Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

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  • TheLetterZ
    All Star
    • Jul 2002
    • 6752

    #16
    Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

    I didn't say Wells was bad, but he's a league-average hitter. Abreu is one of the best hitters in baseball and steals 30 bases a year. Abreu does absolutely every aspect of hitting better. He hits for average, while Wells doesn't. He draws walks, while Wells doesn't. He's an even better slugger than Wells is. I don't care if Wells is Willie Mays in center and Abreu is worse than Greg Luzinski defensively.

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    • SlimKibbles
      Supporter
      • Apr 2004
      • 7276

      #17
      Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

      Originally posted by ZXLT
      I think this trade would be horrible for the Phillies. I know a lot of people here in Philly hate Abreu, but he's a much better player than Wells. Wells is 4 years younger but he's been not even close to Abreu at the plate. Wells has had 1 season where he's been even an above-average hitter.

      I understand if Gillick thinks it would be better to open up right field for Howard is possible, even if I disagree with the notion, but there has to be someone out there better than Wells. Abreu is one of the elite hitters in baseball.
      I don't understand why they would trade him. Also, why do a lot of Phillies fans hate Abreu?
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      • Vince
        Bow for Bau
        • Aug 2002
        • 26017

        #18
        Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

        I don't understand why they would trade him. Also, why do a lot of Phillies fans hate Abreu?
        I've heard that he's too non-chalant.
        @ me or dap me

        http://twitter.com/52isthemike

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        • TheLetterZ
          All Star
          • Jul 2002
          • 6752

          #19
          Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

          Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
          I've heard that he's too non-chalant.
          They think he's too non-chalant in the outfield and on the basepaths, and his stats are shallow because he only produces when it doesn't matter. Neither point do I agree with.

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          • Programmed2Kill
            Banned
            • Jul 2002
            • 14644

            #20
            Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

            Originally posted by EspecialK
            I don't understand why they would trade him. Also, why do a lot of Phillies fans hate Abreu?

            He's an awful fielder. He can't judge fly balls. Plus, he lacks hustle while out there.

            And he becomes an bad hitter when the game is on the line. He will strike out or hit it straight to the fielder. He gets all his wonderful stats in the early innings or during the early part of the season. Pressure time, he doesn't show up. That whole playoff run, you heard nothing from Abreu. It was all Utley, Howard and Burrell.

            Simply...there is no urgency in his game.

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            • TheLetterZ
              All Star
              • Jul 2002
              • 6752

              #21
              Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

              Originally posted by Programmed2Kill
              He's an awful fielder. He can't judge fly balls. Plus, he lacks hustle while out there.

              And he becomes an bad hitter when the game is on the line. He will strike out or hit it straight to the fielder. He gets all his wonderful stats in the early innings or during the early part of the season. Pressure time, he doesn't show up. That whole playoff run, you heard nothing from Abreu. It was all Utley, Howard and Burrell.

              Simply...there is no urgency in his game.
              Abreu slowed down a lot in the 2nd half of the season; no one can argue that. You're wrong to characterize that as being typical of Abreu; however, the previous 3 years, he was better in the 2nd half of the season than the 1st. And I don't necessarily agree that he didn't show up when it mattered. If he doesn't carry the team on his back in May, there is no playoff race.

              I still disagree with the clutch argument. .298/.383/.571 in "Close and Late" situations. .303/.444/.500 with RISP. .294/.333/.824 with the bases loaded.

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              • Programmed2Kill
                Banned
                • Jul 2002
                • 14644

                #22
                Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

                Originally posted by ZXLT
                Abreu slowed down a lot in the 2nd half of the season; no one can argue that. You're wrong to characterize that as being typical of Abreu; however, the previous 3 years, he was better in the 2nd half of the season than the 1st. And I don't necessarily agree that he didn't show up when it mattered. If he doesn't carry the team on his back in May, there is no playoff race.

                I still disagree with the clutch argument. .298/.383/.571 in "Close and Late" situations. .303/.444/.500 with RISP. .294/.333/.824 with the bases loaded.

                And then when a couple of important series come up, he is a no-show. Not saying he is the only one, but he is supposed to be the best player on the team. As for May, agreed. His play during the spring was crucial to the team. But after the All-Star break, he crumbled.


                There is no denying his numbers. They will always be incredible. But watching every game tells me otherwise. Same with his fielding.

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                • VanCitySportsGuy
                  NYG_Meth
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 9351

                  #23
                  Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

                  - LOL at the fact Abreu won a GG. Some of the writers were sniffing glue.
                  - Trying Howard in the OF will be a disaster. I don't even know why management would even consider it. He tried to play in the OF in the minors for a brief period and he was awful. Howard already said he prefers to stick at 1B.

                  - Abreu for Wells is a good deal for the Jays if you're only looking at talent alone. But in general the deal doesn't any sense. Abreu is owed 30 mil in the next 2 seasons while Wells is owed 9.9 mil. The Jays don't have anybody else on their current roster to play CF and there's nobody in the minors ready to step in. The FA market is thin.

                  The Jays are better off using the difference in salary to go after Giles. Now on the other hand, Batista/Hinkse/Chacin for Abreu is a deal I like. But of course Gillick would never go for it.

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                  • Vince
                    Bow for Bau
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26017

                    #24
                    Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

                    But AF, if the Phils eat 5 million then this deal becomes plausible. Add in the fact that Vernon is in for a huge pay raise(or at least he'll demand a lot) and it's kind of a wash. Bobby only has 2 years left on his deal.
                    @ me or dap me

                    http://twitter.com/52isthemike

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                    • TheLetterZ
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 6752

                      #25
                      Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

                      Originally posted by Programmed2Kill
                      And then when a couple of important series come up, he is a no-show. Not saying he is the only one, but he is supposed to be the best player on the team. As for May, agreed. His play during the spring was crucial to the team. But after the All-Star break, he crumbled.


                      There is no denying his numbers. They will always be incredible. But watching every game tells me otherwise. Same with his fielding.
                      Just agree to disagree then. No one comes up huge in every series; it was unfortunate that he didn't come through in the last couple series but I don't really fault him for it.

                      What about the stats that I posted though? I've never understood the counter-argument to that; maybe you can help me out there.

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                      • Skerik
                        Living in this tube
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 5215

                        #26
                        Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

                        It bears mentioning that Abreu was clearly playing hurt towards the end of last season and still played all 162 games. He had nothing in the tank and was swinging through pitches that he was mashing the whole rest of the season. So to say he's a poor second half player because his performance down the stretch last year is pretty unfair, imo.

                        September 2004: .326/.483/.500
                        September 2003: .308/.432/.407
                        September 2002: .366/.455/.591
                        Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
                        Dash: [muttering] Which is another way of saying no one is.

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                        • TheLetterZ
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 6752

                          #27
                          Re: Phillies trying to Bobby Abreu

                          Thank you. I don't understand why Manuel didn't at least give Abreu a couple days off, especially when Michaels and Lofton were both producing late in the year.

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                          • VanCitySportsGuy
                            NYG_Meth
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 9351

                            #28
                            Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

                            Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
                            But AF, if the Phils eat 5 million then this deal becomes plausible. Add in the fact that Vernon is in for a huge pay raise(or at least he'll demand a lot) and it's kind of a wash. Bobby only has 2 years left on his deal.
                            Well both players have 2 years left on their deal. I would rather throw in Hinske to free up a roster spot than ask the Phillies to eat 5 mil per season on Abreu's contract.

                            But even with that said, I wouldn't make that trade unless I had a deal in place for Juan Pierre, and either Giles or Glaus.

                            Jeff Blair said a Abreu/Wells type trade wouldn't happen.

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                            • Skerik
                              Living in this tube
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 5215

                              #29
                              Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

                              Hey, I don't understand why Manuel did or didn't do a lot of things....
                              Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
                              Dash: [muttering] Which is another way of saying no one is.

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                              • TheLetterZ
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 6752

                                #30
                                Re: Phillies trying to trade Bobby Abreu

                                Yeah, don't even get me started on Manuel... I'd be here typing for days.

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