Case for the HOF: John Franco

[dce1228]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

I overestimated his save total. He only had 144.

But he does have the one thing Franco could use-- that defining post-season moment.

Maybe they should have a plaque in the Hall dedicated to Met closers... Tug McGraw, Orosco, Franco...

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

As a huge Mets fan , I say NO, John was a solid player and person for the mets, but i have to say no, not a HOF in my opinion.

[CoRruPt-]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

I don't know... there are a lot of pitchers, and to me, closers seem like an overrated position. Relievers don't pitch as many innings as they used to back in the day. Yes, granted, this is a hitters dominated league nowadays, but I think starters would get the nod over closers. Unless he can do as much as Eck or Fingers, which is rare.

So all in all, I vote no.

[SPTO]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

I don't know... there are a lot of pitchers, and to me, closers seem like an overrated position. Relievers don't pitch as many innings as they used to back in the day. Yes, granted, this is a hitters dominated league nowadays, but I think starters would get the nod over closers. Unless he can do as much as Eck or Fingers, which is rare.

So all in all, I vote no.

Relievers never pitched as much as they pitch today. The era of relief pitching has just matured in the last few years. The relievers today are counted on much more today then they were 20-25 yrs ago.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

How could anyone think John Franco deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? People must just be looking at the numbers and never saw him play.

[SportsTop]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

Relievers never pitched as much as they pitch today. The era of relief pitching has just matured in the last few years. The relievers today are counted on much more today then they were 20-25 yrs ago.

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but Fingers played a much more vital role in his team's success than any of today's relievers do (save Rivera, Gagne, or Hoffman). He routinely pitched more innings and (just a cursory look) pitched in more games on average than today's relievers.

And let's not even bring Mike Marshall into this debate.

[SPTO]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but Fingers played a much more vital role in his team's success than any of today's relievers do (save Rivera, Gagne, or Hoffman). He routinely pitched more innings and (just a cursory look) pitched in more games on average than today's relievers.

And let's not even bring Mike Marshall into this debate.

Hmm you're prolly right but the emergence of the middle reliever has been huge in the last decade. In the past there was no real specialization. Starters lasted much longer in games then they do today.

[dieselboy]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

Franco was a closer his entire career. If you are referring to his career from '99-'05 then that is a moot point. He was 38 years old in '99 and past his effective prime for a non-strikeout type closer. He never possessed overwhelming speed and relied more on his stuff (screwball) as his out pitch.

Didn't he take a year or two before he was a full-time closer though?

I'm on the fence if he should be in.

[SportsTop]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

No one starts their career as a full-time closer.

Not Rivera, Hoffman, Gagne, K-Rod....none of them. They all usually start off behind someone and are worked into the closer role over time.

[dieselboy]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

No one starts their career as a full-time closer.

Not Rivera, Hoffman, Gagne, K-Rod....none of them. They all usually start off behind someone and are worked into the closer role over time.

A lot of failed starters, I understand that.

But you could say that Huston Street, a rookie, is a full-time closer for his career thus far. And wasn't Bruce Sutter a closer as a rookie till the end of his career? Rollie Fingers as well?

And there are many that only pitched one season before being put into the role.

[SportsTop]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

A lot of failed starters, I understand that.

But you could say that Huston Street, a rookie, is a full-time closer for his career thus far. And wasn't Bruce Sutter a closer as a rookie till the end of his career? Rollie Fingers as well?

And there are many that only pitched one season before being put into the role.

Fingers no. He started more than a few games early in his career. Sutter was a full-time reliever, but the closer role had not been defined in the late 70's and he was considered just a reliever.

Street may be the first of his kind, but even he didn't start the year (or his career) as a closer.

[dieselboy]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

Fingers no. He started more than a few games early in his career. Sutter was a full-time reliever, but the closer role had not been defined in the late 70's and he was considered just a reliever.

Street may be the first of his kind, but even he didn't start the year (or his career) as a closer.

Fingers I guess not, my memory is a little hazy. As for Sutter, yes the "closer" had not been defined, but he was still the team leader in saves from his rookie year until the year he retired, (besides a season of injury). Thats about as close as you can find as a full-time closer for his career.

As for Street, he was a closer in college. He was drafted, to be the closer for the A's, and in his first season with the team, he is now the closer, and has been since well before mid-season. If Street continues to do well, which I think he will, he will be a full-time closer for his career, including his rookie season.

[SportsTop]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

Fingers I guess not, my memory is a little hazy. As for Sutter, yes the "closer" had not been defined, but he was steal the team leader in saves from his rookie year until the year he retired, (besides a season of injury). Thats about as close as you can find as a full-time closer for his career.

As for Street, he was a closer in college. He was drafted, to be the closer for the A's, and in his first season with the team, he is now the closer, and has been since well before mid-season. If Street continues to do well, which I think he will, he will be a full-time closer for his career, including his rookie season.

Judging by the number of IP/G that Sutter pitched and his win/loss record it would seem to me that he came in around the 7th inning of his teams games. Not really what we define as a "closer" now days. He was a full-time reliever for his career, but I would be hesitant to call him a closer.

As I said, Street may be the first of his kind. He has 4 saves in 6 opportunities in 32 games. He just took job over.....not "well before mid-season".

[dieselboy]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

Judging by the number of IP/G that Sutter pitched and his win/loss record it would seem to me that he came in around the 7th inning of his teams games. Not really what we define as a "closer" now days. He was a full-time reliever for his career, but I would be hesitant to call him a closer.

As I said, Street may be the first of his kind. He has 4 saves in 6 opportunities in 32 games. He just took job over.....not "well before mid-season".

You to take into account that his teams were nothing special. He played what? Two seasons for a good team? Despite their struggles, Sutter was one of the best players on all those teams. So he may have been the closer the whole time, but as a special player, they used him in non-closing situations, in effort to win.

As for Street. He took the job over as of May 19th, when Dotel was hurt. So May 19th, thats about what, mid-way of the first half? I don't think he "just" took the job over. And they drafted him to be the closer. They traded for Dotel as a stop gap, until Street was major league ready. Rememeber, they drafted Huston while he was in the College World Series, and then still traded for Dotel, because they needed Dotel for '04.

[SportsTop]

Re: Case for the HOF: John Franco

You to take into account that his teams were nothing special. He played what? Two seasons for a good team? Despite their struggles, Sutter was one of the best players on all those teams. So he may have been the closer the whole time, but as a special player, they used him in non-closing situations, in effort to win.

Seeing as how there was no such thing as a "closer" in the beginning of his career, then I find it hard to classify him as one. Just as I would find it hard to classify Mike Marshall as a "closer".