Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Which is the exact argument I would make, that Ortiz's clutch hitting more than accounts for Arod's defense. I do agree with you though, ARod is absolutely deserving of the MVP. I just don't like the way its decided, since the writers have obvious bias in their choices. That and it has a history of Red Sox players getting jobbed.

Red Sox fans and players have always been jobbed of something give me a break. Yes Ortiz can get the clutch hit but he can't get the clutch stop or the steal like dave roberts did for you, arod could easily stop an double going down the line with his defense only ortiz could stop is a gatorade cooler from falling down in the dugout defense is so important and since arod can hit and do defense he definetly deserved it more then ortiz

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Agreed, see my comments earlier on Ted Williams and Pedro. Ted was notoriously hated by writers and thus didn't win the MVP when he won either of his triple crowns or batted .406. Pedro was very similar and the bias of a few writers cost him the MVP.

I don't think the voters are just biased against the DH rule, but the current voting system certainly highlights everything the voters are biased against. This MVP race was more about finding excuses not to give it to Ortiz rather than why to give it to A-Rod. It was the same argument when Pedro finished 2nd. (Not saying people are out to get the Red Sox, but these are the races that i've followed more closely so feel more qualified to comment on them)

Isn't a cy young award enough how many pitchers have won the mvp award to begin with

[Stu]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Isn't a cy young award enough how many pitchers have won the mvp award to begin with

Enough have won to make Pedro, having arguably one of the best seasons ever by a pitcher, worthy of an MVP. Obviously enough people considered him the MVP to give him the most 1st place votes.

EDIT - Sadly he was even better in 2000 but since he didnt have over 20 wins and didn't have over 300 K's he only finished 5th with 0 1st place votes.

[Thrasha]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

On the admittedly partisan, Red Sox-oriented Sons of Sam Horn site, frequent contributor Eric Van has laid out some truly startling evidence. He found that A-Rod was vastly more productive in the Yankees' blowout wins than he was in games where a hit either way was the difference between winning and losing.

In the 20 games each of their teams won by six or more runs, A-Rod hit .549, had an OPS of 1.793 and racked up 46 of his 130 RBI (35 percent). Ortiz, on the other hand, batted .277, had an OPS almost 800 points lower than A-Rod's (.999) and drove in only 33 runs (22 percent of his overall total).

But in close games (games that either went to extra innings or were decided by one or two runs in regulation), the numbers look a whole lot different.

In those games -- and each team played exactly 65 of them -- A-Rod batted only .243, had an OPS of .805 and drove in just 38 runs (29 percent). Ortiz, meanwhile, clearly tapped some mysterious force that made him even better in moments like that -- batting .321, running up an OPS of 1.116 and knocking in nearly a run a game (62 -- or 42 percent of his overall total).

An excerpt from a Jayson Stark article on espn.com

Pretty sick numbers for Papi, some pretty obvious stat padding for Slappy.

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Aight since i dont know who won it before compare the stats for the pitcher mvps and pedro's season your going for

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

An excerpt from a Jayson Stark article on espn.com

Pretty sick numbers for Papi, some pretty obvious stat padding for Slappy.

I bet it wouldn't matter if papi was a twin and arod a ranger, just bitter red sox fans as always

[Thrasha]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

I bet it wouldn't matter if papi was a twin and arod a ranger, just bitter red sox fans as always

Yeah, clutch hitting should be disregarded. Whats wrong with ARod has done in the last 9 postseason games? It's not like coming up big for your team really matters anyway. Give me the guy that hits the grandslam in the blowout, over the one that consistently gets the game winning hit.

[Stu]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Aight since i dont know who won it before compare the stats for the pitcher mvps and pedro's season your going for

I won't list the closers since they aren't relevant and it's difficult to compare the stats since some are from different eras, but anyways. (ERA+ compares the pitcher's ERA to the league ERA. The higher, the better)

1968 - Gibson - ERA+ of 258, K/BB of 268/62, 22-9
1968 - McLain - ERA+ of 154, K/BB of 280/63, 31-6
1986 - Clemens - ERA+ of 169, K/BB of 238/67, 24-4
1999 - Pedro - ERA+ of 245, K/BB of 313/37, 23-4

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Yeah, clutch hitting should be disregarded. Whats wrong with ARod has done in the last 9 postseason games? It's not like coming up big for your team really matters anyway. Give me the guy that hits the grandslam in the blowout, over the one that consistently gets the game winning hit.

get me the guy who can make plays then the guy sitting on the bench poppin bubble gum

[Kashanova]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

I won't list the closers since they aren't relevant and it's difficult to compare the stats since some are from different eras, but anyways. (ERA+ compares the pitcher's ERA to the league ERA. The higher, the better)

1968 - Gibson - ERA+ of 258, K/BB of 268/62, 22-9
1968 - McLain - ERA+ of 154, K/BB of 280/63, 31-6
1986 - Clemens - ERA+ of 169, K/BB of 238/67, 24-4
1999 - Pedro - ERA+ of 245, K/BB of 313/37, 23-4

Mclain definetly deserved it more gibson im so/so on clemens had a monster year but also i looked at pudge's year and yeah pedro deserved it more then pudge your right

[glucklich]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Actually, Papi probably should have won but its not like a case cant be made for ARod even though he's a paper tiger.

[Misfit]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

It's off topic, but yeah it was a joke when Pedro did not win the MVP award. I think its real for a pitcher to win an MVP, and the fact that Pedro did more than enough to deserve the award, and didn't get it, really upset me as a baseball fan, not just a Red Sox fan. His seasons in 1999 and 2000 are arguably two of the greatest statistical seasons ever thrown by a pitcher. It wasn't that long ago, but it seems like a lot of people have already forgotten just how great he was. He was also snubbed of the Cy Young award in 2002 because the writer's didn't like that he skipped his last start because the Red Sox were out of contention.

[Thrasha]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

out of curiosity, does anyone have the stat of runs prevented above areplacement level player for ARod?

[southside_hitmen]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

out of curiosity, does anyone have the stat of runs prevented above areplacement level player for ARod?

Not that one, but I got some other ones.
FPCT- .971
FPCT for average player - .957
Range Factor per games played - 2.50
AVG Range Factor per games played - 2.49
Range Factor per 9 innings - 2.62
AVG Range Factor per 9 innings - 2.76

[southside_hitmen]

Re: Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

Ortiz .300/.397/.604/1.003
Arod .321/.421/.610/1.031

Ortiz did not deserve to win the MVP. If there is any argument to be made, it's for second place. Travis Hafner could have easily been second.

I gotta go with A-Rod on this one. If the award for Clutch player of the year it would have went to Papi, but it's essentially the League MVP award. I think that the MLB does need to do a better job defining what an MVP is. Is it most valuable to his team? Or most valuable to any team? If it's most valuable to any team, you have to go with A-Rod. He is higher in AVG, OBP, SLG, and OPS. He is not getting out as many times as Papi is. In doing so he is letting the guy behind him hit as well, which gives his team more of an opportunity to score runs than Papi's team. Also, Papi doesn't play the field, while A-Rod is at the very least an above-average fielder. Also, A-Rod runs the bases well and has an above average arm. Papi just hits.

We can talk about how well each did in the postseason, but only the regular season counts in MVP voting. For a person to say A-Rod isn't clutch is a somewhat valid statement. However, the ESPN writer said that A-Rod got many more runs when the Yankees won games big, the thing he doesn't consider is that odds are that A-Rod either got them that big lead or increased it once they got it, which made the Yankees win big.

All that being said, if I am a pitcher there is maybe two other players in the Majors I wouldn't want to see at the plate over Big Papi, and that's Pujols and Bonds.