Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

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  • Thrasha
    MVP
    • Nov 2004
    • 3374

    #1

    Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....



    Did any other Sox fans or SABR enthusiasts pick this book up?

    I've only read a few chapters thus far, but their is already some pretty good stuff. I finally got a clear explanation as to what VORP/VARP is, although I am still a little shakey on it.

    The highlight so far in the first few chapters, for me at least, is the estimation of the W/L record of both the Yankees and the Red Sox had ARod actually gone to the Sox, along with Magglio Ordonez. And the Yankees finding other means to fill their 3B hole (which they thought would have been Joe Randa).
    Last edited by Thrasha; 10-06-2005, 05:32 PM.
    “Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield
  • BigRed
    MVP
    • May 2003
    • 1683

    #2
    Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

    So, it tells all about how the Red Sox got smart (I thought they were idiots?), won a World Series, and then got swept in the first round the next year?

    That's the blueprint?
    Pecos Pete

    Comment

    • Thrasha
      MVP
      • Nov 2004
      • 3374

      #3
      Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

      Originally posted by BigRed
      So, it tells all about how the Red Sox got smart (I thought they were idiots?), won a World Series, and then got swept in the first round the next year?

      That's the blueprint?

      funny
      “Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield

      Comment

      • Stu
        All Star
        • Jun 2004
        • 7924

        #4
        Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

        I havn't gotten it yet but this is on my growing list of baseball books to read. The guys at Baseball Prospectus know what they're talking about. Some of the methods they use to analyze the game is well beyond my understanding but most of its interesting.
        Sim Gaming Network

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        • CWood2
          TNA & WWE thanks you
          • May 2004
          • 4356

          #5
          Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

          Actually had not heard about this book until you brought it up Thrasha. I have some catching up to do with Scout's Honor, but when that's done, I'll definitely pick this up.

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          • Stu
            All Star
            • Jun 2004
            • 7924

            #6
            Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

            Originally posted by CWood2
            Actually had not heard about this book until you brought it up Thrasha. I have some catching up to do with Scout's Honor, but when that's done, I'll definitely pick this up.
            Scout's Honor is also on my list, along with License to Deal by Jerry Crasnick.
            Sim Gaming Network

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            • Thrasha
              MVP
              • Nov 2004
              • 3374

              #7
              Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

              Originally posted by camulos
              Scout's Honor is also on my list, along with License to Deal by Jerry Crasnick.
              License To Deal is one of the things I asked for for my birthday.

              I probably would have picked that one up today but then I saw Mind Game.

              How is Scout's Honor? I want to read that one too. I saw it on Cold Pizza and it's basically, from what they said, an argument against the whole "moneyball" way of thinking.
              “Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield

              Comment

              • Stu
                All Star
                • Jun 2004
                • 7924

                #8
                Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                Originally posted by Thrasha

                How is Scout's Honor? I want to read that one too. I saw it on Cold Pizza and it's basically, from what they said, an argument against the whole "moneyball" way of thinking.
                I think its more against the SABR way of thinking than Moneyball. Cwood knows a lot more about it than I do though.
                Sim Gaming Network

                Comment

                • soltrain
                  The Batman
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 6863

                  #9
                  Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                  Originally posted by camulos
                  The guys at Baseball Prospectus know what they're talking about.


                  No they don't. There is a lot more to the game than just stats.

                  The "guys who know what they are talking about" predicted the White Sox to finish with 71 wins this year.
                  Michigan Wolverines
                  Chicago White Sox

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                  • Thrasha
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 3374

                    #10
                    Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                    BTW

                    101 - 61 Red Sox
                    97 - 68 Yankees

                    Was the estimated record had the Red Sox dealt for ARod and Magglio. This was figured with all the stats for each player remaining the same except just in a different uniform. They thought Manny Delcarmen would have then been dealt for Jeromy Burnitz once it was clear Maggs couldn't play the year out.
                    “Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield

                    Comment

                    • Thrasha
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 3374

                      #11
                      Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                      Originally posted by camulos
                      I think its more against the SABR way of thinking than Moneyball. Cwood knows a lot more about it than I do though.

                      That's what I meant. I'm in the habit of calling the SABR mentality as just "Moneyball".
                      “Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield

                      Comment

                      • bergie56
                        T*rg*t F**ld
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 3984

                        #12
                        Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                        Originally posted by BigRed
                        So, it tells all about how the Red Sox got smart (I thought they were idiots?), won a World Series, and then got swept in the first round the next year?

                        That's the blueprint?
                        Trolling is against the TOS and I dont see what your problem is. You sound either bitter or jealous about something....I am going to go ahead and guess it's a little of both.

                        Thrasha you will have to let me know how the book is. After hearing you describe Moneyball I have been meaning to pick it up.
                        Last edited by bergie56; 10-06-2005, 06:13 PM.

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                        • Stu
                          All Star
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 7924

                          #13
                          Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                          Originally posted by soltrain
                          No they don't. There is a lot more to the game than just stats.

                          The "guys who know what they are talking about" predicted the White Sox to finish with 71 wins this year.
                          Yup there is but stats are a very good indicator of how a team will perform. Nobody is perfect all the time and to discredit them because they didn't pick the White Sox to do well this year is just dumb.
                          Sim Gaming Network

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                          • Stu
                            All Star
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 7924

                            #14
                            Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                            Originally posted by Thrasha
                            That's what I meant. I'm in the habit of calling the SABR mentality as just "Moneyball".
                            Yah I do too. I just like to be specific because people often don't understand the difference between the two. Just ask Joe Morgan.
                            Sim Gaming Network

                            Comment

                            • CWood2
                              TNA & WWE thanks you
                              • May 2004
                              • 4356

                              #15
                              Re: Mind Game: How the Red Sox got smart.....

                              Originally posted by Thrasha
                              License To Deal is one of the things I asked for for my birthday.

                              I probably would have picked that one up today but then I saw Mind Game.

                              How is Scout's Honor? I want to read that one too. I saw it on Cold Pizza and it's basically, from what they said, an argument against the whole "moneyball" way of thinking.
                              I just haven't had much time to read it, but I'm about half way through and it's a great read, especially from someone who's been a Braves fan when they're not playing Boston since '91.

                              Briefly, yes, it's a rebuttal to Moneyball in that the title and many of the chapters are structured into restoring credibility to scouts. Certainly the Braves have had great success in their division title streak, and it just walks you through how their system is set up and how makeup can be just as important as OBP. I think the use of saber tactics is essential, but I also think Moneyball put an extreme spin on it, so this book comes from the other end and really evens out your views. You can see through the shots at the A's easy enough, so read it knowing its intentions and learn how the Braves have done it. As I said in another thread, the two teams are probably closer in idealogy than they think.

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