who is the best and madden tourneys and they won't change it because all the fanboys would be upset.

How boring is that? You buy the same game every year and play the same game every year.

There are other ways to make these games is all i'm saying. I think people have forgotten that.

A completely different football game could be made that would be just as realistic and awesome and even better.

It just seems like a lot of people have fallen into this state of fix your uniforms and have given up. It's become about just making the players look as realistic as possible when it's the same game every year.

I think a lot of people like this game simply because it's a change of pace.

[PadresFan104]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I think a lot of people like this game simply because it's a change of pace.

Count me as one of those people. Have ignored the 2K series for 3 years because of The Show. Really loving the change...

[Celtic34]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I'm enjoying this game as well. It's fun. I'm not too much of a nitpicker surprisingly. This game is pretty nice and fun. I like 2k's take on baseball.

That's kind of what I noticed when i played both games head to head. They aren't that different. 2k's graphics aren't as good, and it has a few more bugs. But who cares. They are nearly identical. 2k's game works online because it's not as graphically intensive. 2k was able to get theirs to work online by shutting off a few presentation details. So win. I also like mlb today and 2k's interface. As well as the stat overlays and inside edge and stuff. I think 2k's game has more features.

I'm not a graphics whore or a nitpicker when it comes to bugs, so I pick 2k's game this year. Both games look good to me. They play basically the same. 2k gives you a little bit more control. The Show has a little better AI and animations.

The two games are nearly identical this year. Just pick one and be happy.

I like what 2k does for the most part. I read a while back that 2k was created because it was a bunch of guys who got sick of playing the same madden every year and wanted something more realistic. NFL 2k was born. I think the Show was the same sort of thing where Sony wanted an exclusive baseball game to trump them all. So the industry does still spurn this kind of stuff. It's just more concentrated these days.

I still think more can be done.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I think the real solution is to avoid forums. It's much easier to play an appreciate a game for what it is when you don't spend the day reading a dozen threads on what is wrong with the game.

Baseball is probably the hardest sport to pull off as a videogame. Most of us have grown up with dozens of different takes on how to approach realism vs. fun. What we have to day are just the current iterations. I spent most of my time being partial to text sims.

And you know what? There was a good chunk of time in which I dismissed OOTP for the much more "refined" Diamond Mind Baseball. Seriously, I was snobbish about which text sim was more legitimate. but that's becasue replayers cared more about authentic statistical reproduction. OOTP was a franchise, and it failed to deliver realistic stats in favor of evolving league play.

But even among replayers there was debate. Many favored Strat-O-Matic over DMB, becasue you could see how the results were produced. It was merely the card game I grew up with thrown on a computer screen. DMB hide how results were determined. But it was far more elegant and went the next step with pitch-by-pitch gameplay. You could choose to steal on a specific count.

So really, there is no solution. People are different and have different desires in what they want out of games. And in the end, no game actually nails it for anyone. We always take what we can get.

[Sabo's corked Bat]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

What a bunch on nonsense OP.

[Celtic34]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

What a bunch on nonsense OP.

Would you like to explain why? This is half the issue imo, is schools these days and society are teaching people what to think not how to think. Do you think there isn't a lack of innovation. Because I do. I think there are ideas out there that aren't being implemented.

Video games have been around for about 40 years now so that's understandable. But the internet is still fairly new. Why isn't it being taken advantage of like it could be? Is there just not the demand for it? Did developers try it and it just wasn't in demand? 2kshare and just quick play games are all that seem to be fairly popular and a success.

My argument is that these games are good at their core and realistic, but there isn't a whole lot being done on top of that.

Honestly what did we see this year? 2k ironed out their gameplay somewhat. The Show added analog controls. Analog controls have beena round for quite sometime.

I give credit to Brinkman for coming up with the control system that is in this game 3 years later. But it just seems to me like ideas like that are far and in between.

Was Brinkman good for this game at the time? Probably not. But he did innovate. Sometimes it's takes people like that to try something new.

I honestly have a hard time believing that Madden is the best that can be done. I play that game and I think there are about 5 things I can think of right now that could be done differently that aren't being done for the simple fact that EA refuses to mess with a formula that is a cash cow for them.

[Sabo's corked Bat]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

For off, your little 'rant' is all over the place and doesnt even have anything to do with the title of the thread. Secondly, we want realism in sports games. We dont want over realism in fantasy games etc. Your rambling was pretty incoherent and was more about games in general and should of been in the general discussion forum or something.

[Celtic34]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

For off, your little 'rant' is all over the place and doesnt even have anything to do with the title of the thread. Secondly, we want realism in sports games. We dont want over realism in fantasy games etc. Your rambling was pretty incoherent and was more about games in general and should of been in the general discussion forum or something.

There isn't a general discussion forum. Maybe there should be one? I posted it here because I explained I was at Best Buy playing the Show and came home and was playign this game and it was nice that there was actually two games with different takes on the sport. If someone wants to move it, feel free. I just didn't know where to post it. There isn't a general forum.

I thought the title made sense. I think developers have this tagline to create the most realistic video game ever. There is too much of a focus on that. I think these games are to the point where they are pretty realistic. That's not the issue.

Like I said I liked what 2k did with the jordan challenge and trying something different that was realistic in it's own way and immersive. There isn't a whole lot of that. I'd like a mode like that in this game or something else. But 2k has their resources on their NBA game. They weren't willing to try that here for some reason.

I think licensing has created an issue in the industry where it's squashing ideas. It's not that hard to understand.

I think companies are too concerned with shutting the competition out vs letting them in. Then they say these games cost so much to make, when it's their own fault.

Software used to be free for the most part. It used to cost about 50 cents to make. I was there. There was a lot more of it too and developers were a lot more willing to try different things.

These companies have loads of money. You'd think they'd be able to chill out themselves and open the door a bit to new ways of doing things and reduce costs. Major league baseball has tons of money as well. It shouldn't cost that much to make a video game.

My point is if games were less expensive to make there would be more people able to make them. Which would equal more ideas and more diversity. These games are realistic. We get it. I just wish there was more a focus on other ideas as well. Why can't there be other games with the major league license as well that are just as realistic but try different things?

[peigone]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

For off, your little 'rant' is all over the place and doesnt even have anything to do with the title of the thread. Secondly, we want realism in sports games.

First off, relax. Secondly, who is "we"? I could care less about realism as I already stated. And there are many people who care more about innovation than improved graphics and picture-perfect stadiums.

[peigone]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

I think licensing has created an issue in the industry where it's squashing ideas.

That's the first time I've heard that idea and made that connection. You're definitely on to something there.

[Sabo's corked Bat]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

First off, relax. Secondly, who is "we"? I could care less about realism as I already stated. And there are many people who care more about innovation than improved graphics and picture-perfect stadiums.

Er, its a sports game, people that want it to be arcadey are little kids that dont even make up the core audience. 2K has a long way to go to be realistic and I'm not talking about graphics. Im talking about fundamentals of baseball that are still lacking from 2K. Even features that were in previous games. If you want an arcade, unrealistic baseball game, go play The Bigs. What do innovative controls, features etc. have to do with realism? If you think anything he said was new info, or enlightning, you must be young. These things have been going on for a decade.

[peigone]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

If you think anything he said was new info, or enlightning, you must be young.

I read his posts and I see thoughtful conversing. I read your posts and I see anger management-challenged criticizing and attacking. At that point, I don't care about the specifics. I only care about who's making the effort to communicate in a civil, adult manner.

[queensbomber]

Re: Too much of a focus on realism?

In the end, 2K isnt in a rush to put out a great product every year because they know all 360 have no chioce but to purchase the game they put out, as lackluster as it is, they have no choice!
Yes some cant take it and trade in their console but many dont.

Same goes for madden.
They add a little something new each year but its the same game because well, theres no competition!
I have never liked madden and to ME, I have never been able to complete a single game because of its lack of "fun".

Sony has their own audience now and I feel the same thing is going on there, adding little features to print on the back of the box.
The past 2 years the show has grown stale on me mid season and as I pop this years version in, I feel the staleness will come sooner.

Then again, its a sports game!
Its one of the only video game genres that crank out a game annually.
You dont get a new GTA every year or some adventure every year, no, the developers take their time with it to make it good.
Sports titles are rushed out the door with 1 or 2 tweaks to make it seem like they made something new.

The show made strides in 09 when they really polished their awesome 08 version, after that the game just seemed to get recycled.
Which isnt too bad because it played a great game of baseball but I can see people thinking theyve grown lazy.

As far as realism goes, I think thats what gamers want most of all!
No denying that.
And I see your point that they try to make these game look as as realistic as possible that you forget that the point is to have fun.

Im sure everyone remembers MVP baseball 2005 and how absolutely fun that game was.
It looked good at that the time but wasnt over crowded with stunning visuals.
They got the fundamentals right.
Great gameplay first of all, smooth running gam with even smoother and ultra responsice controls.
Graphically, the game was on the cartoony side but it worked.
It had its own unique look and it was great.

I love what 2k has done with pitching and the sho cant deny its greatness by adding analog controls in their game.
I personally dont like their take on pitching but its a start.

If 2k would clean up their game, I think theres enough realism to make the game feel authentic but not enough to make it boring, they would be the clear winner in the "virtual baseball wars".