Skip Bayless is clinically insane

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  • bender_over
    Pro
    • Mar 2003
    • 750

    #1

    Skip Bayless is clinically insane

    Last week he said Raffy isn't a Hall of Famer.

    This week on "Cold Pizza Crap" they were debating whether or not Smoltz is a Hall of Famer. Although he made the right choice by saying he is, he took it way too far, saying Smoltz is better than Roger Clemens.

    True, Smoltz spent 4 seasons as a closer, thus giving up 55-60 wins on his resume. But Smoltz has won 1 Cy Young to Clemens' 6. Clemens does have 308 more career starts, but he also has more than twice as many wins as Smoltz. Smoltz has won over 15 games twice while Clemens has done it 12 times.

    Skip Bayless is a joke.
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  • mjb2124
    Hall Of Fame
    • Aug 2002
    • 13649

    #2
    Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

    Smoltz better than Clemens?

    Sigh.... Bayless needs to stop sniffing whatever it is that he's sniffing. Clemens is one of the best pitchers to ever toe the rubber. Smoltz is very good, but I wouldn't put him in Roger's class (very few are).

    Comment

    • deeman11747
      G-M*nnnn
      • Feb 2003
      • 3194

      #3
      Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

      Originally posted by joeboo
      Smoltz better than Clemens?

      Sigh.... Bayless needs to stop sniffing whatever it is that he's sniffing. Clemens is one of the best pitchers to ever toe the rubber. Smoltz is very good, but I wouldn't put him in Roger's class (very few are).
      Agreed... the only 2 guys you could say came somewhat close to Roger Clemens skill level at one point in their careers was Pedro Martinez in his prime and Randy Johnson in his prime.

      Comment

      • Stu
        All Star
        • Jun 2004
        • 7924

        #4
        Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

        Originally posted by deeman11747
        Agreed... the only 2 guys you could say came somewhat close to Roger Clemens skill level at one point in their careers was Pedro Martinez in his prime and Randy Johnson in his prime.
        As much as I hate Roger, I agree, although I'd add Maddux to that list.
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        • poster
          All Star
          • Nov 2003
          • 7506

          #5
          Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

          Skip Bayless ia an a**clown. He just writes the garbage to get a rise out of people. And yes Maddux definetly has the skill level of a Clemens, Pedro, Johnson.

          Comment

          • elicoleman
            Im The Baby/Gotta Love Me
            • Sep 2002
            • 34655

            #6
            Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

            Why the hell does ESPN continue to keep this old fart around? He's a jackass and a moron.
            Originally posted by CardsFan27
            This is the 3rd time John Calipari has been to his first Final Four!
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            • TheMatrix31
              RF
              • Jul 2002
              • 52920

              #7
              Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

              As good as Smoltz is...........it's only Maddux that should be involved in Clemens' status discussions.

              Comment

              • DuffysCliff
                Rookie
                • Jan 2004
                • 294

                #8
                Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                Originally posted by deeman11747
                Agreed... the only 2 guys you could say came somewhat close to Roger Clemens skill level at one point in their careers was Pedro Martinez in his prime and Randy Johnson in his prime.
                Pedro Martinez in his prime is way better than Roger Clemens at any point of his career. In fact, Pedro Martinez in his prime was the best pitcher ever. Well, maybe.

                In his career, Roger Clemens has 2 years where he had a ERA+ over 200. Pedro has had 4, including one season where his ERA+ was 285 (2000), which is the best season ever for a pitcher in the modern day era. It's the second best all time, the only season that was better was in 1880 by Tim O' Keefe. Pedro's second best season in 1999 is 9th all time with 245. Greg Maddux has the 4th and is tied for the 5th best seasons ever in ERA+. Pedro also owns the best career ERA+ at 167, a whole 19 points above anyone else.

                Back to Pedro's incredible 99-00 seasons though.

                In 1999 Pedro led the AL in least hits allowed through 9 IP with 6.75. The next closest person had 7.63. He also led the AL in strikeouts by 113. He was second in the AL with BB through 9 with 1.56, only trailing by .03. That led to an amazing K/BB ratio of about 8.46 to 1. The next closest person in the AL was 3.44 to 1. This is the 9th best all time K/BB ratio. Roger Clemens has never had a season where his K/BB was in the top 100 of all time. Pedro Martinez has 3 years in the top 40. Pedro's 13.205 SO/9IP ratio is second all time. He also allowed only 9 home runs all year. He really should have won the MVP this year, except a NY writer left him completely off his ballot. His ERA probably should have been even lower too, but he was pretty unlucky with balls that were put in play, as opponents had a .329 BAIP again him.


                In 2000 Pedro led the AL in ERA by nearly 2 whole points as he had a ERA of 1.74. Roger Clemens of all people was 2nd with a 3.70 ERA. He allowed only 5.31 hits allowed through 9 IP, leading the league (both AL and NL) by 1.58. This was the 4th best season ever in hits allowed/9IP. Once again he was second in BB/9IP with 1.33, trailing by .12 this time. His SO to walk ratio was 8.88, which is 6th best all time. Pedro didn't strike out as many guys as in 99, but he still led the rest of the AL by 72 with 284.

                A case can be made that Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux were better than Clemens in their prime as well.

                Comment

                • Stu
                  All Star
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 7924

                  #9
                  Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                  Originally posted by DuffysCliff
                  Pedro Martinez in his prime is way better than Roger Clemens at any point of his career. In fact, Pedro Martinez in his prime was the best pitcher ever. Well, maybe.
                  Preach it brother. People like to forget how good Pedro was in his prime. I have no problems saying he's the best pitcher I've ever seen or will ever see.
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                  Comment

                  • deeman11747
                    G-M*nnnn
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 3194

                    #10
                    Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                    Originally posted by camulos
                    Preach it brother. People like to forget how good Pedro was in his prime. I have no problems saying he's the best pitcher I've ever seen or will ever see.
                    Pedro in his prime was the one pitcher besides Unit that I was terrified for the Yankees to face. Going into the 99 ALCS I was wondering how we'd fare against him.

                    He had this look in his eye that showed he knew he was better than you. I'm guessing from just too much work throghout his career, he kind of faded a little for the next couple of years and although he's pretty dominant this year, he nowhere near what he was in 99-00.

                    Comment

                    • bravosfan
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 5184

                      #11
                      Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                      I loved Buster Olney's reaction when Skip said that, because it was the same as mine. "What!?"

                      I'm a big Smoltz fan, and if he hadn't had so many injuries maybe he'd have had a chance to be comporable to Clemens. But the fact is Clemens has nearly twice as many wins as Smoltz, and about 2,000 more innings & strikeouts. That is significant.

                      Bayless appears to be one of those guys who thinks the playoffs are everything, and in his mind Smoltz's dominance in October outweighs Clemens' overwhelming superiority in just about every other category you can think of. It's the same arguement he made against Palmeiro.

                      Though I do seem to recall a particular game in 1999, Game 4 of the World Series. Smoltz was pitching on basically guts alone and struck out 13 in 7 innings. But Clemens and the Yankees came out on top... I wish I could forget that game, the whole series for that matter.

                      Comment

                      • Jimplication
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 3591

                        #12
                        Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                        Originally posted by elicoleman
                        Why the hell does ESPN continue to keep this old fart around? He's a jackass and a moron.
                        He's also guaranteed to be a popular voice through his stupidity. He says stupid things, knowing people will react to logic, and thus he is popular by those that enoying proving him wrong; which isn't too difficult, but is enjoyable all the while.

                        It's a pretty cheap, but successful way, of getting ratings.
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                        • Scottdau
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 32580

                          #13
                          Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                          I get tired of Skip, he says alot of stupid things. Smotz was as good as clemens in his prime (in my opinion) plus smotz had to many good pitchers on his team. But know one played better than him in the big games. Injury played a big part. I don't know how Raff is not a first vote in the hof. Look at his numbers. He gets no love from the press, because he doesn't play for a big market team.

                          Comment

                          • mjb2124
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 13649

                            #14
                            Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                            Pedro was great in his prime. However, I take career over prime when I look at players. Dealing with players primes can be tricky at times. Heck, Cecil Fielder had a very good prime. However, I wouldn't pit his career against a Palmiero.

                            Clemens career has been one of the best ever IMO. I think that's my problem with what Bayless said (or what was posted at least). He said Smoltz was better than Clemens. No way....not when viewing a player's entire career. I'm sure Smoltz had a few years better than Roger, but when comparing their overall careers, it's a no brainer.

                            I agree that Pedro had some GREAT years. He was one of my favorite pitchers during that stretch.

                            Comment

                            • Autoproxy
                              Rookie
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 371

                              #15
                              Re: Skip Bayless is clinically insane

                              How is everyone in this thread agreeing that Smoltz is a sure-fire HOFer? He's been a very good pitcher, and a great one at times, and has NASTY stuff...but he's not a HOFer in my eyes, and at 38 with an extensive injury history, he probably won't make it. Going into this season - 160-123 record...his ERA over his career is 25% better than the league average in that time...only 3 times was he considered one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL (top 10 finishes in Cy Young awards...all 3 were top 5, including the one win), 4 all-star seasons as a starter and 2 as a closer.

                              Yes, he's been a very good pitcher, and great at times. Yes, he's been fantastic in the postseason, which is extremely impressive. But he's basically in the same class as David Cone...a pitcher you'd pray to have on your team, a pitcher you'd pray not to have to face your team, but not an all-time great.

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