Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

Aren't we all just a little too quick to hop on the Brian Roberts bandwagon? Sure, he was having a breakout year offensively last year, but let's not be so quick to judge him as a sure-fire producer just let. His offensive numbers prior to '05 were quite mediocre.

Yes, they are. He was unreal for the first half of 2005, but seriously cooled off in the second half. You take that, along with the fact that he was in a gruesome accident that resulted in a fractured arm, and to me, he's not even in the same league as an Utley, M. Giles, Kent, and maybe even Loretta. There are also quiet rumors that he's not recovered from the arm injury, and there could be unrecoverable damage.

I sure as hell won't be touching BRob on fantasy draft day, unless he slips to the 20th round again...

To get back to Utley...All the roto projectionists are riding his sack pretty heavily this year. Tough for me to say for sure because I haven't really seen him play that much. On paper, his numbers certainly look nice though. Just off the top of my head, he'd have to be a no brainer top 3 second baseman.

I don't see the 'O-Dawg' in this discussion, primarily because, if he was so good, why would Toronto move him? They'd move Aaron Hill (I think) if Hudson was that good. Clearly, they didn't think Hudson was better than Hill, so Hudson is now gone.

[Stoud]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

Aren't we all just a little too quick to hop on the Brian Roberts bandwagon? Sure, he was having a breakout year offensively last year, but let's not be so quick to judge him as a sure-fire producer just let. His offensive numbers prior to '05 were quite mediocre.

Mediocre? I dunno, maybe my definition of Mediocre is just different. I consider a .260 average to be mediocre. He was close, maybe, but I'd say he passed with decent offensive numbers with averages in the .270s. Infact, before last year that was fast becoming his overall average (which is to say that each year he was racking up a steady .270 AVG). Basically...just for his D WITH THAT kind of offensive production, I'd STILL want him on my team. Even with that AVG, he's still probably in the top...err...top 10 (around 6 or 7) of his league for Second Basemen. Now with his recent outbreak? I wouldn't expect him to come back and hit 20 jacks this season, but .290-.300 avg? probable. Especially after...wat was it that caused his outbreak again? new contacts?

[EaglesFan]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

No, this isn't a joke. He's one of the best all around second baseman in baseball. I'd say at least top 5, maybe top 3 on some peoples lists.

[Stu]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

2005 VORP:
Roberts - 69.4
Utley - 62.3
Kent - 60.5
Giles - 48.8
Soriano - 47.8
Ellis - 41.9
Cantu - 39.3
....
Hudson - 17.4


I think saying Utley is one of the games best second basemen is pretty fair. I'm just waiting for the White Sox fans to start screaming "Iguchi!"

[EaglesFan]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

LOL @ VORP

http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/woolner/vorpdescnew.htm (in case you're unfamiliar).

Some stats crack me up, and this isn't familiar to a lot of fans.

[BGarrett7]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

VORP could be the single stupidest stat in sport's history.

[Stu]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

VORP could be the single stupidest stat in sport's history.

People used to say that about OBP and SLG too. A lot of very smart people think otherwise.

[Sully]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

.291
28 HR
105 RBI
93 Runs
16 SB
.376 OBP
.540 Slugging %

There isn't another second baseman in the league that I'd take over Utley at this point. This was his first full year in the league, although he started the season platooning with Polanco.

[cch99]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

I think Utley has to do it again this year. This would be his first full year as the starter in Philly. If he hits around .300 with 30+ homers and 100 RBI's he will definitely be one of the guys considered as the best. The good thing is he still young so even if he hits like .270-.280 has say 25 HRs and 80 RbI's he will still be better than a lot of 2nd baseman and have tons of room to grow and keep improving.

I just never like to get my hopes up with the Phils. I mean a few years ago they were set at centerfield with Marlon Byrd coming up. He hits .300 his rookie year. Not alot of power but definite potential. Then he just collapses. I think Utley is better than Byrd but the potential for a bust/letdown is always there.

It's happened over and over to the Phillies: Kevin Stocker, Ricky Jordan, multiple pitchers, etc.

Hopefully Ryan Howard has a huge year too.

[Stu]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

I think Utley has to do it again this year. This would be his first full year as the starter in Philly. If he hits around .300 with 30+ homers and 100 RBI's he will definitely be one of the guys considered as the best. The good thing is he still young so even if he hits like .270-.280 has say 25 HRs and 80 RbI's he will still be better than a lot of 2nd baseman and have tons of room to grow and keep improving.

I think you're being too conservative. Utley played 147 games last year with 543 at bats, 8th among 2B. That's more than enough to be considered a full season, even if he was platooning with Polanco for the first month or so. Also, .300 30+HR, 100 RBI's wouldnt make him be "considered as the best," it would put him far beyond anyone else at his position.

I'm in agreement with Sully, there isn't another 2B I'd rather have.

[EaglesFan]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

.291
28 HR
105 RBI
93 Runs
16 SB
.376 OBP
.540 Slugging %

There isn't another second baseman in the league that I'd take over Utley at this point. This was his first full year in the league, although he started the season platooning with Polanco.

And stats are only 1/3rd of this argument. He's smart on the basepaths, he's a great first ball fast ball hitter, and he hustles big time, he's good defensively. He plays the game the way it should be played. Like I said, all around 2nd baseman.

[Misfit]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

Roberts had his break-out year last season, but he was pretty decent heading into 2005. He was a .270 hitter coming off a year in which he hit 50 doubles and had 20+ steals all while playing solid defense. He's a good second baseman and even if he doesn't come out and hit 18 homers in 2006 he should still be in the top 5.

The thing that jumps out at me about Utley are his home and away splits. He actually had a higher slugging percentage on the road than at home at Coors Light. He's just a flat-out good hitter, but needs to cut down on his strikeouts some if he wants to hit towards the top of the order (though if he can hit 30 homers consistently, he's probably better off hitting 5th or 6th). He also needs to improve on that .219 avg against lefties and at least get it up to a respectable .240-.250. His power is still there versus lefties as evidenced by his .469 slugging. His eye is also pretty good since he had a .348 OBP vs lefties which is .131 points better than his batting average. If he doesn't improve that .219 avg though, then lefties will be more aggressive against him and he'll likely walk less. If he can tell a ball from a strike against them that should make improving that average a bit easier. The only other thing that jumps out at me about Utley is that his numbers tailed off at the end of the season as he hit .232 and .268 in August and September, respectively. He'd still probably be number 1 guy at second.

Another guy that should be more of a factor in this discussion is Jorge Cantu. He put up some nice numbers as a rookie in 2004 in 158 at-bats (.803 OPS) and followed that up with a 28 homer season (.808 OPS). He has good pop in his bat and doesn't strike out a ton with a decent glove (at second base, at third base he's pretty bad). His plate discipline isn't very good though as he only walked 19 teams and had a .311 OBP. If he can work the count a bit better he could become a big factor (if you don't already consider him one) in Tampa's lineup. Still, 28 homers and 40 doubles from your second basemen is pretty nice. He's also only 24 years old.

[philliesfan980]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

Not trying to sound like too much of a homer, but I'd have to agree that Utley is the best second baseman in the league, offensively speaking. Anyone who says Soriano should really check his home/road splits, and his OBP. While it shouldn't be weighted in too much, his lousy attitude doesn't really help his cause.

Utley does have some work to do in the field however. He really needs to soften his hands a little, and work on his footwork when turning the double play. Rollins is such a great fielder that he's able to overcompensate for Utley's shortcomings in turning the double play. A minor complaint that shouldn't take away from his total package.

Whats most refreshing is his attitude about the game. I've NEVER seen him not run out a ground ball, or give anything less than 100% in a game. I hope that the Phillies organization treats him right, and doesn't sour his attitude. Hopefully they lock him up long term after this year.

[rsox]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

The thing i think a lot of people forget about when criticizing Utley's defense is that he is a Third Baseman playing Second Base. He's only been playing 2B for a few years, give him time.

I don't know if i would call Utley the best Second Baseman in the game-but then i don't know who i would call the best. You could arguably make a case for Placido Polanco. We know Polanco can hit for some power (17 HR's in 2004, 14 the year before that, slowed by injuries last year) and he has a .991 lifetime fielding percentage as a 2B (20 Errors in 2233 total chances), in the five seasons where he has been used primarily at 2B that averages to 4 errors per season.

I'm not trying to say Polanco is the best, i don't think that any one Second Baseman in the league right now stands out to be called the best.

[EaglesFan]

Re: Chase Utley, best second baseman in the game?

Whats most refreshing is his attitude about the game. I've NEVER seen him not run out a ground ball, or give anything less than 100% in a game. I hope that the Phillies organization treats him right, and doesn't sour his attitude. Hopefully they lock him up long term after this year.

I love how he plays and hustles ALL the time.

Polanco?? He's great VS lefties, but very average mostly everywhere else. I hated to see him go, Bell should have gone instead and Polanco to third.