100 Pitch Speed

[Redemption]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

for anyones that curious, this is the main data I'm considering and using when thinking about sliders... it may be more than anyone wants to know, but here it is anyway...


based on fan graphs (and some math on my part) here are some approximate MLB strike/swing/contact ratios for those interested

ok, breaking down the outcome of a pitch step by step, a pitch can either be in the strike zone or outside

Inside: 45%
Outside: 55%

Of those two outcomes, a pitch can either be swung at or taken (for a total of 4 outcomes)

If inside the zone...
Swing: 65% (or about 29% of all pitches)
Take: 35% (or about 16% of all pitches)

If outside the zone...
Swing: 29% (or about 16% of all pitches)
Take: 71% (or about 39% of all pitches)

This also means that 39% of all pitches end up balls, while 61% end up counting as strikes (either looking, or balls swung at). It also shows that 45% of all pitches get swung at, while 55% are taken (oddly enough, the exact same ratio as pitches inside the strike zone to outside)

Now, of the times you swing at a pitch (either inside or outside the strike zone), you can either make contact, or miss...

If inside the zone and swing...
Contact: 88% (or about 25.5% of all pitches)
Miss: 12% (or about 3.5% of all pitches)

If outside the zone and swing...
Contact: 67% (or about 10.7% of all pitches)
Miss: 33% (or about 5.3% of all pitches)



So when we look at the data as a whole, there are 6 possible results on every pitch...

Ball: 39%
Strike Looking: 16%
Swing and Contact on a pitch in the strike zone: 25.5%
Swing and Miss on a pitch in the strike zone: 3.5%
Swing and Contact on a pitch outside the strike zone: 10.7%
Swing an Miss on a pitch outside the strike zone: 5.3%

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

RD - rereading your post, I developed these slider modifications - would you say this is on the somewhat right track?

Batting
Contact: 90/90
Power: 50/50 (?)

Pitching
Accuracy: 35/35
Effectiveness: 35/25

When you say "accuracy" for the CPU I assume you mean Strike Zone Tendency because there is no "accuracy" slider for CPU only Human

[Matt10]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

When you say "accuracy" for the CPU I assume you mean Strike Zone Tendency because there is no "accuracy" slider for CPU only Human

Shoot, I honestly didn't think about that. I actually modified the "pitch success" value.

Just finished a game. Uploading a video to vimeo and youtube. I liked the results, but I wonder if I had the sliders of CPU pitching and User incorrect. We'll see - eitherway, it was a blast of fun.

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

I played two games last night using sliders similar to what was discussed earlier. Hum contact at 90/Power 50. CPU Contact I want to say was at 75, power at 35. I'm at work so I don't remember the exact numbers.

What I noticed is for the human Redemtion is spot on. WAY more foul balls. Like I had some AB's where it would be like 5-6 in a row. Loved that. I also hit my first HR since I've had the game with Angel Pagan and I was shocked. I had to switch the batting cam to cam 3 because I can see the break better. I use the old school hitting BTW with the one button swing.

I had the OF speed as 35 and they still seem too fast for me for the CPU I'm wondering if they have an "edge" on knowing where the ball is going to be hit. I wanna drop that down a little bit because they move a little too quick on shots to the gap.

As far as the CPU it's a mixed bag.

The good news is the power at 35 didn't hurt them. I saw a HR and plenty of XBH. I did see more foul balls but not enough. The biggest problem I saw was it seemed that upping the contact also made them have super human eyes. I stuck out 4 in the first game which was pretty good but the second was none. I mean they almost never would swing and miss. I did get a couple K's looking. But it felt cheesy. I'm gonna try 65 and see what happens.

For the record I had my pitch meter at 50. Maybe upping that will help?

[Redemption]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

good stuff jistic... for the cpu batting, yeah the high contact is designed to work with a full/very very close to full circle when pitching. So idk what you were usually getting with 50 pitch meter speed, but if it wasn't usually full, then they aren't going to swing and miss enough. I'm literally trying to tune it so that a full circle isn't "special"... it is basically normal, and anything less is sub par

so you could either lower cpu contact, or human pitch meter speed. Either should help. If you like where the cpu power is though, be aware that lowing the pitch meter speed will reduce the quality of contact a bit (as a plus, it should create more foul balls).

One idea I'm playing with is a 0 pitch meter speed, and 100 fatigue effect. Since pitchers now have a set pitch count, the fatigue effect doesn't lower that total (unlike years past, where this slider would literally make pitchers fatigue faster and have to come out sooner), it simply makes the meter speed and pitcher accuracy decrease at a quicker rate. So the goal is that, later in the game, the pitcher will be getting hit harder, and you will really be able to tell the difference from the nice and easy 0 pitch meter speed in inning 1, to the speed at 80 pitches in inning 6.

[Redemption]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

also keep in mind though, that only 3.5% of all pitches thrown during a game should be swung and missed in the strike zone. Or just over 1 in 10 of all strikes swung at.

So if you are used to swing and miss rates like you usually get in video games, then you're going to be sorely disappointed in these. Also, if your foul ball rates for the cpu are way too low, that is going to drastically effect your K rate...

think about it, if 9 out of 10 balls swung at in the zone are hit, and you aren't getting any foul balls, then thats about 6 outs (3 hits, if we give them a generious .333 BABIP) for every 1 ball swung at and missed in the strike zone. If that one doesn't happen to be the third strike, then you are looking at another 6 outs before the next one.

Now, if you are getting the correct amount of fouls (in real life about 50% of contacted balls, but I'm willing to go as low as 40% for my target) then suddenly of those 9 swings with contact, only 5 are in play. If 3.5 of them results in outs (1.5 result in hits, for a .300 BABIP) then suddenly we are looking at a swing and miss (at strikes... we aren't even talking about swings and misses at balls out of the strike zone) nearly twice as much during the course of a game.

Thats why getting the correct amount of foul balls is so important

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

The swing and miss % didn't "seem" wrong. I could chart it tonight. THe fould ball % wasn't terrible. But what did seem wrong is that they "knew" that a pitch wouldn't be a strike. And borderline on the black pitch they seemed to always lay off of no matter what the count.

I think I'm just going to lower contact a little to 65 and then I'll keep track tonight. I know it's one game but it will be fun in my geeky sort of way.

[Redemption]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

well based on all my testing, the swing % on balls vs strikes stays relatively consistant over time (however, it could vary a decent amount game to game. A lot depends on the batters, and obviously the count as they are more likely to chase w/ 2 strikes), and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between that and the cpu contact slider.

The only correlation I could find was between consistent "closeness" of pitches to the strike zone, which only increased swing % on balls ever so slightly (and decreased swing % on strikes about the same amount)

Like I said earlier, on a whole I wish the cpu batters would chase a little more often, but thus far I haven't seen anything that really influences that too much (perhaps increasing the amount of break... I haven't played around with that slider yet)... Other than that, I'd attribute it more to random variation due to a small sample size

that said, 65 could work fine based on your pitch meter speed lol

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

I really wish they had a "take strike' and "take ball' slider like MVP did.

[Blazzen]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

well based on all my testing, the swing % on balls vs strikes stays relatively consistant over time (however, it could vary a decent amount game to game. A lot depends on the batters, and obviously the count as they are more likely to chase w/ 2 strikes), and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between that and the cpu contact slider.

The only correlation I could find was between consistent "closeness" of pitches to the strike zone, which only increased swing % on balls ever so slightly (and decreased swing % on strikes about the same amount)

Like I said earlier, on a whole I wish the cpu batters would chase a little more often, but thus far I haven't seen anything that really influences that too much (perhaps increasing the amount of break... I haven't played around with that slider yet)... Other than that, I'd attribute it more to random variation due to a small sample size

that said, 65 could work fine based on your pitch meter speed lol

Even with cpu batting at 50 contact I'm getting over 10 k's per game with pitch meter at 75. This is with break influence at 65. I think the break influence does have to do with the number of strike outs so I'm going to lower it to 50 and will report the results in my slider thread.

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

Even with cpu batting at 50 contact I'm getting over 10 k's per game with pitch meter at 75. This is with break influence at 65. I think the break influence does have to do with the number of strike outs so I'm going to lower it to 50 and will report the results in my slider thread.

I have the CPU contact at 75 and meter at 50 and got 4 and 0 K's respectively. I'm betting somethin glike 60-65 contact would suffice.

[Hunkerdown]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

This is intriguing, but what exactly are you guys using for full slider set? Do not see it listed, only mentions of certain sliders; might help if someone posted full sliders being tested, so maybe we could help.

[Jistic]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

We're just testing and adjusting certain ones here and there, at least I know I am. Too early IMO to post any real set because I'm not happy yet.

[Matt10]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

Okay here is my video I made last night. Thanks to youtube and cyberlink, I had issues uploading.

Anyways, no judgement please. I'm not great, but I did enjoy this video commentary - think it covers what we are looking for. Hopefully the data can be collected through each video on waht we're looking for.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JJ_DNQVmoTo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rt5FzqodcQ8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qskDcNUoSso" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cknW4pLD5ow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xR54XzlRMms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eEs-_rZ_kAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Redemption]

Re: 100 Pitch Speed

good stuff matt... my first impression is that the cpu pitcher strike tendancy needs to come up probably to 40. 30 is just way too low. You chased a ton of pitches and they still threw too many balls... the more you play, the better your eye at the plate will get, and the more that 30 strike zone tendancy will stand out as being too low.

You mentioned contact probably needs to come down, and you may be right, but I also think cpu effectiveness will need to be bumped up to at least 50 when all is said and done, and I'd probably do those two things first and see what you think. Again, though, this will put added pressure on having a good eye at the plate as balls should be a little closer overall (your quality of contact on balls should also go down, which should reduce some of those hits).

Overall, power for the human seemed pretty good. You seemed to have a good mix of weak contact (those popups in the first couple innings come to mind) and solid line drives.

For your pitching, the first thing I have to ask is if you're using breakpoint or pinpoint accuracy, because the way you were throwing some of those two seemers/sliders you were aiming right down the middle if it was breakpoint aiming :P

that said, there were quite a few hittable balls that the cpu just didn't punish you on. Pitches down the middle with not so great effort (aka not close to filling the circle, or going way past the circle). I think the cpu power will need to be bumped up a bit.

You seemed to give into the hitters quite a bit, and that is something I'd like to see them capitalize on a little more often. I think you'd see a little more success if you tried to work the bottom of the zone a little more diligently instead of always aiming your pitches in the strike zone (even if they didn't end up there, it seems like with perfect accuracy 98% of your pitches would have been strikes lol). Dont be afraid to aim a pitch below the knees a little more often, that way if you miss high, you're not missing down the middle.

I know one complain jistic had was with the lack of swings and misses from the cpu, but I was happy to see them chase quite a few balls (and miss) outside the zone. It seems, given the amount I felt were hittable, that that area seemed pretty good. So for now I'm pretty comfortable keeping cpu contact at 85

As for pitch accuracy, I definitely like 35, as your pitcher seems to be a good balance being able to put it where you want it, and a bit innacurate. Those right stick gestures are really important in that regard, even on something simple like a fastball, being a little off on the right stick movement will result in those pitches going higher than you want, or missing in/out. One thing I like is that it is possible to control that "wildness" a bit with the right stick. For instance, on 2 seemers with the 12 to 9 movement (or 12 to 3, depending on right/lefty or cutter/2-seemer) with the right stick, I have a tendancy to overrotate closer to 8/7 oclock on the second motion. That results in the ball staying inside more to righties (if I have a righty pitcher)... so if I'm ahead in the count, I can make sure I don't leave the pitch fat and instead miss off the plate inside by intentionally overrotating just a little... likewise I can cut the 2nd movement short (at around 10 oclock) if I need to throw a strike (although usually, what I think is cutting my motion short, actually ends up perfect... so I've tought myself to rotate less than I think I have to, and my pitch usually ends up damn accurate lol)

So my advice would be to pay attention to how youre moving the stick, and where you're missing your pitches as a result. It can really help refine your accuracy, and improve your ability to paint the corners (and avoid missing to the heart of the plate)