Do you know how the AI calculates...

[aykyle]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

All you said was that you changed their arm strengths and they still messed it up.
You never said if you have edited these players before or after the CPU switched them.
Or if you edited them before you started a franchise mode, if you never entered franchise mode. What roster file you are using. You weren't specific, so I gave you the general pattern. I do think I gave you the pattern, if you find another piece of evidence that says otherwise, then by all means tell us. Because I found absolutely nothing else.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

All you said was that you changed their arm strengths and they still messed it up.
You never said if you have edited these players before or after the CPU switched them.
Or if you edited them before you started a franchise mode, if you never entered franchise mode. What roster file you are using. You weren't specific, so I gave you the general pattern. I do think I gave you the pattern, if you find another piece of evidence that says otherwise, then by all means tell us. Because I found absolutely nothing else.

I used the 2k base roster from the 4th and started from there.

First I played around with the fielding abilities (CF/RF/LF/etc.).

After that I changed the fielding ratings itself (Arms/Range/etc.).

I thought I said that already: post 25 in the thread http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043554385

Because of that I don't really know what really goes on by calculating the fielding positions. You are not completely wrong when you say that the arm matters, because in some cases it obviously does, but in some cases the arm seems not to matter.

My rating change for Cabrera and Pagan resulted in the following ratings:
Cabrera:
- Glove 67
- Throw Accuracy 69
- Arm Strength 77
- Range 68
- Anticipation 68
Pagan:
- Glove 72
- Throw Accuracy 69
- Arm Strength 79
- Range 91
- Anticipation 83

First I let the fielding abilities the following:
Cabrera:
- LF abilitiy 100
- CF ability 97
- RF ability 97
Pagan:
- LF ability 90
- CF ability 100
- RF ability 90

I tested it and the CPU put Melky into CF and Pagan into LF. I simply can't understand why. Pagan is better than Cabrera in all ratings, only in accuracy they are equal.

I thought that perhaps the Speed and Acceleration could also come into count, but Pagan is way faster (10 points) and has a better acceleration (5 points) than Cabrera.

The AI played Pagan not in CF until I lowered Cabrera's CF rating to 80.

This is what confuses me so. I have found no reason why it could be so.

The only thing which came into my mind was that perhaps the throwing arm (left/right) would matter. But then I made my research and I saw that the Blue Jays was completely screwed over by the AI:
- 1B Bautista (right hander, normally RF)
- LF Lind (left hander, normally 1B)
- RF Thames (right hander, normally LF)
Bautista has by FAR the better arm over the other two, so you normally expect him to play outfield. Also the other fielding ratings are better and he is faster and has the better acceleration.

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

Because of that I don't really know what really goes on by calculating the fielding positions. You are not completely wrong when you say that the arm matters, because in some cases it obviously does, but in some cases the arm seems not to matter.

Heh, it's not rocket science. The game chooses players almost exclusively based on their overall rating and offensive ability. It will put it a crap fielder in the wrong position every time as long as the guy has a ton of power hitting ability for example. In that regard the game's lineup coding appears to have be programmed by either chimps or retired steriod-era players.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

Heh, it's not rocket science. The game chooses players almost exclusively based on their overall rating and offensive ability. It will put it a crap fielder in the wrong position every time as long as the guy has a ton of power hitting ability for example. In that regard the game's lineup coding appears to have be programmed by either chimps or retired steriod-era players.

This means Gonzalez or Cabrera play CF over Fowler or Pagan because of their OFFENSIVE ratings although they could be WORSE DEFENSIVELY?

That would be some serious crap...I do not want to say that you are wrong, but that would be like a slap in the face. ^^

I must admit that I can't finally believe that because when the AI wanted to play the biggest hitters they simply could put them in their primary positions. There would be no need to change 3 players to their secondary or even third positions when they play anyway like shown in the example with the Blue Jays...

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

This means Gonzalez or Cabrera play CF over Fowler or Pagan because of their OFFENSIVE ratings although they could be WORSE DEFENSIVELY?

All of this is pretty easy to test. Create a test roster, then lower the ratings of all players on your test team to as low as they go (25 in most cases). Then start raising offensive and/or defensive ratings systematically for your staring 8 fielders, each time testing to see where the AI both sticks your players in the lineup, and in which position it chooses to play them. I may even test this myself, I have some time this morning.

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

wudl83, I set up a test roster, all players rated 25 in every catagory. I created a "starting 8" and named the players according to their position number: C = 2, 1B = 3, etc. That makes it easier to quickly see how the AI rearranges the players in the lineup when I choose to optimize the lineup.

First test: I hit optimize, and the AI randomly placed players in the lineup with no regard to their primary postion. It had my C playing RF, my 3B playing 2B, etc. I then edited my starting 8 and raised their primary fielding position rating to 99. Optimized again, and the AI placed them in their correct positions.

The batting order however made no sense. The AI placed my two left-hitting players in the #1 and #2 hole in the lineup when facing both L and R pitchers Seems to me it should have placed the left-handed hitters at the bottom of the order, or at least staggered them when facing L pitchers.

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

Next series of tests using my 1B, a left-handed hitter:

Raised my 1B's HR rating to 99. AI placed him in the #3 hole in all four lineups. Thumbs up.

Reset my 1B's ratings to 25, then raised his Batting VS rating to 99. AI placed him in the #3 hole in all four lineups. Thumbs up.

Reset my 1B's ratings to 25, then raised his Speed rating to 99. AI placed him:
#4 hole vR
#1 hole vRDH
#4 hole vL
#1 hole vLDH
Not only that, even though it dropped him into the #4 hole twice, the AI still placed my other left-handed hitter (25 Speed) in the #1 spot both times. That's just plain funky.

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

I'm starting to get the sense some of the lineup logic might be determined by the player's specific position and how that position is traditionally looked at. I'll give you an example:

When I first optimized with all players rated 25, the AI placed the 1B in the #4 hole, and my SS and 2B at or near the top of the order. Traditionally, the 1B position is seen as a power/RBI position, whereas the SS and to some degree 2B is seen as a lighter-hitting, speed position.

So I just ran another test: I reset my 1B, then raised his HR rating to 99. I also edited my switch-hitting SS and raised his Speed to 99. Optimized, and the AI placed the SS in the #1 hole and the 1B in the #3 hole in all four lineups. That's perfect.

I then edited my SS and made him a left-handed hitter. Optimized and the AI kept him in the #1 hole for all four lineups. So his hitting side made no difference there. Yet the AI twice placed the 1B in the #4 hole when his Speed was 99.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

Big big thanx for your effort.

Obviously somehow these "position patterns" make sense, at least for infielders. I downloaded the newest 2k roster and optimized the Giants. The AI put Belt into LF, Cabrera in CF, Pill in 3B and Sandoval on 1B.

Since Sandoval is first a 3B and Pill a 1B this is somehow strange, but when you see Sandoval is the team's no. 1 power hitter, perhaps you are right...

Would only be further interesting why they switch the outfielders around.

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

Would only be further interesting why they switch the outfielders around.

I know you do a lot of roster editing. IMO, it's probably easiest to simply edit players' secondary fielding position ratings way down, so that the AI is forced to select the correct fielder as he lines up for his real-life MLB team. That doesn't fix the batting order, but at least players will be playing their correct positions in the field.

I might do more testing, but there's not a lot of point for me as I don't care who the CPU chooses and where they hit in the lineup. But it's all interesting nonetheless.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

I know you do a lot of roster editing. IMO, it's probably easiest to simply edit players' secondary fielding position ratings way down, so that the AI is forced to select the correct fielder as he lines up for his real-life MLB team. That doesn't fix the batting order, but at least players will be playing their correct positions in the field.

I might do more testing, but there's not a lot of point for me as I don't care who the CPU chooses and where they hit in the lineup. But it's all interesting nonetheless.

Yes, to tone down the secondary positions is one possibility. But I don't like this too much since this would e.g. mean that Carlos Gonzalez, who played the major part of his career in CF, won't be able to do this adequatly anymore.
But by now this is the only way to regulate this.

Thanks for your tests!

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

But by now this is the only way to regulate this. Thanks for your tests!

No problem.

I'm not convinced the fielding rating determines ability. There is a Glove and Anticipation rating for that. My bet is the fielding rating determines whether the player can and does play another position, other than his primary position. At any rate, I'd be surprised if lowering fielding ratings has any noticable effect on player performance, and the number of errors and misplays you'll see.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

No problem.

I'm not convinced the fielding rating determines ability. There is a Glove and Anticipation rating for that. My bet is the fielding rating determines whether the player can and does play another position, other than his primary position. At any rate, I'd be surprised if lowering fielding ratings has any noticable effect on player performance, and the number of errors and misplays you'll see.

I don't know either regarding the last point of erros or misplays.

But I know that setting the fielding ability of a position way down makes the AI not playing the player at this position. ^^

[Yeats]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

But I know that setting the fielding ability of a position way down makes the AI not playing the player at this position.

That's understood. What I'm saying is their default secondary fielding ratings are too high, which is why you're seeing too many players placed in the wrong position according to their real-life MLB counterparts.

If the player should be playing RF most of the time, then his RF rating should be set at 100. If he also plays LF once in a while, chances are his default secondary fielding rating is still going to be very high, probably around 85-90. Lower that secondary rating down to 50 or something and I'm guessing it will solve that particular issue for you.

[wudl83]

Re: Do you know how the AI calculates...

That's understood. What I'm saying is their default secondary fielding ratings are too high, which is why you're seeing too many players placed in the wrong position according to their real-life MLB counterparts.

If the player should be playing RF most of the time, then his RF rating should be set at 100. If he also plays LF once in a while, chances are his default secondary fielding rating is still going to be very high, probably around 85-90. Lower that secondary rating down to 50 or something and I'm guessing it will solve that particular issue for you.

Yeah it will. I will do that, because I do not know any other solutions. I already have tested that.

The only problem I have with this are e.g. guys like Carlos Gonzalez or Melky Cabrera, which would get a 50 CF ability although they played CF large parts of their career. But well...seems to be a question of either/or.